Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Profile Jord
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Message 1687773 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 16:33:54 UTC - in response to Message 1687754.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2015, 16:34:11 UTC

In my various readings about Win10 and the upgrade, I found that when Microsoft first issued the update it was 'Optional'. Since then they changed it to 'Recommended'.

No, it's Optional for Windows 7 and Recommended for Windows 8.1 (source).

For the moment we're not too interested. What we decide to do is check what everyone else will make of it, if it needs patches to get fixed for a majority of the users (and remember, we've always required patches like that in the past), etcetera.

Then prior to any of us updating, I'll make an image of each of the 3 systems we have and store those on the NAS. Then any of us can decide to do the (clean) update, and if we don't like what we see, revert back to the original Win7 image.
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Message 1687777 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 16:38:29 UTC - in response to Message 1687749.  

Unfortunately today having found out that Media Center is being removed I may have to keep at least one PC on Win 7 as no other program works for my USB TV stick, Just tried some others and they are either complicated to set up or for some reason fail to see all the TV channels, Media Center just works. Oh well.

Ever tried MPC-HC? I swear by it for my tv-server.
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Message 1687812 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 18:38:34 UTC - in response to Message 1687773.  

In my various readings about Win10 and the upgrade, I found that when Microsoft first issued the update it was 'Optional'. Since then they changed it to 'Recommended'.

No, it's Optional for Windows 7 and Recommended for Windows 8.1 (source).

-[ snip ]-

Greetings Jord,

Both my PC and laptop have the update KB3035583 installed. Both machines report that the update is 'Recommended'. Here's a link to where I read what I mentioned earlier. :)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
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Message 1687818 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 18:57:17 UTC

After reading these posts, I think I know what I am going to do. I had intended to build a new version of my computer, Piggy. I am saving money for it on one of my credit cards. Intel will be coming out with a new CPU in 2016, which looks very good. I know I am going to make that build with Windows 10. Since I installed my Samsung 850 PRO 1 TB SSD a few months ago, I didn't install everything I wanted, because I knew Windows 10 was coming out.

Since I am not ready financially yet to rebuild Piggy, and the new CPU is still slated for next year, I will go ahead and give the free Windows 10 a spin on my current system. I will just buy the $150 version to be ready for when the new CPU is ready. It is an 8 core extreme version, and I intend to push it very hard. After I finish the build, which will be a new CPU, new motherboard, and new RAM with my existing 1 TB SSD with a clean install of Windows 10, I will spend the time tweaking it for maximum potential. Then, I will look into upgrading my old GTX 480 GPU's. I will water cool the new GPU's also, and start maxing them out.

This way, the freeby Win 10 is nice, and I get experience with it before diving into a new build.

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Message 1687823 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 19:26:59 UTC

For, me, I know the future doesn't go backwards. I am also looking forward to that holographic headset, if they get it perfected. I realize that it works now, but the field of view is very small. I am mentally ready to move forward, both with Windows 10, and new hardware. This old CPU 950, and GTX 480's system is ready for a massive upgrade. I have always wanted the most powerful computer I could build, even long before there ever was a Seti@home. Some people like fast cars, fast motorcycles, and fast women, but I like fast computers.....

Well, fast women aren't to bad either.

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Message 1687824 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 19:41:02 UTC - in response to Message 1687469.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2015, 19:43:10 UTC

OK solved my problem, it appears that you have to have IE 11 before you will get the necessary update.

I never use IE so had not updated from IE 9 on my main or gaming machine, so I installed IE 11 and then went to search for updates, installed them and lo and behold the icon appeared.

So if you are having a problem check you have IE 11 installed and working.

That's an odd way for them to do it. Given there are versions of Windows that ship without IE installed/enabled in the Euro market.

Ah but perhaps the required download was pushed out on its own for those markets.

Or perhaps I was wrong but it worked for me as soon as I installed IE 11 the update appeared, that was on 2 machines.

At work I loaded up an image of a bare Windows 7 SP1 installation. Checked for updates. KB3035583 wasn't listed. Installed IE 11 from our internal archive. Then checked again. KB3035583 was then listed.

EDIT: Also it is an "Optional" update rather than "Important".
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Message 1687841 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 21:17:57 UTC - in response to Message 1687812.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2015, 21:19:21 UTC

Both my PC and laptop have the update KB3035583 installed. Both machines report that the update is 'Recommended'.

I know now what the problem here is, Rick, one of anticipation and perspective. This update shows only in the Optional window, not in the Important window. The update is optional, but apparently one must see from the italics that the text is in, that this is a recommended update. You only see in its description that it is a "recommended update" after choosing it. I expect recommended updates to be in the important window, not in the optional window.




@Grumpy Swede
I will just let that icon sit there, and see how they plan to remove it for those that do not want to upgrade :-)

Easily done, uninstall KB3035583 and the icon goes away.
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Message 1687862 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 22:18:42 UTC - in response to Message 1687749.  

Not sure why you'd want to delete either. If you don't use them, I'm sure you can install a different browser and set it as the default.

If I don't use it I don't want it taking up space on my hard drive, why would anyone keep programs they never use?


Space isn't at a premium anymore. IE takes up a few MB of space, any many of the libraries are required for other stuff.

Unfortunately today having found out that Media Center is being removed I may have to keep at least one PC on Win 7 as no other program works for my USB TV stick, Just tried some others and they are either complicated to set up or for some reason fail to see all the TV channels, Media Center just works. Oh well.


I don't use Media Center much but I had always wanted to use it. I tend to use Kodi (formerly XBMC or X-Box Media Center), though I have had problems with it playing .MKV files. My workaround was to use Handbrake to convert from .MKV to .MP4 and those compatibility issues went away.
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Message 1687863 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 22:20:15 UTC - in response to Message 1687823.  

I have always wanted the most powerful computer I could build, even long before there ever was a Seti@home. Some people like fast cars, fast motorcycles, and fast women, but I like fast computers.....


Same here Steve. :-D I was never much of a gear-head, but I've always like me some shiny silicon!
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Message 1687864 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 22:23:31 UTC - in response to Message 1687863.  

I have always wanted the most powerful computer I could build, even long before there ever was a Seti@home. Some people like fast cars, fast motorcycles, and fast women, but I like fast computers.....


Same here Steve. :-D I was never much of a gear-head, but I've always like me some shiny silicon!

Me too! Even on My budget, but I've needed to work on My house to make this possible and I'm not done yet. Though I am pretty far along on the house and on the PCs.
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Message 1687879 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 23:14:40 UTC

Ever tried MPC-HC? I swear by it for my tv-server.


Now that is looking better, easy to set up and a simple interface that doesn't required a back and front end which many others do.

Will see how it performs.
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Message 1687905 - Posted: 5 Jun 2015, 1:05:31 UTC - in response to Message 1687767.  

Since three of our four Win 7 systems are Home Premium; does anyone know if you can purchase a Win 10 Pro "Upgrade" 3 License Copy??? I really don't want these systems upgrading to Win 10 Home...


TL

If you already have the Home edition why wouldn't you not want to continue with Home edition? You don't have to update to Windows 10 if you don't want to.

Windows 7 Home to Windows 10 Pro with the paid update should work in theory. Depending on if they decide to allow that function.
However the free update path could take your Windows 7 Home to Windows 10 Home. Then the paid update to go from Home to Pro could be applied. The Home to Pro upgrade is supposedly going to be $99. I don't know if they will have volume packs available right away or not.

I don't want Win 10 Home; because, of what people here, and elsewhere, have been stating about it forcing Automatic Updates to be ALWAYS ON. Whereas; the Pro version allows you to still defer updates to do them when you WANT to do them.

Automatic Updates being forced on my dad's two systems will be a NIGHTMARE!!! He hates computers and tech as it is; makes do with them because he has to, and if he's using one of the systems and doing something important to him, having that interrupted by a forced reboot after updating will drive him NUTS!!! ...and, then I won't ever hear the end of it. So, for sanity's sake, I want Pro on ALL of our current Win 7 systems to be upgraded to 10... ;-) :-)


TL
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Message 1687922 - Posted: 5 Jun 2015, 1:47:58 UTC - in response to Message 1687905.  

If you already have the Home edition why wouldn't you not want to continue with Home edition? You don't have to update to Windows 10 if you don't want to.

Windows 7 Home to Windows 10 Pro with the paid update should work in theory. Depending on if they decide to allow that function.
However the free update path could take your Windows 7 Home to Windows 10 Home. Then the paid update to go from Home to Pro could be applied. The Home to Pro upgrade is supposedly going to be $99. I don't know if they will have volume packs available right away or not.

I don't want Win 10 Home; because, of what people here, and elsewhere, have been stating about it forcing Automatic Updates to be ALWAYS ON. Whereas; the Pro version allows you to still defer updates to do them when you WANT to do them.

Automatic Updates being forced on my dad's two systems will be a NIGHTMARE!!! He hates computers and tech as it is; makes do with them because he has to, and if he's using one of the systems and doing something important to him, having that interrupted by a forced reboot after updating will drive him NUTS!!! ...and, then I won't ever hear the end of it. So, for sanity's sake, I want Pro on ALL of our current Win 7 systems to be upgraded to 10... ;-) :-)


TL


After playing around with the Windows 10 Technical Preview for a while now, I can tell you that Windows Updates don't interrupt your daily workflow, even when set to Automatic. I doesn't nag you like Windows XP or 7 does, or just suddenly restart your machine. It will actually wait until you're not using the machine to restart it. I've never had any open programs while this has happened to know if it ruins any unsaved applications.

On the whole, I don't think the automatic updates are going to be as intrusive as many seem to think. Of course, I can see for crunchers who utilize their GPUs to crunch won't want their machines sitting idle at the login screen because of a restart, but for most people it shouldn't really be an issue.

That being said, if you really want to go Pro, your cheapest route is very likely going to be to upgrade Windows 7 Home to Windows 10 Home for free, then immediately after upgrade from 10 Home to Pro for $99. Upgrading 3 machines this way will only cost you $297, whereas buying the Windows 10 Pro OEM is going to cost you $449.97 @ $149.99 ea. I don't think a Windows 10 Pro 3-pack is going to be much cheaper than that.
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Message 1687943 - Posted: 5 Jun 2015, 3:19:13 UTC - in response to Message 1687922.  

Hi OzzFan,


After playing around with the Windows 10 Technical Preview for a while now, I can tell you that Windows Updates don't interrupt your daily workflow, even when set to Automatic. I doesn't nag you like Windows XP or 7 does, or just suddenly restart your machine. It will actually wait until you're not using the machine to restart it. I've never had any open programs while this has happened to know if it ruins any unsaved applications.

On the whole, I don't think the automatic updates are going to be as intrusive as many seem to think. Of course, I can see for crunchers who utilize their GPUs to crunch won't want their machines sitting idle at the login screen because of a restart, but for most people it shouldn't really be an issue.

That being said, if you really want to go Pro, your cheapest route is very likely going to be to upgrade Windows 7 Home to Windows 10 Home for free, then immediately after upgrade from 10 Home to Pro for $99. Upgrading 3 machines this way will only cost you $297, whereas buying the Windows 10 Pro OEM is going to cost you $449.97 @ $149.99 ea. I don't think a Windows 10 Pro 3-pack is going to be much cheaper than that.


IMO The problem with forced updates isn't rebooting, it crap video or other hardware drivers, being installed and causing problems, AFAIR Win10 has already had a duff set of NV drivers put through autoupdate, which screwd up the testers rig.

And he had mega probs backing out of the duff driver.

And that concerns me since I'm running 4 projects here that rely on my GPU's working properly.

That said my upgrade would be pro, since I'm running Win7 Ult as it stands, still I'd like to be darned sure I could stop update installing a defunct driver not just postpone its installation.

Anyone know if it will be possible to hide a duff driver update as one can at present?

Or even if you will get to see in advance what updates are being issued? In order to avoid such problems.

Regards,
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Message 1687966 - Posted: 5 Jun 2015, 5:09:00 UTC

I think I already wrote that here somewhere: On the technical preview you could simply change an option in group policies and get the full functionality of Windows Update back. I'm pretty sure it's the same on the final version. And if not, then ppl will find another way to disable automatic updates. Yes, most regular users will prefer automatic updates, but every nerd hates it and nerds always find a way to change things the way they wanna have it ;-)
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Message 1688118 - Posted: 5 Jun 2015, 14:11:34 UTC - in response to Message 1687966.  

I think I already wrote that here somewhere: On the technical preview you could simply change an option in group policies and get the full functionality of Windows Update back. I'm pretty sure it's the same on the final version. And if not, then ppl will find another way to disable automatic updates. Yes, most regular users will prefer automatic updates, but every nerd hates it and nerds always find a way to change things the way they wanna have it ;-)

I haven't read what anyone was doing with that previously. However when I tried it on my own it didn't really work. I could only disable updates from happening. That was in an older release & I haven't messed with it since.
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Message 1688128 - Posted: 5 Jun 2015, 14:38:32 UTC - in response to Message 1687943.  

Hi OzzFan,

IMO The problem with forced updates isn't rebooting, it crap video or other hardware drivers, being installed and causing problems, AFAIR Win10 has already had a duff set of NV drivers put through autoupdate, which screwd up the testers rig.

And he had mega probs backing out of the duff driver.

And that concerns me since I'm running 4 projects here that rely on my GPU's working properly.

That said my upgrade would be pro, since I'm running Win7 Ult as it stands, still I'd like to be darned sure I could stop update installing a defunct driver not just postpone its installation.


Agreed and understood.

Anyone know if it will be possible to hide a duff driver update as one can at present?

Or even if you will get to see in advance what updates are being issued? In order to avoid such problems.


I would be hesitant to give you a definitive answer while the product is still in a non-finalized state, but I'm sure once Windows 10 is released someone will be able to tell you for sure. Anything can change between now and then.

(I'm fairly certain the registry hacks to turn off driver updates will still work on Windows 10 as they did on Windows 7 & 8.)
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Message 1688185 - Posted: 5 Jun 2015, 17:05:14 UTC - in response to Message 1687697.  

Not only that, but Win10 will no longer have IE. They are coming out with an all new browser... :\ I forget the name off hand...


No, Windows 10 will still include Internet Explorer for compatibility's sake, but no new features will be added to it.

The new browser is called Microsoft Edge (named after the rendering engine). It was called Spartan while in development.

I'm about 95% sure they called it Edge so they wouldn't have to design a new logo.

It is called "Edge", and the icon for it still has a big "E" on it, but the background shape has been changed slightly to reflect the change.

Cheers.

Well it is a "new" logo, but it really just looks like a new version of the IE logo to me.


I would imagine keeping the icons similar would also be beneficial to all the non-savvy PC users who only know they get to the internet on their computer by double-clicking on the E icon.


Reminiscent of the migration from Death Star I to Death Star II. New look...same service (or lack thereof).


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Message 1688204 - Posted: 5 Jun 2015, 17:43:58 UTC - in response to Message 1688118.  

I think I already wrote that here somewhere: On the technical preview you could simply change an option in group policies and get the full functionality of Windows Update back. I'm pretty sure it's the same on the final version. And if not, then ppl will find another way to disable automatic updates. Yes, most regular users will prefer automatic updates, but every nerd hates it and nerds always find a way to change things the way they wanna have it ;-)

I haven't read what anyone was doing with that previously. However when I tried it on my own it didn't really work. I could only disable updates from happening. That was in an older release & I haven't messed with it since.

When I tested it, I was able to get the full functionality of windows update back. That means that I was able to choose between automatic updates, manual updates (notify me when updates are available) or no updates at all.
I achived this by changing some option with the group policy editor. It looks like MS tried to block this in later builds, but, as usual, ppl soon discovered a way to pass this block:
https://4sysops.com/archives/turn-off-automatic-updates-in-windows-10-build-9926/

I don't know if this all still works or if MS again found a way to block this. But if so, ppl will strike back and find a new way again.
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Message 1688214 - Posted: 5 Jun 2015, 18:01:00 UTC - in response to Message 1688204.  

I think I already wrote that here somewhere: On the technical preview you could simply change an option in group policies and get the full functionality of Windows Update back. I'm pretty sure it's the same on the final version. And if not, then ppl will find another way to disable automatic updates. Yes, most regular users will prefer automatic updates, but every nerd hates it and nerds always find a way to change things the way they wanna have it ;-)

I haven't read what anyone was doing with that previously. However when I tried it on my own it didn't really work. I could only disable updates from happening. That was in an older release & I haven't messed with it since.

When I tested it, I was able to get the full functionality of windows update back. That means that I was able to choose between automatic updates, manual updates (notify me when updates are available) or no updates at all.
I achived this by changing some option with the group policy editor. It looks like MS tried to block this in later builds, but, as usual, ppl soon discovered a way to pass this block:
https://4sysops.com/archives/turn-off-automatic-updates-in-windows-10-build-9926/

I don't know if this all still works or if MS again found a way to block this. But if so, ppl will strike back and find a new way again.

I was only changing the settings via group policy. The only option I found to work there was "disable". The one to restore the control panel applet would be best if it still works in build 10130. Maybe I'll play with it over the weekend.
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