Message boards :
Number crunching :
Do we have a Boinc virus?
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Author | Message |
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Darth Dogbytes™ Send message Joined: 30 Jul 03 Posts: 7512 Credit: 2,021,148 RAC: 0 |
so lets all just wait and see what happens. Something will turn up. Exactly. Account frozen... |
Michael Send message Joined: 21 Aug 99 Posts: 4608 Credit: 7,427,891 RAC: 18 |
I say terminate the account and let me have the credits. *evil grin* |
Jack Gulley Send message Joined: 4 Mar 03 Posts: 423 Credit: 526,566 RAC: 0 |
If the account owner has done nothing and has nothing to hide, he would remove the "hidden" status of his systems. Then all could see how many he has. And he could point out the one or two that do not belong to him. I am sure as a major team leader he would notice a large number of systems reporting to his account if he did not own that many, and do something about it. (Not just start his own new team.) By tracking IP addresses of connections for this account, it would not be too hard to tell which belong to his location/ISP, and which are from infected systems. Only then will they know how wide spread the problem is. |
kevint Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 414 Credit: 11,680,240 RAC: 0 |
Very interesting ... quite an exploit ... :( If true - he should be a candidate for total credit =0 and all team credits he has generated so far - including team credits while he was crunching for Germany - No offense team Germany. As this unfolds it will be interesting for sure! |
kevint Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 414 Credit: 11,680,240 RAC: 0 |
If someone maliciously used Carstens' account, I wonder how they got his "key" and/or password? If someone did - Carsten would know about it - he would see his credit and notice that something is not right - wouldnt he then contact Berkley and try to find out what is going on ? |
[SETI.USA] OneChicken Send message Joined: 3 Apr 04 Posts: 70 Credit: 906,887 RAC: 0 |
From Trux:
I totally agree with Trux's statement. Whether he was installing SETI or trying to steal information from a computer, this is a criminal act and needs to be dealt with as one. At the very least, this alleged-virus-planting-user is guilty of knowing that this was going on and doing nothing about it. If my RAC started to rise like that and there were strange hosts on my list I would definitely notify someone @ Berkeley... Proud member of SETI.USA |
Webmaster Yoda Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 52 Credit: 500,125 RAC: 0 |
All speculation... So here's a bit more. He claims he doesn't know how to write a virus and we have no proof that he can or has done so. Still, Google his name and observe the interests/skills someone with the same name appears to have. Proves nothing, but it's interesting. While from the project's point of view I guess these hosts are helping, if SETI is running on them without the owner's knowledge and consent (as appears to be the case with the initial report), it would be a violation of the rules, by the person who installed it or caused it to be installed. I'm sure BOINC/SETI would not want to be a knowing party to, or beneficiary of illegal/criminal activity, if that's what this turns out to be. At any rate, Matt says he's looking into it. Let's leave it to him and see what happens. Meanwhile, keep crunching, people! [edit] P.S. If someone else did this, Carsten would only know about it if he looked at his stats, which not everybody does. [/edit] *** Join the #1 Aussie Alliance on SETI *** |
Misfit Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0 |
I just got off the phone with Rom Walton, one of the Berkeley Devs. He informed me that they (SSL/project devs) are aware of this situation, and that they are currently investigating it. It will be given their full attention. The Devs have phones? Your donations at work! ;) |
trux Send message Joined: 6 Feb 01 Posts: 344 Credit: 1,127,051 RAC: 0 |
P.S. If someone else did this, Carsten would only know about it if he looked at his stats, which not everybody does.He definitely does - he changed the team from SETI Germany to his own one just few days ago. When doing it, you definitely have to pass through your account, where it is inavoidable that you see your RAC and your total credit. Well, now we can speculate that he has 1000 own hosts, and just this single and only stolen one - in that case you are certainly right - he would not notice the difference. However, I'd rather speculate the ratio is rather in the opposite way. Still only speculations. Hope we see the truth soon. trux BOINC software Freediving Team Czech Republic |
thepossum1 Send message Joined: 15 Apr 00 Posts: 106 Credit: 213,585 RAC: 0 |
P.S. If someone else did this, Carsten would only know about it if he looked at his stats, which not everybody does.He definitely does - he changed the team from SETI Germany to his own one just few days ago. When doing it, you definitely have to pass through your account, where it is inavoidable that you see your RAC and your total credit. Well, now we can speculate that he has 1000 own hosts, and just this single and only stolen one - in that case you are certainly right - he would not notice the difference. However, I'd rather speculate the ratio is rather in the opposite way. Still only speculations. Hope we see the truth soon. Oh, I'd say he DEFINTELY is interested in stats and knows very well what his are. The following is from the forum on Seti.Germany's site: Autor Thread "schlechte Team-Statistik: deutsche Teams" |
Jon C Melusky Send message Joined: 13 Dec 00 Posts: 13 Credit: 1,611,366 RAC: 0 |
He wrote he did not know how to write viruses. I wrote I'd be very interested in his opinion and explanation, since I assume he had to see the RAC increase. I am just afraid he won't answer anymore. I am temped to call him, but again, I am no official BOINC representant, and it is not my business to make any such investigation. Hmmmmm... I don't think anyone smart enough to put BOINC on other people's computers with a virus would leave any trace of their own ID number. But they could be smart in some ways and not in others. But I wonder if such a person would create it to benefit BOINC, but not realize that it hurts BOINC when this is found out eventually ? Or perhaps the person who benefits from the virus has Jonathan |
Lazy2 Send message Joined: 4 Sep 00 Posts: 14 Credit: 23,552,278 RAC: 0 |
So far I have read a lot of speculation with no validation. There are a lot of great theories but nothing to really quantify any drastic measures. As earlier stated the best thing to do at this time would be to wait and see what the people at Berkeley come up with. It should be interesting. This is only a test... |
DrBob Send message Joined: 27 Sep 99 Posts: 37 Credit: 10,712,463 RAC: 0 |
So far I have read a lot of speculation with no validation. There are a lot of great theories but nothing to really quantify any drastic measures. As earlier stated the best thing to do at this time would be to wait and see what the people at Berkeley come up with. It should be interesting. I agree with you Lazy. |
Jon C Melusky Send message Joined: 13 Dec 00 Posts: 13 Credit: 1,611,366 RAC: 0 |
[quote] This thread is already no doubt being indexed by Google. Don't expect someone using the search words 'BOINC virus' to bother with the tiny detail of reading the text, a match will be enough to prove the case. FYI, "boinc virus" search with google brings up 69 results. But it only shows 11 as the others are repeats or too similar webpages according to google search parameters. Most of the 11 are from April 2005 or August 2004. This thread is not yet indexed by google. Hey now it is indexed ! Luckily I rechecked google just now and I am still in time to edit this post before the 60 minute time window closed editing. (^: Ok so google has 71 results now. Jonathan |
Pepo Send message Joined: 5 Aug 99 Posts: 308 Credit: 418,019 RAC: 0 |
Oh, I'd say he DEFINTELY is interested in stats and knows very well what his are. The following is from the forum on Seti.Germany's site: (shortened) "On our company's servers we have only one account, but we collected over 6 million Credits during the year...." My question would be: do Carsten's computers use IPs mostly from some IP range (ideally belonging to ESC-Consult), or are they semi-randomly placed over the internet? Should not be a problem to check. Peter |
Gone thanks to mmciastro Send message Joined: 30 Jun 99 Posts: 51 Credit: 112,892 RAC: 0 |
According to BOINCstats Carsten has got 13 hosts. So with an RAC of 120.000+ these have to be powerful machines at the upper range of what is available today. It would not make any sense to capture single machines unless they are very powerful too as slow PCs would not add to that RAC considerably. But such powerful machines tend to be administrated by very skilled persons who would get to the fraud in a minute. Replaced system files like the wupdmgr.exe would hardly go unheeded. This sounds all too fishy to be a case of fraud by the account owner himself. I would rather expect a single and very bad joke, which fits with the number of 13 hosts; there surely will not be half a dozen captured average PCs among them as the supposed culprit would then have to have 6 or 7 own machines getting an RAC of 20.000 each, whew! With that crunching power, who needs to cheat for keeps of some hundred or even one or two thousand RAC? Regards, Christoph "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." R.M. Nixon |
thepossum1 Send message Joined: 15 Apr 00 Posts: 106 Credit: 213,585 RAC: 0 |
According to BOINCstats Carsten has got 13 hosts.<snip> The list may say 13 hosts, but if you click through to host stats, there are zero hosts listed. HOST STATS Again, this is all circumstantial "evidence" and Berkeley is investigating and will take appropriate action. It's sad that something like this ever happens because it does put BOINC/Seti in a bad light even if it's not any of their doing. |
Ananas Send message Joined: 14 Dec 01 Posts: 195 Credit: 2,503,252 RAC: 0 |
The list may say 13 hosts, but if you click through to host stats, there are zero hosts listed. BOINC 4.19 maybe? I guess BOINCstats needs the cross project host ID, 4.19 doesn't have that. My hosts aren't listed at BOINCstats either and I am using CC 4.19 p.s.: I agree with Hans Dorn, a businessman would never risk to have a virus linked to his business in any way. |
Toby Send message Joined: 26 Oct 00 Posts: 1005 Credit: 6,366,949 RAC: 0 |
I don't know where you all are getting this "13 hosts" from but it is not correct. 13 hosts could not produce that kind of RAC. Look at the top computers page. The biggest, baddest, fastest, most optimized host currently working for seti has a RAC of under 4,000. 4,000 * 13 = 52,000 - not even close. And even "hidden" hosts show up on that page, they just don't list who the owner is. A member of The Knights Who Say NI! For rankings, history graphs and more, check out: My BOINC stats site |
Daniel Schaalma Send message Joined: 28 May 99 Posts: 297 Credit: 16,953,703 RAC: 0 |
According to BOINCstats Carsten has got 13 hosts.<snip> It could be too, that he has merged a great many of the hosts, and may even set the unsuspecting hosts to use his network as a proxy server to make it appear as though all hosts are coming from the same network. But, again, this is all speculation, and I will not rush to judgement as I do not have all the facts and evidence. UCB is investigating, and I will defer to their findings in this matter. I would find it hard to believe that a business executive would put so much at risk for what? the #2 position on the S@H leaderboard? I would find it easier to believe that a disgruntled employee or customer would do something like this. Since it is being investigated by UCB, we should all just relax and wait to see what happens. Regards, Daniel. |
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