For the moment the Netherlands has skipped the winter entirely. Temperatures have not dropped below zero degrees Celcius. It has been continuously sunny with temperatures around 10 degrees.

I bet that the winter will hit us in March/April. And then May will be summer. And then from June to August it will be Autumnish, with periods of summer. Than September will be summer again and half October it will get autumn again.

If any country has shown itself capable of dealing with excess water, it's the Netherlands.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

If any country has shown itself capable of dealing with excess water, it's the Netherlands.

Oh yeah, its not the water I'm worried about. I am however worried if this spring weather continues, trees and flowers will start to bloom at the end of February, start of March and when the cold suddenly comes in it damages or kills a lot of plants. Its just bad news for nature when the seasons are in total chaos.

Rate of ocean acidification due to carbon emissions is at highest for 300m years

People in London may not be aware of the current collapse of Ocean ecosystems, but they are certainly aware over here.

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Reality Internet Personality

I now live in a part of the world that can directly see the consequences of global warming.

The glaciers are disappearing. Most of the drinking water comes from glaciers so this is a concern. Whole forests are dying of mountain pine beatle infestations because the winters are no longer long enough and cold enough to kill them off.

Further North the polar bears are leaving the Artic because the snows are melting sooner each year and are mating with grizzly bears and wondering into towns. The permafrost is melting and houses are slowly sinking into the ground. Ocean eco systems are collapsing because of the Carbon dioxide that has been absorbed by the seas. This is happening near where I live. Its not imaginary or made up.

The US is planning new shipping routes through the now open sea up by the North Pole. Canada is now laying a claim to those Oceans that were before always frozen.

So anyone living up in the far north of the planet can totally see the effects of climate change. I am sorry its boring some of you. I guess it will become more interesting as drought struck areas in America can no longer produce food. The price of bread is already going up for us.

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Reality Internet Personality

Discussion about global warming or cooling, climate change and extreme weather are just ways to avoid discussing the true problem that no one will talk about or even acknowledge. I bring it up and within two or three posts it has vanished from the discussion. Again, all the problems that have been the subject of discussion can be linked directly to human over population. Supplying the ever increasing human population with the food, clothing, housing and other things it needs to survive is pushing the planet's ability to provide those needs. We could easily thrive using current technologies if the population had leveled out at the one billion mark, maybe even two. But at seven billion and growing mankind is running out of time and space.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

... Half a degree is NOT the end of the world, neither is a centimetre or rise in sea level over the past 100 years. ...

Well...

Change the thermostat in an office space by just one degree C and just wait for the soon to arrive complaints!

For the comfort in your room, such as yourself may not be bothered by a few degrees change. However, out in the real world, a change of 0.5 deg C average means the difference between Bangladesh existing or being completely under water.

Yes: The thermal expansion of an ocean as huge as we have across out planet WILL expand by enough to permanent flood areas where people have lived for thousands of years.


Next?

All on our only one planet,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Yes: The thermal expansion of an ocean as huge

It's nothing to do with thermal expansion, it's to do with the volume of water if ice melts.

No, its a combination of the two. Thermal expansion is a pretty large factor.

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Reality Internet Personality

Concorde grew one foot whilst in flight, it was quite hot though.

Based on some figures i found, coefficient of expansion of salt water = 1.5*10^-4/C, ocean area of 361m km^2, ocean volume of 1.3b km^3.
However, surface temperature only really affects the top 10% of the water, so we can call the volume 130m km^3
A 1 degree rise will give a volume increase of 130m*1.5*10^-4 = 19.5k km^3
19.5k km^3 over an area of 361m km^2 is a depth of 5.4*10^-5 km
Ergo, 5.4cm per degree Celsius.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

I have heard that in summer the worlds largest cruise ship is SUPPOSED to lengthen by 6"?

running the numbers with 60 deg F temp rise and 1181 ft long I get 5.95 inches

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If The Rain Will Not Drop on the Drought Stricken Areas, then, 'it' 'is' time to Bring The Rain Drops to the Drought Stricken Areas.

I Know How To Do 'it' and Stop The Drought Damage.

Waiting for the Brainiacs of The World to Step Up to 'It' and The Money Men to Finance 'it'.

C'mon Brains and Money, Get 'it' Going. Quit Wasting Trillions on Climate Change and GET THE FRAKKIN' WATER to where 'it' is NEEDED.

Water. No Biggie.

' '

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Concorde grew one foot whilst in flight, it was quite hot though.

I was told 6" when I went on the "Concorde Experience" last year at Brooklands.

Ergo, 5.4cm per degree Celsius.

Who is going to notice 2" when tides can rise and fall 10 feet all day long?

Not everywhere has such extreme tides, but you will notice that increase. It will affect the water table and cause erosion. You might get salt water flooding marsh lands and destroying those ecosystems. Add to that the sea rise caused by the melting icecaps. It will also depend on whether the land mass you are on is sinking or rising. The British Isles are still bouncing back from the Ice Age, so perhaps the effect won't be so bad. However places like Bangladesh and the Philippines are already in deep trouble.

This map shows why the Philippines is so vulnerable to climate change

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Reality Internet Personality

Discussion about global warming or cooling, climate change and extreme weather are just ways to avoid discussing the true problem that no one will talk about or even acknowledge. I bring it up and within two or three posts it has vanished from the discussion. Again, all the problems that have been the subject of discussion can be linked directly to human over population. Supplying the ever increasing human population with the food, clothing, housing and other things it needs to survive is pushing the planet's ability to provide those needs. We could easily thrive using current technologies if the population had leveled out at the one billion mark, maybe even two. But at seven billion and growing mankind is running out of time and space.

Nonsense. The world can easily sustain a population of 11 billion. The problem is not over population, the problem is the incredibly inefficient use of resources thanks to capitalism. Turns out that everyone trying to make a profit is not so good for the vast majority of people.

The reason food prices go up is also not climate change (not yet). Its linked to oil prices and the fact that the US prefers to turn its food into biofuels while the EU is slowly decreasing the support for its farmers, which results in decreased food production (all because the free market is supposedly good for us). It also doesn't help that Africa suffers from droughts and has one of the most inefficient agricultural sectors in the world. Years of underinvestment and idiotic government policies now result in an agricultural sector there that is completely worthless.

On top of that, we have the technology to significantly reduce our energy needs, dependency on oil as fuel, and the climate for food production. A problem here is that all people in position to change this are spineless idiots who lack vision or the will to pursue such a vision. So nobody invests in these things...for now. Eventually that will change as well.

Besides, even if over population is a problem, there is nothing you can do about it. The population growth is centered in developing continents, and you can't just line 2 billion people against the wall and shoot them. All methods for population reduction range from the unethical to the downright genocidal.

Is this where patience is wearing thin enough for politics to get real?


Sack all Cabinet climate change sceptics, say the Greens in 'quasi-fascist' policy

CLIMATE change sceptics in the Cabinet should be sacked to show the Government is serious about tackling extreme weather events such as the recent flooding, the Greens said today.

... Other proposals include an end to the "revolving door between the fossil fuel industry and government" and a demand the Government pays more attention "to advice from the Met Office and the Climate Change Committee that climate change will lead to even more such events in the future."...

... She added: "We aren't talking about what colour we should paint a room, we are talking about something that really affects all our futures...

...In a speech to the Institute for Public Policy Research think-tank, he said political opposition to tackling climate change showed a "wilfully ignorant, head in the sand, nimby-ist conservatism".

Such attitudes combined with the entrenched euroscepticism of some Conservatives are creating a "diabolical cocktail" which could undermine efforts to achieve international agreement...



So... More a problem of Politics and Fossil Fuels industry lobbying (and corruption?) rather than anything to do with science or our technology...

Diverting all the subsidies away from the Fossils to instead help non-polluting existing-tech and new tech would be a good start to going clean. That may even save our future for life as we know it.



All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Hmmm. Shouldn't this post be in the "Censoring" thread ?

We don't like what you say, therefore you should be prevented from saying it. (And of course we say this with only the best of intentions.)

I get the feeling that warmists would quite happily accept the CO2 emissions to see sceptics burnt at the stake

Bah, Humbug !!!

T.A.

Hmmm. Shouldn't this post be in the "Censoring" thread ?

We don't like what you say, therefore you should be prevented from saying it. (And of course we say this with only the best of intentions.)

I get the feeling that warmists would quite happily accept the CO2 emissions to see sceptics burnt at the stake

Bah, Humbug !!!

T.A.

I think they can say what they want, but if they are given positions of authority they are downright dangerous and should be removed.

You wouldn't allow a doctor to continue practicing if they believed that illness was caused by bad humors and insisted on using leeches on everyone. Climate skeptics are far more dangerous.

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Reality Internet Personality

I think they can say what they want, but if they are given positions of authority they are downright dangerous and should be removed.

You wouldn't allow a doctor to continue practicing if they believed that illness was caused by bad humors and insisted on using leeches on everyone. Climate skeptics are far more dangerous.

I liked the proposal to from now on name Hurricanes after politicians that deny climate change. Time to create a mental link between those people and the devastation they bring.

Whats wrong with being a skeptic? I think thats a hell of a lot better position to be than a denialist. A doctor whos belives in bad humor and uses leaches is a quack not a skeptic.

Im a skeptic when it comes to claims that big foot is real, But I will keep an open mind.

Im leaning toward climate change, But Im still skecptical of all the claims made by some of the hacks out there. And that goes for both sides of the issue.

To me the dangerous people out there are the ones who dont even want to discuss the issue.

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[/quote]

Old James

I think they can say what they want, but if they are given positions of authority they are downright dangerous and should be removed.

You wouldn't allow a doctor to continue practicing if they believed that illness was caused by bad humors and insisted on using leeches on everyone. Climate skeptics are far more dangerous.

Agreed.

For anyone in a position of authority/responsibility, can they be charged for arrest if they act fraudulently/irresponsibly?...

I liked the proposal to from now on name Hurricanes after politicians that deny climate change. Time to create a mental link between those people and the devastation they bring.

Now that's a good move to combat some of the denialist politics we are seeing!


All on our only planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Whats wrong with being a skeptic? I think thats a hell of a lot better position to be than a denialist. ...

Unfortunately, 'skeptic' has been too badly abused by denialists and so has lost its original meaning. Just as "challenging" is now a euphemism for when the description "difficult" should be used.

Im a skeptic when it comes to claims that big foot is real, But I will keep an open mind.

Well, the American "Big Foot" was long ago discredited as some backwoods loon in a furry suit with two handbags on his chest who (complicitly?) duped a TV crew into broadcasting a silly episode. A few years later, he got arrested for annoying tourists to the area with his monkey business!

The various other Big Foots have all turned out to be bears when real.

And then there's the mechanical marvel crushing smaller cars at motor shows... :-P

Im leaning toward climate change, But Im still skecptical of all the claims made by some of the hacks out there. And that goes for both sides of the issue.

Is that then a softening of "It can't possibly be so" to something like "oh it doesn't matter"?

All the extreme media noise and rhetoric and the amazing Fossil Fuels industry sponsored FUD shows that this is all a prime issue for industry and our world. And urgently so...

To me the dangerous people out there are the ones who dont even want to discuss the issue.

Even more dangerous are those that pretend to discuss but instead do nothing more than spread yet more FUD and procrastination.


NEVER before have scientists so clearly agreed the blindingly obvious that our industry is directly polluting our atmosphere to an ever greater climate catastrophe.

Or how else should we describe something so serious and immediate?


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Ah, I see. Because we disagree we need removed and our right to free speech on the world stage denied. Only one voice, your voice should be allowed.

You prove the point that your science is so weak that you need to government gun to back it up....

...this means you are wrong.

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Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...