There was another item I came across recently pertaining to remediation methods for global warming.

Someone propsed a possible solution would be to create "artificial" volcanoes, and spew massive amounts of sulfur into the stratosphere to increase albedo and thus lower temperatures.

I remember thinking, "Yeah great idea, aggravate acid rain to reduce global warming. Why are we spending money to remove sulfur from fossil fuels then?".

I almost soiled myself I was laughing so hard. ;-)

Alinator

There was another item I came across recently pertaining to remediation methods for global warming.

Someone propsed a possible solution would be to create "artificial" volcanoes, and spew massive amounts of sulfur into the stratosphere to increase albedo and thus lower temperatures.

I remember thinking, "Yeah great idea, aggravate acid rain to reduce global warming. Why are we spending money to remove sulfur from fossil fuels then?".

I almost soiled myself I was laughing so hard. ;-)

Alinator

Perfectly logical solution. But that doesn't mean that it's a very bright solution....lmao

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

There was another item I came across recently pertaining to remediation methods for global warming.

Someone propsed a possible solution would be to create "artificial" volcanoes, and spew massive amounts of sulfur into the stratosphere to increase albedo and thus lower temperatures.

I remember thinking, "Yeah great idea, aggravate acid rain to reduce global warming. Why are we spending money to remove sulfur from fossil fuels then?".

I almost soiled myself I was laughing so hard. ;-)

Alinator

Perfectly logical solution. But that doesn't mean that it's a very bright solution....lmao

Yeah...What if Krakatoa goes off for real on it's own?...Then we'd be back to the ice age.

---

PROUD TO BE TFFE!

Yeah...What if Krakatoa goes off for real on it's own?...Then we'd be back to the ice age.

Even more worrying, what about this Yellowstone Park "Super" one they are talking about?

With that one you'd get volcanic Armageddon.

---

PROUD TO BE TFFE!

There was a very good documentary the other night on digital, a repeat from the original on 8th March.
It was a real eye-opener for anyone who believes that the argument over global warming is settled. Far from it, it seems. If anything scientists tend to disagree about this phenomenom, arguing that global warming is not necessarily the activity of human beings but may instead be more due to the sun's activity. If the sun throws out more heat this may cause an increase in CO2 in the atmosphere apparently.
Anyway, try to find the programme if you're interested. This is real kick-in-the-teeth stuff for anyone who believes what the politicians say. Not to be missed.

'The Great Global Warming Swindle.' Channel 4. Shown 8th March, 9pm. (Sorry about the belated news.)

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/index.html

Facts about the solar system that MAY have an effect on global warming...

1) The Sun does NOT output a constant flow of energy. It is, in fact, mildly variable, having a period of some 76 years, during which it expands and contracts. At maximum size, the sun is cooler. Combined with the 11 year sunspot cycle, which is known to cause dramatic meteorlogical events, and we have a major effect on global weather.

2) Earth does not have a constant orbit. It has a slightly eccentric orbit, such that it's distance from the sun in any given part of the orbit is not exactly the same as the last time it was in that part of the orbit. (I hope that makes sense)

Having said that, there can be no doubt that human interference with the balance of life on Earth has had a direct influence on climate.

Earth has natural ways of coping with climate change, and atmospheric carbon fluctations.

Thus, as the atmosphere warms, the polar ice caps melt, absorbing heat in the process. There is an effect that melting substances require energy to melt, even if the actual temperature does not change. Water can exist at zero degs Celcius as a liquid or as a solid. The energy required to change state from solid to liquid is called "latent heat of fusion". Thus, when we see the polar ice caps disappearing, it is a natural phenomenon, and is actually helping to reduce the atmospheric heating.

It has been shown that increasing the concentration of Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere increases the rate of growth in plants, including trees. This is because plants use carbon dioxide as a base to synthesise long chain organic compounds to grow. Therefore, as carbon dioxide levels increase, vegetation responds by growing faster. Once the excess has been dealt with (who knows how long it could take?) the available vegetation will reduce growth rates to match supplies.

However, man's interference with these natural cycles has been to reduce the quantity of vegetation to such an extent that it cannot keep up with the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Thus, we enter a spiral.

Added effects of global warming:

1) Warmer air has the capacity to hold more moisture than cooler air. Thus, while relative humidity climbs, rainfall reduces, since the threshold level at which precipitation can occur rises. Plant life struggles to survive without water, and begins to die off, adding to the spiral.

2) Increased melting occurs at the polar ice caps, altering the circulation of currents in the oceans. A perfect example of what this does happened on Xmas day, 2006. Cold currents in the Southern Ocean (due to polar ice melt in the Antarctic) caused SNOWFALLS in Melbourne and Adelaide in the Australian MIDSUMMER!

I can remember hearing about "future world warming" when I was in Primary School, about 40 years ago. The idea was dismissed as "fantastic and alarmist rubbish" or words to that effect.

What can we do about it?

1) Reduce carbon dioxide production by the use of cleaner energy. (Solar, wind, nuclear, etc)

2) Absorb more sunlight on the surface by halting the clearance of forests.

3) Absorb more sunlight by the compulsory installation of solar power systems in all buildings. (This also reduces carbon emissions)

4) PLANT SOME FORESTS in areas which have been "desertified" by human activity. In Australia, we pour billions of litres a DAY into the ocean, used to dilute sewage! The compounds contained in this "grey water" are good fertilisers, and pure poison to marine life. Use of grey water in "re-greening" the deserts we have created would be expensive, but in the long run, would be economically beneficial in may ways.

There are many more ways of helping our environment. One of the best I can think of is making it expensively illegal to leave lights on in unoccupied offices and other commercial premises, as presently happens.

Any comments, people?

---

---SNIP--

There are many more ways of helping our environment. One of the best I can think of is making it expensively illegal to leave lights on in unoccupied offices and other commercial premises, as presently happens.

Any comments, people?

As mentioned by MACGIRL, take an hour out of your hectic schedule and take a look at the below video for a position on global warming that is based on a theory with matching evidence/data rather than 'just a theory'.

According to a group of scientists brought together by documentary-maker Martin Durkin, if the planet is heating up, it isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do about it.

We've almost begun to take it for granted that climate change is a man-made phenomenon. But just as the environmental lobby think they've got our attention, a group of naysayers have emerged to slay the whole premise of global warming.

The Great Global Warming Swindle

---

Belief gets in the way of learning

---SNIP--

There are many more ways of helping our environment. One of the best I can think of is making it expensively illegal to leave lights on in unoccupied offices and other commercial premises, as presently happens.

Any comments, people?

As mentioned by MACGIRL, take an hour out of your hectic schedule and take a look at the below video for a position on global warming that is based on a theory with matching evidence/data rather than 'just a theory'.

According to a group of scientists brought together by documentary-maker Martin Durkin, if the planet is heating up, it isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do about it.

We've almost begun to take it for granted that climate change is a man-made phenomenon. But just as the environmental lobby think they've got our attention, a group of naysayers have emerged to slay the whole premise of global warming.

The Great Global Warming Swindle

Hi Enigma

As I said in my post: there are outside, natural influences that MAY have an effect on global climate. As I mentioned, the Earth has developed mechanisms to counter such influences, except in the most extreme of circumstances.

Global warming and cooling have occurred many times in the past. (Ice ages, etc) This is not in doubt.

Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are known to be rising. These levels have been measured. This is, then, a known fact. Excess carbon dioxide results in faster growth in vegetation. Again, a known fact. This allows nature to mop up the excess. However, the annual removal of millions of hectares of vegetation to make room for carbon dioxide exhaling machinery interferes with this natural process, and it is no longer able to keep pace.

Since man-created machines are pumping carbon dioxide and other gases into the atmosphere that are of un-natural origin and concentration, it is clear that human activity is at least exacerbating the present situation. Again, this is fact, NOT theory, as presented recently by the International Commission on climate change in Geneva, and the Stark report (apt name) in Britain. Both of these reports presented facts, not theories. It is up to us to reduce that contribution to global climate change.

I agree with you on one point... the naysayers. Every time we are told something is good (or bad) an opposing point of view surfaces. There have been so-called scientific reports telling us smoking is not harmful to our health.

Personally, I do not agree with everything the "green" lobby says, but climate change IS a reality. Friends of mine in the UK tell me they had birds nesting in late November, and bees active, with flowers in full bloom. Where I presently live (Hunter Valley, Australia) is usually cool and dry at this time of year, yet it is now hot and humid, more like the expected weather 1,000 kms North of us, in the sub-tropics. In that region, they are experiencing the kind of weather found in what is known as the dry tropics. It's turned into a desert.

I have watched clouds roll in off the sea on Queensland's Gold Coast, only to see them evaporate as they are heated by the reflected heat from concrete and tarmac, where a few years ago, the forests would have encouraged rain. That to me is hard evidence that runaway development has ruined the local climate.

According to a group of scientists brought together by documentary-maker Martin Durkin, if the planet is heating up, it isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do about it.

Sit on your hands? Wash them, even?
Man is often described as the only animal capable of manipulating his/her own environment. Throwing your hands in the air and saying: "It isn't my fault." and: "There's nothing that can be done about it." is condemning your children to a desolate future. It is also a cop-out of unforgivable proportions. There is plenty that can be done, IMHO.

Oh, by the way, I know my post uses pretty strong terms, but please don't take it personally. Opposing points of view are healthy, IMHO, and I welcome your input. After all, I asked for it!! :)

---

Throwing your hands in the air and saying: "It isn't my fault." and: "There's nothing that can be done about it." is condemning your children to a desolate future. It is also a cop-out of unforgivable proportions.

Mind if I use this statement next time somebody tries to downplay the national debt which is increasing at an average of 1.9 billion per day and is about to break a new all time record of 9 trillion dollars... ;)

Debt-Clock

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

---SNIP--

There are many more ways of helping our environment. One of the best I can think of is making it expensively illegal to leave lights on in unoccupied offices and other commercial premises, as presently happens.

Any comments, people?

As mentioned by MACGIRL, take an hour out of your hectic schedule and take a look at the below video for a position on global warming that is based on a theory with matching evidence/data rather than 'just a theory'.

According to a group of scientists brought together by documentary-maker Martin Durkin, if the planet is heating up, it isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do about it.

We've almost begun to take it for granted that climate change is a man-made phenomenon. But just as the environmental lobby think they've got our attention, a group of naysayers have emerged to slay the whole premise of global warming.

The Great Global Warming Swindle

Hi Enigma

As I said in my post: there are outside, natural influences that MAY have an effect on global climate. As I mentioned, the Earth has developed mechanisms to counter such influences, except in the most extreme of circumstances.

Global warming and cooling have occurred many times in the past. (Ice ages, etc) This is not in doubt.

Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are known to be rising. These levels have been measured. This is, then, a known fact. Excess carbon dioxide results in faster growth in vegetation. Again, a known fact. This allows nature to mop up the excess. However, the annual removal of millions of hectares of vegetation to make room for carbon dioxide exhaling machinery interferes with this natural process, and it is no longer able to keep pace.

Since man-created machines are pumping carbon dioxide and other gases into the atmosphere that are of un-natural origin and concentration, it is clear that human activity is at least exacerbating the present situation. Again, this is fact, NOT theory, as presented recently by the International Commission on climate change in Geneva, and the Stark report (apt name) in Britain. Both of these reports presented facts, not theories. It is up to us to reduce that contribution to global climate change.

I agree with you on one point... the naysayers. Every time we are told something is good (or bad) an opposing point of view surfaces. There have been so-called scientific reports telling us smoking is not harmful to our health.

Personally, I do not agree with everything the "green" lobby says, but climate change IS a reality. Friends of mine in the UK tell me they had birds nesting in late November, and bees active, with flowers in full bloom. Where I presently live (Hunter Valley, Australia) is usually cool and dry at this time of year, yet it is now hot and humid, more like the expected weather 1,000 kms North of us, in the sub-tropics. In that region, they are experiencing the kind of weather found in what is known as the dry tropics. It's turned into a desert.

I have watched clouds roll in off the sea on Queensland's Gold Coast, only to see them evaporate as they are heated by the reflected heat from concrete and tarmac, where a few years ago, the forests would have encouraged rain. That to me is hard evidence that runaway development has ruined the local climate.

According to a group of scientists brought together by documentary-maker Martin Durkin, if the planet is heating up, it isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do about it.

Sit on your hands? Wash them, even?
Man is often described as the only animal capable of manipulating his/her own environment. Throwing your hands in the air and saying: "It isn't my fault." and: "There's nothing that can be done about it." is condemning your children to a desolate future. It is also a cop-out of unforgivable proportions. There is plenty that can be done, IMHO.

Oh, by the way, I know my post uses pretty strong terms, but please don't take it personally. Opposing points of view are healthy, IMHO, and I welcome your input. After all, I asked for it!! :)

Hi LGM,

1. Please show me the causal link between increased CO2 emissions and and temperature. Current scientific data indicates that temperature increased BEFORE the atmospheric concentration of CO2 increased (notice i did not say emissions as this happened BEFORE major industry, cars etc even existed).

2. Sources other than man produce SIGNIFICANTLY MORE green house emissions than man (like volcanoes, animals and vegetation decay).

3. CO2 is only one greenhouse gas and is of less significance than others

4. Did you watch the attached documentary??

Hi LGM,

1. Please show me the causal link between increased CO2 emissions and and temperature. Current scientific data indicates that temperature increased BEFORE the atmospheric concentration of CO2 increased (notice i did not say emissions as this happened BEFORE major industry, cars etc even existed).

2. Sources other than man produce SIGNIFICANTLY MORE green house emissions than man (like volcanoes, animals and vegetation decay).

3. CO2 is only one greenhouse gas and is of less significance than others

4. Did you watch the attached documentary??
[/quote]

1) I'll have a look for some info on greenhouse gases, to see if I can find comparative data on the "strength" of each. I'm pretty busy with studies, atm, but I'll try to find them in the next week or so. (Watch this space!)

2) During a period of severe smog I remember, in Berlin, during the 1980's, analysis showed it was composed of 10% car emissions, 25% emissions from gas- and oil-fired central heating, and the rest was from "industrial" sources. The effect was like walking through dense smoke, which lasted for days. (About a week, if memory serves me right) Stand back from, and a little higher than, any of the world's cities, and you can see a photochemical haze. This is due to hydrocarbons, which are greenhouse gases too. I also said there are natural processes causing warming and cooling, but that the Earth has developed mechanisms to cope. The problem, IMHO, is that human actions are [u]exacerbating[/] the situation, by adding quantities that natural processes cannot keep pace with. If the Earth is undergoing a warming phase (natural or otherwise) our own actions are making it worse. By the way, large-scale volcanic eruptions cause cooling, due to the dust they emit. Their effect is usually short-lived, and natural processes absorb the emissions.

3) See 1)

4) I managed to download and watch the first 10 minutes of the documentary... I'll try again later. I don't want to betotally unscientific, so I must listen to the opposing point of view. However, there was no scientific evidence offered in what I have seen so far. Only claims and insinuations, including a conspiracy theory that someone is trying to prevent development in Africa. (IMHO The latter could have a large kernel of truth!) By the way, does anyone know which companies the people in the documentary are affiliated with? In my experience, people usually choose their political stance alongside those that pay best. Comments I caught in the part of the video I saw mentioned global warming was a political process. Of course it is! Only through a political process can the necessary laws be enacted to change things!

With respect

lgm (remember: Mars is a dead planet now! lol)

---

1) I'll have a look for some info on greenhouse gases, to see if I can find comparative data on the "strength" of each. I'm pretty busy with studies, atm, but I'll try to find them in the next week or so. (Watch this space!)

Okay look forward to it.

Charts showing time (years), temperature and CO2 concentration would be good.

2) During a period of severe smog I remember, in Berlin, during the 1980's, analysis showed it was composed of 10% car emissions, 25% emissions from gas- and oil-fired central heating, and the rest was from "industrial" sources. The effect was like walking through dense smoke, which lasted for days. (About a week, if memory serves me right) Stand back from, and a little higher than, any of the world's cities, and you can see a photochemical haze. This is due to hydrocarbons, which are greenhouse gases too. I also said there are natural processes causing warming and cooling, but that the Earth has developed mechanisms to cope. The problem, IMHO, is that human actions are [u]exacerbating[/] the situation, by adding quantities that natural processes cannot keep pace with. If the Earth is undergoing a warming phase (natural or otherwise) our own actions are making it worse. By the way, large-scale volcanic eruptions cause cooling, due to the dust they emit. Their effect is usually short-lived, and natural processes absorb the emissions.

Significant changes in weather conditions are definitely NOT a new phenomenon.

Frankly, a few heat waves, cool periods and change in bird activities do not (to me) constitute scientific reasons for climate change. Earth climatic systems are simply too complex and well frankly man has been studying them for an extremely short time (relative to the life of earth and its cycles). Unfortunately we also have pitifully short lifespans which IMO adds to the problem.

The fact is, that volcanic eruptions emit copious amounts of green house gas, along with decaying plants and the existence of animals. The point i am making is that the volume of emissions by man are trivial in comparison to the that of other systems.

If you examine climatic data during the turn of the 20th century, the temperates was already going up 'RAPIDLY' (yet there was NO industry or cars! Does this seem ODD?). Furthermore the data provided in the attached video illustrates a reverse link between CO2 and temperature whereby temperature increased FIRST and THEN CO2 concentrations. This seems to indicate the possibility of SOLAR cycles (sun spot activity, expansion and contraction of the sun etc).

4) I managed to download and watch the first 10 minutes of the documentary... I'll try again later. I don't want to be totally unscientific, so I must listen to the opposing point of view. However, there was no scientific evidence offered in what I have seen so far. Only claims and insinuations, including a conspiracy theory that someone is trying to prevent development in Africa. (IMHO The latter could have a large kernel of truth!) By the way, does anyone know which companies the people in the documentary are affiliated with? In my experience, people usually choose their political stance alongside those that pay best. Comments I caught in the part of the video I saw mentioned global warming was a political process. Of course it is! Only through a political process can the necessary laws be enacted to change things!

Well, the documentary is 1 hour 20 minutes, so i would appreciate if you watch the other 70 minutes.

The issue i see with climate change is that the average person is being nothing but unscientific, have just put the blinders on and simply listen to what the main stream media says unquestioningly.

Lets face it, climate change is now an industry, with lots of vested interests. How can there not be significant bias and ignorance to scientific fact. Although i agree that political process has a part to play, surely the science should be mostly complete and accurate first? (i think we know how scientific politicians are).

In this documentary they do discuss research funding problems for anything but support for current climate change theory.

Anyway, take a peek at the full doc and tell me what you think.

Abduction, Alienation and Reason
Audio - Sue Nelson tells the story of John E Mack, an eminent Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard University who was also passionately interested in the phenomenon of alien abduction.

---

me@rescam.org

I'll bet they find out he escaped.

One final trick for Houdini: exhumation

800th post, evening everyone

---

800th post, evening everyone

Good evening, Stacey. Nice to see you. :-)

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Significant changes in weather conditions are definitely NOT a new phenomenon.[quote]

(Back after a weekend away) I agree. However, what is the extent to which humankind is contributing? Also what can be done to ameliorate the effects? (Floods, storms, increased rate of bushfires, droughts)

[quote]Frankly, a few heat waves, cool periods and change in bird activities do not (to me) constitute scientific reasons for climate change. Earth climatic systems are simply too complex and well frankly man has been studying them for an extremely short time (relative to the life of earth and its cycles). Unfortunately we also have pitifully short lifespans which IMO adds to the problem.

One of the most susceptible environments is Australia. I have lived here 19 years. When I first arrived, the part of Queensland had a definite wet and dry season. They haven't had a wet season worth the name in 5 years, and most years, it has actually been non-existent, since 1991. That's not a few heat waves. It's a definite pattern.

Friends in Britain tell me they have gone more than a decade without snowfall over Winter. Again, that's no longer just a few heatwaves.

The fact is, that volcanic eruptions emit copious amounts of green house gas, along with decaying plants and the existence of animals. The point i am making is that the volume of emissions by man are trivial in comparison to the that of other systems.

The Earth has developed mechanisms over billions of years that deal with the effects of decaying plant matter and other, natural, sources of greenhouse gases. These are plant life and bacteriological in the main. Human activities include the changing of environments, removing the habitat of plants, and often of bacteria that would help the planet cope in it's usual fashion. In combination with various emissions, we are exacerbating the situation.

If you examine climatic data during the turn of the 20th century, the temperates was already going up 'RAPIDLY' (yet there was NO industry or cars! Does this seem ODD?). Furthermore the data provided in the attached video illustrates a reverse link between CO2 and temperature whereby temperature increased FIRST and THEN CO2 concentrations. This seems to indicate the possibility of SOLAR cycles (sun spot activity, expansion and contraction of the sun etc).

There certainly WAS industry! The industrial revolution occurred over a period of a couple of centuries, towards the end of which, (The turn of the 20th Century) factories were usually steam-powered, meaning coal burning. During the late 19th Century, the effect of this was so bad, the area around Birmingham was given the name "The Black Country", a name which remains today. The black was due to layers of soot.

The 20th Century saw an unprecendented population growth all over the world, resulting in wholesale removal of forests to make room for ever more people. As population grows, so does industrial output. Hence the increase in global warming throughout that Century.

As temperatures cool, plant life suffers. Hence, if ambient temperature reduces significantly, we get a reduction in plant life, resulting in a rise in CO2. As part of a "dynamic equilibrium", this would then cause a rise in temperature, allowing plant life to re-establish in places where it had been lost. (CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere have never been constant: they fluctuate, as do many things in nature)

Well, the documentary is 1 hour 20 minutes, so i would appreciate if you watch the other 70 minutes.

I'll definitely give it a go. The reason I only managed to get 10 minutes viewing in was the video download just kept stopping. I suspect the server was receiving too many hits. I finally had to go and do assignments.

The issue i see with climate change is that the average person is being nothing but unscientific, have just put the blinders on and simply listen to what the main stream media says unquestioningly.

I was concerned about what I was seeing happen to the environment over 30 years ago. To be watching the events unfolding as I had read about 40 years ago, while at Primary school, reminds me of the naysayers that pooh-poohed the doomsayers back then. The message was out thewre before changes started to occur.

Lets face it, climate change is now an industry, with lots of vested interests. How can there not be significant bias and ignorance to scientific fact. Although i agree that political process has a part to play, surely the science should be mostly complete and accurate first? (i think we know how scientific politicians are).

As mentioned in my earlier posts, the United Nations commissioned a survey into climate change. Their conclusion was that human activities ARE responsible for climate change. Due to inherent inertia, the effects will continue to get worse before they get better, even IF action is taken NOW. The British government had it's own independent report, the Stark report, which came to much the same conclusions.

In this documentary they do discuss research funding problems for anything but support for current climate change theory.

I'd certainly like to see the results of a decent scientific investigation of the variability of our sun. Sunspots are only one of many phenomena that are known to affect climate here. Again, as I mentioned in my first post on this subject, Sol (our sun) has a cycle of 76 years, which sees it alternately cool and heat. Is Sol now at it's hottest? Is this combining with the 11 year sunspot cycle to produce our present decade-long drought here in Australia? Is there also an effect caused by eccentricities in Earth's orbit?

Anyway, take a peek at the full doc and tell me what you think.

Will do!

I'm rather up to my neck with studies at the moment, but I'm sure the vid will stay where it is until the panic is over. Although I have polar views to yours, I'm still interested in the other side of the "argument".

---

Significant changes in weather conditions are definitely NOT a new phenomenon.

(Back after a weekend away) I agree. However, what is the extent to which humankind is contributing? Also what can be done to ameliorate the effects? (Floods, storms, increased rate of bushfires, droughts)

[quote]Frankly, a few heat waves, cool periods and change in bird activities do not (to me) constitute scientific reasons for climate change. Earth climatic systems are simply too complex and well frankly man has been studying them for an extremely short time (relative to the life of earth and its cycles). Unfortunately we also have pitifully short lifespans which IMO adds to the problem.

One of the most susceptible environments is Australia. I have lived here 19 years. When I first arrived, the part of Queensland had a definite wet and dry season. They haven't had a wet season worth the name in 5 years, and most years, it has actually been non-existent, since 1991. That's not a few heat waves. It's a definite pattern.

Friends in Britain tell me they have gone more than a decade without snowfall over Winter. Again, that's no longer just a few heatwaves.

Again, a few peoples observations of change, in something that is KNOWN to change does not constitute science.

The fact is, that volcanic eruptions emit copious amounts of green house gas, along with decaying plants and the existence of animals. The point i am making is that the volume of emissions by man are trivial in comparison to the that of other systems.

The Earth has developed mechanisms over billions of years that deal with the effects of decaying plant matter and other, natural, sources of greenhouse gases. These are plant life and bacteriological in the main. Human activities include the changing of environments, removing the habitat of plants, and often of bacteria that would help the planet cope in it's usual fashion. In combination with various emissions, we are exacerbating the situation.

If you examine climatic data during the turn of the 20th century, the temperates was already going up 'RAPIDLY' (yet there was NO industry or cars! Does this seem ODD?). Furthermore the data provided in the attached video illustrates a reverse link between CO2 and temperature whereby temperature increased FIRST and THEN CO2 concentrations. This seems to indicate the possibility of SOLAR cycles (sun spot activity, expansion and contraction of the sun etc).

There certainly WAS industry! The industrial revolution occurred over a period of a couple of centuries, towards the end of which, (The turn of the 20th Century) factories were usually steam-powered, meaning coal burning. During the late 19th Century, the effect of this was so bad, the area around Birmingham was given the name "The Black Country", a name which remains today. The black was due to layers of soot.

The 20th Century saw an unprecendented population growth all over the world, resulting in wholesale removal of forests to make room for ever more people. As population grows, so does industrial output. Hence the increase in global warming throughout that Century.

As temperatures cool, plant life suffers. Hence, if ambient temperature reduces significantly, we get a reduction in plant life, resulting in a rise in CO2. As part of a "dynamic equilibrium", this would then cause a rise in temperature, allowing plant life to re-establish in places where it had been lost. (CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere have never been constant: they fluctuate, as do many things in nature)

Well, the documentary is 1 hour 20 minutes, so i would appreciate if you watch the other 70 minutes.

I'll definitely give it a go. The reason I only managed to get 10 minutes viewing in was the video download just kept stopping. I suspect the server was receiving too many hits. I finally had to go and do assignments.

The issue i see with climate change is that the average person is being nothing but unscientific, have just put the blinders on and simply listen to what the main stream media says unquestioningly.

I was concerned about what I was seeing happen to the environment over 30 years ago. To be watching the events unfolding as I had read about 40 years ago, while at Primary school, reminds me of the naysayers that pooh-poohed the doomsayers back then. The message was out thewre before changes started to occur.

Lets face it, climate change is now an industry, with lots of vested interests. How can there not be significant bias and ignorance to scientific fact. Although i agree that political process has a part to play, surely the science should be mostly complete and accurate first? (i think we know how scientific politicians are).

As mentioned in my earlier posts, the United Nations commissioned a survey into climate change. Their conclusion was that human activities ARE responsible for climate change. Due to inherent inertia, the effects will continue to get worse before they get better, even IF action is taken NOW. The British government had it's own independent report, the Stark report, which came to much the same conclusions.

In this documentary they do discuss research funding problems for anything but support for current climate change theory.

I'd certainly like to see the results of a decent scientific investigation of the variability of our sun. Sunspots are only one of many phenomena that are known to affect climate here. Again, as I mentioned in my first post on this subject, Sol (our sun) has a cycle of 76 years, which sees it alternately cool and heat. Is Sol now at it's hottest? Is this combining with the 11 year sunspot cycle to produce our present decade-long drought here in Australia? Is there also an effect caused by eccentricities in Earth's orbit?

Anyway, take a peek at the full doc and tell me what you think.

Will do!

I'm rather up to my neck with studies at the moment, but I'm sure the vid will stay where it is until the panic is over. Although I have polar views to yours, I'm still interested in the other side of the "argument".

Well, let me know when you have had time to watch this documentary and i would be happy to discuss further.

Can i assume that you have not read the IPCC report or the "Stern Review on the economics of climate change"?? These are fairly lengthy and would take more time to absorb than the video link i sent you. These reports discuss how the current science for the contemporary theory of climate change works in addition to how their conclusions are reached (not convincing science IMO).

Until then, good luck with your studies.

Enigma.

p.s. One thing is for sure, the current theories and perhaps political policies will (if they are forced to comply) grind the development of India and China to a halt (don't even mention Africa). These economies are a definite threat to the dominance of U.S. (even though they ignore the IPCC report warnings) and Europe and hence their prosperity.

I don't think I've seen the entire video posted in Myths, Legends, Conspiracies before so if it was, sorry.

From The Disclosure Project:

US government staff confirm UFOs are real

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Images from the deep space camera surveying the sun and earths magnetohsphere etc.. ???


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I don't think I've seen the entire video posted in Myths, Legends, Conspiracies before so if it was, sorry.

From The Disclosure Project:

US government staff confirm UFOs are real

No worries A/C. If it was posted before, it was in one of the long ago spawns. I don't recall seeing it recently.

Thanks for brining it back up for us. :-)