Continued from the Closed thread

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John McLeod VII
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Message 464516 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 0:07:08 UTC - in response to Message 464489.  

Having followed the links Misfit provided earlier, and a couple others from the same place, I would say in some instances the breast was not as well concealed by the baby's head as Es would suggest.

On the other hand, I cannot even recall for sure ever viewing any woman breastfeeding. So, that either says I have not viewed any public breastfeeding, or if I have, it is not as indecent as BS suggests.

Well having done and seen a lot of breastfeeding in public..including on planes to the US..I can assure you there is nothing indecent about it, and I think I am more qualified to make that statement than the majority of posters in this thread ;-)

Go to any cafe here during the day and you will see mothers with their babies having coffee while they breastfeed their babies. No one bats an eyelid

I have seen it done a few times, and I did not see any problem with it.


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Message 464520 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 0:13:19 UTC - in response to Message 464516.  

Having followed the links Misfit provided earlier, and a couple others from the same place, I would say in some instances the breast was not as well concealed by the baby's head as Es would suggest.

On the other hand, I cannot even recall for sure ever viewing any woman breastfeeding. So, that either says I have not viewed any public breastfeeding, or if I have, it is not as indecent as BS suggests.

Well having done and seen a lot of breastfeeding in public..including on planes to the US..I can assure you there is nothing indecent about it, and I think I am more qualified to make that statement than the majority of posters in this thread ;-)

Go to any cafe here during the day and you will see mothers with their babies having coffee while they breastfeed their babies. No one bats an eyelid

I have seen it done a few times, and I did not see any problem with it.


Careful, John. Someone might guess you are not widely travelled and judge you upon this guess. Better to say you have been to at least 50 countries, seen it often, and you're cool with it or some such. ;)
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Message 464524 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 0:19:04 UTC - in response to Message 464520.  
Last modified: 24 Nov 2006, 0:21:47 UTC

Having followed the links Misfit provided earlier, and a couple others from the same place, I would say in some instances the breast was not as well concealed by the baby's head as Es would suggest.

On the other hand, I cannot even recall for sure ever viewing any woman breastfeeding. So, that either says I have not viewed any public breastfeeding, or if I have, it is not as indecent as BS suggests.

Well having done and seen a lot of breastfeeding in public..including on planes to the US..I can assure you there is nothing indecent about it, and I think I am more qualified to make that statement than the majority of posters in this thread ;-)

Go to any cafe here during the day and you will see mothers with their babies having coffee while they breastfeed their babies. No one bats an eyelid

I have seen it done a few times, and I did not see any problem with it.


Careful, John. Someone might guess you are not widely travelled and judge you upon this guess. Better to say you have been to at least 50 countries, seen it often, and you're cool with it or some such. ;)

Would you like me to post a list of countries, or is this some sort of control issue? If so, please share with us your wisdom and insight.
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Message 464526 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 0:30:07 UTC - in response to Message 464524.  

Having followed the links Misfit provided earlier, and a couple others from the same place, I would say in some instances the breast was not as well concealed by the baby's head as Es would suggest.

On the other hand, I cannot even recall for sure ever viewing any woman breastfeeding. So, that either says I have not viewed any public breastfeeding, or if I have, it is not as indecent as BS suggests.

Well having done and seen a lot of breastfeeding in public..including on planes to the US..I can assure you there is nothing indecent about it, and I think I am more qualified to make that statement than the majority of posters in this thread ;-)

Go to any cafe here during the day and you will see mothers with their babies having coffee while they breastfeed their babies. No one bats an eyelid

I have seen it done a few times, and I did not see any problem with it.


Careful, John. Someone might guess you are not widely travelled and judge you upon this guess. Better to say you have been to at least 50 countries, seen it often, and you're cool with it or some such. ;)

Would you like me to post a list of countries, or is this some sort of control issue? If so, please share with us your wisdom and insight.

First, it is not 50 countries. More like a dozen, on three continents.


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Message 464529 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 0:38:19 UTC
Last modified: 24 Nov 2006, 0:43:17 UTC

What the heck...

United States (49 excepting Alaska)
Canada
Mexico
Sweden
Denmark
England
Netherlands
France
Belgium
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Switzerland
Vatican
Leichtenstein
Austria
German Federal Republic
German Democratic Republic
Yugoslavia (all republics)
Greece
Bulgaria
Turkey
Syria
Lebanon
Cyprus
Israel
Jorden
Egypt
Malta
Corsica (France)
Sardinia (Italy)
Canary Islands (Spain)
Kenya
Zaire (Congo)
South Africa
Botswana
Zimbabwe
Zambia
Mozambique
Viet Nam
Thailand
Australia
Philipines

I lied...43...40 if you leave the islands out of it.
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Message 464758 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 7:49:54 UTC - in response to Message 464529.  
Last modified: 24 Nov 2006, 7:56:26 UTC

What the heck...

United States (49 excepting Alaska)

Why excepting Alaska? I found this .... http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/breast50.htm

it says as follows....

# Thirty seven states allow mothers to breastfeed in any public or private location (Alabama, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont and Virginia).

# Nineteen states exempt breastfeeding from public indecency laws (Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin).
_________________________________________________
What is the heck is the difference between *allowing breastfeeding in public* and *exempting from public indecency?*
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Message 464794 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 11:44:53 UTC - in response to Message 464758.  
Last modified: 24 Nov 2006, 11:45:31 UTC

What the heck...

United States (49 excepting Alaska)

Why excepting Alaska? I found this .... http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/breast50.htm

it says as follows....

# Thirty seven states allow mothers to breastfeed in any public or private location (Alabama, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont and Virginia).

# Nineteen states exempt breastfeeding from public indecency laws (Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin).
_________________________________________________
What is the heck is the difference between *allowing breastfeeding in public* and *exempting from public indecency?*



"allowing breastfeeding in public"

Legislation in the U.S. - "exempting from public indecency"


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Message 464796 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 11:52:05 UTC

SUMMARY OF ENACTED BREASTFEEDING LEGISLATION
NEVADA
Nevada has enacted a law that specifically sets forth the importance of breastfeeding, and clarifies that women have a right to breastfeed their children in public, even if there is exposure of the breast. It also clarifies that breastfeeding is not an indecent or criminal act.

Nev. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 201.210, § 201.220, § 201.232
1995 Nev. ALS 105; 1995 Nev. Stat. 105; 1995 Nev. Ch. 105; 1995 Nev. SB 317

§ 201.232. Breast feeding: Legislative intent; authorized in any public or private location where mother is authorized to be
1. The legislature finds and declares that:
(a) The medical profession in the United States recommends that children from birth to the age of 1 year should be breast fed, unless under particular circumstances it is medically inadvisable.
(b) Despite the recommendation of the medical profession, statistics reveal a declining percentage of mothers who are choosing to breast feed their babies.
(c) Many new mothers are now choosing to use formula rather than to breast feed even before they leave the hospital, and only a small percentage of all mothers are still breast feeding when their babies are 6 months old.
(d) In addition to the benefit of improving bonding between mothers and their babies, breast feeding offers better nutrition, digestion and immunity for babies than does formula feeding, and it may increase the intelligence quotient of a child. Babies who are breast fed have lower rates of death, meningitis, childhood leukemia and other cancers, diabetes, respiratory illnesses, bacterial and viral infections, diarrheal diseases, otitis media, allergies, obesity and developmental delays.
(e) Breast feeding also provides significant benefits to the health of the mother, including protection against breast cancer and other cancers, osteoporosis and infections of the urinary tract. The incidence of breast cancer in the United States might be reduced by 25 percent if every woman breast fed all her children until they reached the age of 2 years.
(f) The World Health Organization and the United Nations Children's Fund have established as one of their major goals for the decade the encouragement of breast feeding.
(g) The social constraints of modern society weigh against the choice of breast feeding and lead new mothers with demanding time schedules to opt for formula feeding to avoid embarrassment, social ostracism or criminal prosecution.
(h) Any genuine promotion of family values should encourage public acceptance of this most basic act of nurture between a mother and her baby, and no mother should be made to feel incriminated or socially ostracized for breast feeding her child.
2. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a mother may breast feed her child in any public or private location where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother's breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breast feeding.

Nev. Rev. State. § 201.210
1. A person who commits any act of open or gross lewdness is guilty:
(a) For the first offense, of a gross misdemeanor.
(b) For any subsequent offense, of a category D felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.
2. For the purposes of this section, the breast feeding of a child by the mother of the child does not constitute an act of open or gross lewdness.

Nev. Rev. State. § 201.220
1. A person who makes any open and indecent or obscene exposure of his person, or of the person of another, is guilty:
(a) For the first offense, of a gross misdemeanor.
(b) For any subsequent offense, of a category D felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130
2. For the purposes of this section, the breast feeding of a child by the mother of the child does not constitute an act of open and indecent or obscene exposure of her body.


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Message 464881 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 15:17:26 UTC

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Message 464892 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 15:59:43 UTC - in response to Message 464881.  

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Message 464906 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 16:37:54 UTC
Last modified: 24 Nov 2006, 16:38:38 UTC

The part I love the most is how some of you seem to believe the government can legislate feelings and opinions.




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Message 464911 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 16:47:30 UTC


Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 464912 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 16:47:53 UTC - in response to Message 464906.  

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Message 464913 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 16:49:04 UTC - in response to Message 464906.  

The part I love the most is how some of you seem to believe the government can legislate feelings and opinions.



But, BrainSmashR, what I don't understand is that you feel breastfeeding is indecent?

:-P


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Message 464985 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 18:32:40 UTC - in response to Message 464912.  

The part I love the most is how some of you seem to believe the government can legislate feelings and opinions.


LAF

I'll cut you some slack on this one since you aren't American....but do you REALLY believe the Civil Rights Act ended racism? You can't legislate opinions and feelings.


But, BrainSmashR, what I don't understand is that you feel breastfeeding is indecent?


It's the definition of the term. I don't know how to say that any other way....

Definitions of indecent on the Web:

* not in keeping with accepted standards of what is right or proper in polite society; "was buried with indecent haste"; "indecorous behavior"; "language unbecoming to a lady"; "unseemly to use profanity"; "moved to curb their untoward ribaldry"
* offensive to good taste especially in sexual matters; "an earthy but not indecent story"; "an indecent gesture"
* offending against sexual mores in conduct or appearance; "a bathing suit considered indecent by local standards"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* A dictionary definition of Indecent#not conforming with accepted standards of behaviour or morality. #not appropriate
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indecent



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Message 464988 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 18:43:52 UTC - in response to Message 464985.  
Last modified: 24 Nov 2006, 19:18:00 UTC

The part I love the most is how some of you seem to believe the government can legislate feelings and opinions.


LAF

I'll cut you some slack on this one since you aren't American....but do you REALLY believe the Civil Rights Act ended racism? You can't legislate opinions and feelings.


But, BrainSmashR, what I don't understand is that you feel breastfeeding is indecent?


It's the definition of the term. I don't know how to say that any other way....

Definitions of indecent on the Web:

* not in keeping with accepted standards of what is right or proper in polite society; "was buried with indecent haste"; "indecorous behavior"; "language unbecoming to a lady"; "unseemly to use profanity"; "moved to curb their untoward ribaldry"
* offensive to good taste especially in sexual matters; "an earthy but not indecent story"; "an indecent gesture"
* offending against sexual mores in conduct or appearance; "a bathing suit considered indecent by local standards"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* A dictionary definition of Indecent#not conforming with accepted standards of behaviour or morality. #not appropriate
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indecent

Still failing to see where breast feeding fits into that definition. There is nothing indecent about it at all.
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Message 464994 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 18:49:16 UTC - in response to Message 464985.  

The part I love the most is how some of you seem to believe the government can legislate feelings and opinions.


LAF

I'll cut you some slack on this one since you aren't American....but do you REALLY believe the Civil Rights Act ended racism? You can't legislate opinions and feelings.


But, BrainSmashR, what I don't understand is that you feel breastfeeding is indecent?


It's the definition of the term. I don't know how to say that any other way....

Definitions of indecent on the Web:

* not in keeping with accepted standards of what is right or proper in polite society; "was buried with indecent haste"; "indecorous behavior"; "language unbecoming to a lady"; "unseemly to use profanity"; "moved to curb their untoward ribaldry"
* offensive to good taste especially in sexual matters; "an earthy but not indecent story"; "an indecent gesture"
* offending against sexual mores in conduct or appearance; "a bathing suit considered indecent by local standards"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* A dictionary definition of Indecent#not conforming with accepted standards of behaviour or morality. #not appropriate
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indecent


Come now! We all know society is always correct, the same all the world round, and never changes its mind on what is acceptable.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 465018 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 19:01:04 UTC - in response to Message 464985.  

Definitions of indecent on the Web:

* not in keeping with accepted standards of what is right or proper in polite society; "was buried with indecent haste"; "indecorous behavior"; "language unbecoming to a lady"; "unseemly to use profanity"; "moved to curb their untoward ribaldry"
* offensive to good taste especially in sexual matters; "an earthy but not indecent story"; "an indecent gesture"
* offending against sexual mores in conduct or appearance; "a bathing suit considered indecent by local standards"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* A dictionary definition of Indecent#not conforming with accepted standards of behaviour or morality. #not appropriate
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indecent

First thing about the definition above is that you must define "polite society". Once that little detail is taken care of, there may be a meaningful discussion. As to the rest of the alternate definitions, there is nothing sexual about feeding a baby.
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Message 465047 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 19:19:19 UTC - in response to Message 465018.  

First thing about the definition above is that you must define "polite society". Once that little detail is taken care of, there may be a meaningful discussion. As to the rest of the alternate definitions, there is nothing sexual about feeding a baby.


You'll be telling me next that you don't have long table clothes to cover those indecent ankles of your occasional furniture.
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Message 465070 - Posted: 24 Nov 2006, 20:30:01 UTC - in response to Message 464985.  

sniped.....It's the definition of the term. I don't know how to say that any other way....

Definitions of indecent on the Web:

* not in keeping with accepted standards of what is right or proper in polite society; "was buried with indecent haste"; "indecorous behavior"; "language unbecoming to a lady"; "unseemly to use profanity"; "moved to curb their untoward ribaldry"
* offensive to good taste especially in sexual matters; "an earthy but not indecent story"; "an indecent gesture"
* offending against sexual mores in conduct or appearance; "a bathing suit considered indecent by local standards"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* A dictionary definition of Indecent#not conforming with accepted standards of behaviour or morality. #not appropriate
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indecent


It is conclusive that you feel/believe/etc. that Breastfeeding is indecent, and the rest of us do not. You are entitled to believe that it is indecent. So are we to believe differently. ;)

The laws relating to Breastfeeding are not the US gov't legislating feelings or opinions, but a result of the feelings/opinions of the majority. Laws also reflect the morality of its Citizens defining what is moral(immoral).

This thread clearly reflects the public opinion towards this issue.
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