Opinions Of Destruction Or Enlightenment?

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Profile SilentObserver64
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Message 240383 - Posted: 31 Jan 2006, 19:04:00 UTC
Last modified: 31 Jan 2006, 19:20:20 UTC

(1) Opinion -
1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: “The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion” (Elizabeth Drew).
2. A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.
3. A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts.
4. The prevailing view: public opinion.
5. Law. A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.

(2) Destruction -
1.
1. The act of destroying.
2. The condition of having been destroyed.
2. The cause or means of destroying: weapons that could prove to be the destruction of humankind.

(3) Enlightenment - A philosophical movement of the 18th century that emphasized the use of reason to scrutinize previously accepted doctrines and traditions and that brought about many humanitarian reforms. Used with the.


With those definitions above used as a reference, comes my question in which no one is excluded or exempt from. We all have opinions, in which we may or may not agree upon. Opinions are derived from a basis of choice.

(4) Choice - 1. The act of choosing; selection.
2. The power, right, or liberty to choose; option.
3. One that is chosen.
4. A number or variety from which to choose: a wide choice of styles and colors.
5. The best or most preferable part.
6. Care in choosing.
7. An alternative.


adj. choic·er, choic·est

1.
1. Of very fine quality.
2. Appealing to refined taste.
2. Selected with care.
3. Of the U.S. Government grade of meat higher than good and lower than prime.


Idiom:
of choice

Preferred above others of the same kind or set: “the much used leveraged buyout as the weapon of choice” (Alison Leigh Cowan).

I have read these forums, newspapers, watched the news, listened to conversations, and gave a few conversations myself, in which we all can agree that, our opinions shape our lives, standards, and our way of thinking. Now is it because of this, that these last few generations have seemed to get "better or worse" than the previous generation knew it as? Did in fact, in the 1960's and 1970's, those generations "rebel", which some believe to be the starting point of the generations of todays downfall? Or did it infact make it better for all of us to more freely speak or opinions, which shape what we know as the world today? Did it help advance technology? Did it help advance our social lives? Did it infact improve society all around? Where those opinions always there, and if so, was it because of the generations way of life before that those opinions were not allowed to be expressed?

(5) Rebellion - 1. Open, armed, and organized resistance to a constituted government.
2. An act or a show of defiance toward an authority or established convention.


For centuries, this has been our way of life. In one form or another, by one person or several people, there has always been a difference of opinons. That's what makes us human. The ability to make our own choices, despite the goods or consequence's from it, and form opinions based on those choices. Rebellions are just people who agree on the same opinion and choice, who go against those who will not agree with them, to either force them to agree to see their point of view, or at least try.

(6) Society -
1.
1. The totality of social relationships among humans.
2. A group of humans broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture.
3. The institutions and culture of a distinct self-perpetuating group.
2. An organization or association of persons engaged in a common profession, activity, or interest: a folklore society; a society of bird watchers.
3.
1. The rich, privileged, and fashionable social class.
2. The socially dominant members of a community.
4. Companionship; company: enjoys the society of friends and family members.
5. Biology. A colony or community of organisms, usually of the same species: an insect society.


A society is a group of people who do agree on such opinions and choices. If you read through the history books that was how our society was made. Through rebellions against the already existing societies, and societies co-existing together to make bigger ones. Then came law and government to "help" keep some kind of order and regulation amongst ourselves, so that our differences did not rip us apart.

I can keep going with this conversation, but I wanted to make a small point as to a few threads I have read and how they had become so off topic that it wasn't funny. The same goes for a lot of other things I have seen and read. This thread alone is full of opinions as well as facts. Let us see where it leads from here. Does it stay on topic, or will it go astray as I have seen in a few topics on these threads. Nothing bad was intended by this thread, but just a realization as to what has been happening behind the lines, whether it was recognized or not.
(Excuse any mis-numberings as they were copied from the dictionary and did not paste the same as they were copied from the source.)
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Message 240403 - Posted: 31 Jan 2006, 20:06:58 UTC

Let me take a moment to apologize for my part in draging your thread on the EPA into a largely off-topic direction. I felt there was an important point to be made there, I'm just sorry it was made (IMO) at a faraway point.

Trying to keep a thread on topic, is as hard as herding cats (and maybe a few stray dogs ;) ). I wish you a lot of luck, and plenty of patience.


Still looking for something profound or inspirational to place here.
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Message 240409 - Posted: 31 Jan 2006, 20:15:32 UTC

'Let me take a moment to apologize for my part in draging your thread on the EPA into a largely off-topic direction.'


Ditto that... ;)
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Message 240437 - Posted: 31 Jan 2006, 21:17:36 UTC

Thank you both for the appologies. I sometimes understand why some things need to be said, hence an opinion, but we all can lose sight of the actual problem or topic at hand from time to time.
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Message 241082 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 17:10:02 UTC

I see no one has an opinion to place here on this thread. Either everyone agree's with me or there is a very big silent majority out there. Let me see some opinions and lets see where it leads!! Thank You!
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Message 241135 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 19:09:17 UTC
Last modified: 2 Feb 2006, 19:15:16 UTC

Has society been destroyed or enlightened?

Read the following transcript carefully and think about how many of your God given rights have been taken away in recent years. This would have NEVER happened 25 years ago... ;)

-------------------------

The Bill of Rights:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment VII

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 241136 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 19:21:51 UTC - in response to Message 241135.  

Read the following transcript carefully and think about how many of your God given rights have been taken away in recent years. This would have NEVER happened 25 years ago.

No god gave me any rights. No one needs some god torchin' their bushes, slaughterin' their first born, or orderin' people to convert others by the sword. Those kind of rights we can do without.
Cordially,
Rush

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Message 241142 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 19:34:22 UTC - in response to Message 240383.  

I'm not a rebel. I'm a critic.


Since i'm not clear on what the subject really is for this thread:


I can keep going with this conversation, but I wanted to make a small point as to a few threads I have read and how they had become so off topic that it wasn't funny. The same goes for a lot of other things I have seen and read. This thread alone is full of opinions as well as facts. Let us see where it leads from here. Does it stay on topic, or will it go astray as I have seen in a few topics on these threads. Nothing bad was intended by this thread, but just a realization as to what has been happening behind the lines, whether it was recognized or not.
(Excuse any mis-numberings as they were copied from the dictionary and did not paste the same as they were copied from the source.)


My apologies. Off topic subjects often come from idle comments made within the main topic intended. Or often times arise from someones opinion based on some belief and that belief then becomes the new topic.


Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.



I can think of a few issues that were put forth into vote by the public and the voters voted one way and the federal government said "no" but based on these two admendments, the federal government is wrong. Democracy is dead.

Improvement of the human condition is hope. I have none except in technology. The fore fathers of the U.S. ran from conditions set upon them by the elite, upon doing so, they created a nation that would follow in the footsteps of the predecessors. A nation in which the power and money hungry would gain a foothold and the numbers that live in poverty would grow. Only for the short time when everyone was on the same footing, did real and rapid advancement thrive. Are we ignorant to think that we have beat the system and that we are better than all others? I have more thoughts but it's time to eat.



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Message 241149 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 19:38:52 UTC - in response to Message 240383.  

I've read the original post several times and I still can't work out what the discussion is meant to be about. Please can you clarify.

I personally can't stand it when people quote the dictionary as if it is the absolute truth. Remember, that the dictionary was written by people and they have been know to be biased or wrong at times. (At least no one claims it was written by God!)

Oh, and although I never, ever thought I'd say this..I agree with Rush's comment about 'God given rights'.

People only ever get the rights that they demand and fight for.
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Message 241155 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 19:42:53 UTC - in response to Message 241142.  

I can think of a few issues that were put forth into vote by the public and the voters voted one way and the federal government said "no" but based on these two admendments, the federal government is wrong. Democracy is dead.

And rightfully so. The second any country became a true democracy, I would be G O N E (if I lived there). Short of places like the DPRK and Smilin' Joe's little Union, I can't think of a more miserable place to live.

Cordially,
Rush

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Remove the obvious...
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Message 241182 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 20:27:13 UTC - in response to Message 241149.  
Last modified: 2 Feb 2006, 20:33:49 UTC

I've read the original post several times and I still can't work out what the discussion is meant to be about. Please can you clarify.


This thread was based upon whether or not our differences of opinions has corrupted or helped our way of life as it is today. The other details spoken in this thread was an example of what happens when we seem to put our opinions together and what forms from those opinions hence another previous thread I started a while back. FDA Responsible For Today's Health Problems? One of which I'm sure some of you are familiar with. From the 1950's, using what I posted as the starting topic on this thread about opinion's, can we determine whether our opinions have or have not helped us or corrupted us in one way or another as we know the world today in that time period. More to follow, and if you have any questions. I'll answer them to the best of my ability. Thank you, Es99 for asking, so that I may make the point a little more clearer.

(When replying to these posts, I ask that you please try and keep an open mind of others opinions, and be logical and reasonable about your answers or opinions.)
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Message 241185 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 20:35:05 UTC

If I read it correctly, this thread is about how peoples opinions shape events, and there's a hint about how quickly peoples opinions can cause a thread to go off topic. If this is so, then the original poster has proved his point!

I would say from what I've seen on these boards that the strongest opinions seem to concern politics, and these are the ones that upset and annoy people the most.

Is that so, is it red -v- blue?

Q. What's purple, lives in the sea, and weighs 5000 pounds?
A. Moby Plum.
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Message 241200 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 21:04:40 UTC

The Declaration of Independence:

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.


It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 241205 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 21:16:31 UTC
Last modified: 2 Feb 2006, 21:17:38 UTC

Being open to a variety of concepts and ideas is the road to enlightment...being enslaved by a narrow view or ideology is the path that leads to revolution and chaos (and yes, destruction as well)...there has to be a balance...the old and the new...the liberal and the conservative...if we lean too far in one direction society suffers.


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Message 241206 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 21:17:38 UTC - in response to Message 241155.  

I can think of a few issues that were put forth into vote by the public and the voters voted one way and the federal government said "no" but based on these two admendments, the federal government is wrong. Democracy is dead.

And rightfully so. The second any country became a true democracy, I would be G O N E (if I lived there). Short of places like the DPRK and Smilin' Joe's little Union, I can't think of a more miserable place to live.


Then you don't believe in our fore fathers? Dark Vader is an appropriate avatar for you.

Thanks Jeffery for the quote on the Declaration of Independence.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.


When the government ignores the redress of the vote, then they become the tyrant and that's what binds us to repition of that in which we originally ran from and fought against. That's how opinion hinders us.

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Message 241212 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 21:25:04 UTC - in response to Message 241205.  

Being open to a variety of concepts and ideas is the road to enlightment...being enslaved by a narrow view or ideology is the path that leads to revolution and chaos (and yes, destruction as well)...there has to be a balance...the old and the new...the liberal and the conservative...if we lean too far in one direction society suffers.


Very well said. I agree with that 100%.
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Message 241215 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 21:29:17 UTC
Last modified: 2 Feb 2006, 21:29:44 UTC

The Constitution of the United States: (BTW, This includes the Bill of Rights)

Article. II.
Section. 1.

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:

--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 241217 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 21:32:16 UTC - in response to Message 241215.  

The Constitution of the United States: (BTW, This includes the Bill of Rights)

Article. II.
Section. 1.

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:

--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."



I see some point to be made here, and understand why you are using the constitution as a reference, but please explain so that it is a little more clear as to your point, or opinion, so that we all may be on the same page.
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Message 241220 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 21:42:41 UTC

My only point is...

Things used to be better back then...
Because back then, we were truly 'free' people... ;)


It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 241223 - Posted: 2 Feb 2006, 21:50:28 UTC - in response to Message 241220.  
Last modified: 2 Feb 2006, 21:58:54 UTC

My only point is...

Things used to be better back then...
Because back then, we were truly 'free' people... ;)


it may have been better for many back then...but there were people who were considered to be the property of other people...they were people who were not enjoying the freedoms and rights that document so proudly proclaimed...pristine document indeed...but it did not reflect the total reality of the times in which it was written...but all of those things they wanted then, were and are still, worthy goals.


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