Religious Thread [6] - CLOSED

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Message 240026 - Posted: 31 Jan 2006, 1:01:43 UTC

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Message 241866 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 0:50:17 UTC - in response to Message 240026.  


Is that what happens when the TARDIS has the pope on board?
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Message 242459 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 19:53:23 UTC
Last modified: 4 Feb 2006, 19:53:43 UTC


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Message 242465 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 20:01:56 UTC

Embassies burn in cartoon protest





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Message 242688 - Posted: 5 Feb 2006, 1:06:00 UTC - in response to Message 242465.  

Embassies burn in cartoon protest






Reading the article, it also looks like they set fire to the Chilean and Swedish embassies.


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Message 242733 - Posted: 5 Feb 2006, 2:21:10 UTC - in response to Message 242688.  
Last modified: 5 Feb 2006, 2:23:32 UTC

Embassies burn in cartoon protest






Reading the article, it also looks like they set fire to the Chilean and Swedish embassies.



Yes, the Sweedish and Chilean embassies were sited in the same building. And after burning the building down, they went to the Norwegian embassy 6 kilometers away and burned that down too.


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Message 242830 - Posted: 5 Feb 2006, 8:27:13 UTC


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Message 243021 - Posted: 5 Feb 2006, 18:01:21 UTC

Utah's politicians are divided about evolution disclaimer bill

By Kirk Johnson
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE

February 5, 2006

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah – Faith's domain is evident everywhere at the Utah Legislature, where about 90 percent of the elected officials are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Prayers are commonplace, and lawmakers speak of their relationship with God in ordinary conversation.

So it might be tempting to assume that state legislation relating to the divisive national debate about the teaching of evolution in public schools would have a predictable outcome here.

Senate Bill 96 is disproving that assumption. The bill, which would require science teachers to offer a disclaimer when introducing lessons on evolution – namely, that not all scientists agree on the origins of life – has deeply divided lawmakers. Some leaders in both parties have announced their opposition to the bill, and most lawmakers say that with less than a month left in the legislative session, its fate remains a toss-up.

One of the reasons why is state Rep. Stephen Urquhart, a Republican from southern Utah whose job as majority whip is to line up votes in his party. Urquhart announced last month that he would vote against the bill.

“I don't think God has an argument with science,” Urquhart said.

Urquhart says he objects to the bill in part because it raises questions about the validity of evolution, and in part because the measure threatens traditional religious belief by blurring the lines between faith and science.

Supporters of the bill, which has passed the Senate 16-12, predict it will pass in the House. They say the bill is not about religion, but science.

“I don't have to talk about religion – it's of no meaning and it's not part of this discussion,” said state Rep. James Ferrin, a Republican and the sponsor of the bill. “It's not about belief; it's about not overstepping what we know.”

Opponents of the bill, including state Sen. Peter Knudson, the Republican majority leader, openly laugh at talk like that.

“Of course it's about religion,” Knudson said.

Although the Origins of Life bill, as it is formally known, does not mention an alternative theory to evolution, some legislators say they think that voting yes could be tantamount to supporting intelligent design, which posits an undefined intelligence lurking behind the miracles of life and which differs greatly from the Mormon creation story.

Others say that Mormonism, with its emphasis that all beings can progress toward higher planes of existence, before and after death, has a receptivity toward evolutionary thought that other religions might lack. Still others oppose the state's inserting itself in matters of curriculum, which are mostly under local control.

The Utah bill's main sponsor, state Sen. D. Chris Buttars, a Republican from the Salt Lake City suburbs, said he was not surprised by the debate it had inspired. He said ordinary voters were deeply concerned about the teaching of evolution.

“I got tired of people calling me and saying, 'Why is my kid coming home from high school and saying his biology teacher told him he evolved from a chimpanzee?' ” Buttars said.

Evolutionary theory does not say that humans evolved from chimpanzees or from any existing species, but rather that common ancestors gave rise to multiple species and that natural selection, in which the creatures best adapted to an environment pass their genes to the next generation, was the means by which divergence occurred over time. All modern biology is based on the theory, and within the scientific community, at least, there is no controversy about it.
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Message 243536 - Posted: 6 Feb 2006, 9:26:59 UTC

How is it,? ....that you can make a jape of Jesus, pillory the pope, moon a Moonie, mock the Mormons, parody the Presbyterians, shout out that Scientology sucks, and just generally run a humor riot over most of the world's religions with either outright impunity, or at most, a sense of grudging social acceptance, .......yet humor and Islam is considered totally off-limits?
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Message 243602 - Posted: 6 Feb 2006, 15:24:52 UTC - in response to Message 243536.  

How is it,? ....that you can make a jape of Jesus, pillory the pope, moon a Moonie, mock the Mormons, parody the Presbyterians, shout out that Scientology sucks, and just generally run a humor riot over most of the world's religions with either outright impunity, or at most, a sense of grudging social acceptance, .......yet humor and Islam is considered totally off-limits?

Actually, it is worse than this. The media outlets that are the most up-in-arms (almost literally) about defaming 'a major world religion' are the exact same ones that routinely air explosive rhetoric denouncing Judaism and Israel.

If it was just a matter of being thin-skinned, the West might take this as an opportunity to introduce Middle Eastern governments to freedom of the press and why it is important especially when it is annoying. However, it is not a matter of thin skin; it is a matter of rank hypocrisy.
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Message 243663 - Posted: 6 Feb 2006, 18:11:23 UTC

I just had some pork fried rice for lunch. On purpose. In direct violation of Islamic custom. In doing so, I helped to support the US's 70,000 or so pork farming operations. My wife wears clothing that fails to hide her from head to toe. Most of the world has been ignoring Islamic injunctions for centuries.

But the actions of a non-Muslim in a far-off country that contradicted a relatively obscure tenet of Islam four months ago starts a firestorm of deadly riots? Please... this is an orchastrated protest to demonstrate that pushing Iran or the Palestinians (or whoever) too hard could be dangerous. Now that the riots have metastasized, they are likely out of the control of the original instigators.
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Message 243748 - Posted: 6 Feb 2006, 20:41:50 UTC - in response to Message 243663.  

I agree with this post, atleast in its intent. Seriously a cartoon in Jutland of all places that ivoked no response from the local muslims is suddenly all over the islamic world; I am suspicious. Nevertheless we now have Europeans ready to defend the right of freedom of speech. We have the islamic world insulted and ready to fight for purity of doctrine. Hum I just wonder whose little war that isn't going to well this sort of distraction would aid. I am suspicious. Iran and palestine have been ignored for a long time now; I doubt that palestine bothers to many decision makes. (To the shame of the western world but really it can be written off as just craziness that can't be solved) The war though is on the front burner for elections coming and well just for the hell of it. I apologise for being so cynical but I am. \\

The real problem that raises it's ugly head for us how are believers (I am Christian) is the extremes in every camp. If they are allowed to set the agenda for religion, then we are in deep trouble-Oh where are those good men and women that will stand up against evil. Peace Les

I just had some pork fried rice for lunch. On purpose. In direct violation of Islamic custom. In doing so, I helped to support the US's 70,000 or so pork farming operations. My wife wears clothing that fails to hide her from head to toe. Most of the world has been ignoring Islamic injunctions for centuries.

But the actions of a non-Muslim in a far-off country that contradicted a relatively obscure tenet of Islam four months ago starts a firestorm of deadly riots? Please... this is an orchastrated protest to demonstrate that pushing Iran or the Palestinians (or whoever) too hard could be dangerous. Now that the riots have metastasized, they are likely out of the control of the original instigators.


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Message 243759 - Posted: 6 Feb 2006, 20:52:45 UTC - in response to Message 243748.  

I agree with this post, atleast in its intent. Seriously a cartoon in Jutland of all places that ivoked no response from the local muslims is suddenly all over the islamic world; I am suspicious. Nevertheless we now have Europeans ready to defend the right of freedom of speech. We have the islamic world insulted and ready to fight for purity of doctrine. Hum I just wonder whose little war that isn't going to well this sort of distraction would aid. I am suspicious. Iran and palestine have been ignored for a long time now; I doubt that palestine bothers to many decision makes. (To the shame of the western world but really it can be written off as just craziness that can't be solved) The war though is on the front burner for elections coming and well just for the hell of it. I apologise for being so cynical but I am. \\

The real problem that raises it's ugly head for us how are believers (I am Christian) is the extremes in every camp. If they are allowed to set the agenda for religion, then we are in deep trouble-Oh where are those good men and women that will stand up against evil. Peace Les

There is a more sinister possible origin for the rioting, and that is to demonstrate to moderate Muslims that the radical Muslims can put them in a world of hurt very quickly with the flimsiest of justifications.

Could there really have been that many Danish flags in the region just in case they were needed for burning at some indeterminent time? It is obvious the begining wave of demonstrations was orchestrated.
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Message 243762 - Posted: 6 Feb 2006, 20:56:12 UTC - in response to Message 243759.  

Could there really have been that many Danish flags in the region just in case they were needed for burning at some indeterminent time? It is obvious the begining wave of demonstrations was orchestrated.

Hmmm, someone's making a fortune selling flags to the Muslims..do I sense a conspiracy here?
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Message 243832 - Posted: 6 Feb 2006, 22:34:44 UTC
Last modified: 6 Feb 2006, 22:38:21 UTC

'-Oh where are those good men and women that will stand up against evil. Peace Les'


My guess is they have already been killed or they are being hastily suppressed...

Revelation of John 6
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?" 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Reading on...

12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake...

It's all in the manual... ;)
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Message 243833 - Posted: 6 Feb 2006, 22:34:49 UTC - in response to Message 243759.  
Last modified: 6 Feb 2006, 22:48:28 UTC

I agree with this post, atleast in its intent. Seriously a cartoon in Jutland of all places that ivoked no response from the local muslims is suddenly all over the islamic world; I am suspicious. Nevertheless we now have Europeans ready to defend the right of freedom of speech. We have the islamic world insulted and ready to fight for purity of doctrine. Hum I just wonder whose little war that isn't going to well this sort of distraction would aid. I am suspicious. Iran and palestine have been ignored for a long time now; I doubt that palestine bothers to many decision makes. (To the shame of the western world but really it can be written off as just craziness that can't be solved) The war though is on the front burner for elections coming and well just for the hell of it. I apologise for being so cynical but I am. \\

The real problem that raises it's ugly head for us how are believers (I am Christian) is the extremes in every camp. If they are allowed to set the agenda for religion, then we are in deep trouble-Oh where are those good men and women that will stand up against evil. Peace Les

There is a more sinister possible origin for the rioting, and that is to demonstrate to moderate Muslims that the radical Muslims can put them in a world of hurt very quickly with the flimsiest of justifications.

Could there really have been that many Danish flags in the region just in case they were needed for burning at some indeterminent time? It is obvious the begining wave of demonstrations was orchestrated.



First, the Danish "flags" they burn, are not flags, it's cloths painted as the Danish flag "Dannebrog". I even saw a piece of plastic (at least it looked like plastic) painted with the red with the white cross, being burned.

I watched a debate on tv last night about this unhappy case, and all participants in this debate, politicians, represents of Muslim organisations here, and Middle East experts, all said that there's a different agenda in all this. It may very well being the setoff of a "battle" between the European traditions of democracy and freedom of speach, and the Arabic world's totalitarian regimes and interpretations of Islam.

But something that may have been missed out in the information to the rest of the world, is that a group of imams have travelled across several countries in the Islamic world to "explain" the drawings http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/658, so if they didn't notice them before, their attention was certainly drawed to them after the visits of the imams. One of the imams have been caught in saying in English on Danish tv, that he regrets so much the situation, but in Arabic on Arabic tv, saying the opposite, that he supports the outrage against Denmark. The very same imam, who said in a direct tv program in a discussion about religions, that we, the Danish women, have deserved to be raped, because we don't wear a burqa!

But last night another of these imams were present in the debate program and he doesn't take any responsibility for pouring gasoline on the fire at all. He kept on with his demands that the Danish Primeminister should apologize to the Arabic world, which is not gonna happen.

A Danish politician, Naser Khader, who comes from Syria, were very astounded by the embassy burnings in Damaskus, because, as he said, Syria had throwed almost all the radical Muslim organisations out of the country, and he said that the flags shown on the photos of the angry mob, were not able to get easily in Syria. He said that the movements from Al-Aqsa and Hamas are not represented in Syria at all. So his oppinion is that other forces are in play here. He has, as a result of the reaction from the imams here, founded a new organisation here for Moderate Muslims.

The two Middle East experts couldn't predict how this case will end. They both indicated that something very new is waiting, a new movement, and maybe the gab between Europe and the Muslim countries may be even wider.


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Message 243892 - Posted: 7 Feb 2006, 0:35:56 UTC

Need I say more...


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Message 243952 - Posted: 7 Feb 2006, 3:21:58 UTC

'Need I say more...'


"Prior to my search for the truth, I had never seriously considered Islam as an option because of the constant negative portrayal of Muslims in the media. Similarly, it was disclosed in this videotape that although Islam, is characterized by high moral standards, not all Muslims uphold these standards. I learned the same can be said about adherents of other religions. I finally understood that we cannot judge a religion by the actions of its followers alone, as I had done, because all humans are fallible. On that account, we should not judge Islam by the actions of its proponents, but by its revelation (the Holy Qur'an) and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)."
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Message 244131 - Posted: 7 Feb 2006, 17:06:09 UTC

I'm beginning to think wolf, in sheeps clothing!
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Message 244255 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 1:08:05 UTC
Last modified: 8 Feb 2006, 1:29:58 UTC

If you were referring to me, a sheep amongst the wolves would be more appropriate... ;)

Woe to all who say good is evil and evil is good...
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