I only mentioned the Arab main media, which is a start. I would be a
fool not to realize that there is a very large group of Muslims in the middle
east, and else where, which are in full support of these terrorists. They're
too stupid to realize that they're only going to bring their whole house down
around themselves, sooner or later. To those radicalized Arabs all I have to
say is, beware of what you wish/pray for, you just might get it.

I understood that, but sometimes the Arab media say somewhat different things
to their English audience . . .

It will take time.
Muslems are where we were 300 years ago with Kingdoms and Fiefdoms and
all powerfull dictators.
King "Off with her head!!" Henry VIII was but one example.
Muslems, just like us, are held back by their religion.
I have heard it said that but for Christianity
we could have put a man on the moon 300 years ago!
To my knowledge the Pope still hasn't apologised for killing Copernicus
or putting Galilleo under house arrest,
nor have the church given either of
them a full pardon, even after it became obvious that GOD agreed with Copernicus and not with the Pope!!
Muslims also are not allowed to question their "Book",
they are expected to accept it without question and to question GOD is considered heresy.
Does that ring any bells??
I recently got into a heated argument with a Christian
who pointed out that Iran fought Iraq for nine years, both sides called it "Holy War" and between them they killed four million Muslims.

We did the same on a much grander scale!!
During the Great War and the World war both sides went to church on Sunday...
Love thy neighbour, forgive thine enemy, turn the other cheek, thou shalt not kill etc...
then came out of church and continued killing Christians!
On Christmas day 1917 there was an impromptue cease fire and "Tommy's" and "Fritz's" exchanged Xmas gifts,
played a game of football in no-mans land and sang Christmas carols together,
then went back to killing each other the next day.
Americans fire bombed Tokyo and nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing more than half a million
and wiping out all hospitals and medical facilities.
Brits and Yanks leveled Dresden with 1000-bomber raids, the Germans killed 6 Million Jews and the Russians were notorious for
not taking prisoners.
The IRA have been bombing the British mainland for decades,
with Irish-American support.
All of the above are recent history, less than 90 years spans all of those attrocities.
Do we really have the right to be so self righteous with so many
skeletons in our closet?
I have heard it said that the worst thing that ever happened to Islam was OIL!
Because of the oil we dragged Islamic nations into the 20th century and gave them all
the toys and goodies of modern civilisation, on a plate.
Hence the technology gap. Arabs have never had to compete in a commercial
world, build a car, a plane, a ship etc. until now.

We used religion as a tool to keep the serfs down, "Religion is the opiate of the common people"
Now Arabs are suffering the same backlash from too much religion and not enough education, just as we did.

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I couldn't agree more.

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Join TeamACC

Sometimes I think we are alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we are not. In either case the idea is quite staggering.

@ Whiskey - WIthout any difficultly, I can only agree with what you have said, all I could do is add some more which wouldn't change the context of your post one bit. The atrocites of the crusades comes to mind especially the Second Crusade which never got to the "Holy Land." But rather sacked and destroy the Byzsantium Empire, which was Christian, sacking Constaninople and removing everything of value to Venice, Italy. But that's another story; thousands actually. Too bad we couldn't agree on more things, or at least agree to disagree. We all have our own prejudices and fears, it's only a matter of degree. That does not make them right. Some of mine I have to fight every day.

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Account frozen...

I only mentioned the Arab main media, which is a start. I would be a
fool not to realize that there is a very large group of Muslims in the middle
east, and else where, which are in full support of these terrorists. They're
too stupid to realize that they're only going to bring their whole house down
around themselves, sooner or later. To those radicalized Arabs all I have to
say is, beware of what you wish/pray for, you just might get it.

I understood that, but sometimes the Arab media say somewhat different things
to their English audience . . .

What you say is also true, it also depends where the story is originating from.

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Dog,

Too bad we couldn't agree on more things, or at least agree to disagree.

Nice to find something on which we do agree.
Can we agree to differ on the subject which I promised never to mention again?

To those radicalized Arabs all I have to
say is, beware of what you wish/pray for, you just might get it.

and therein lies the problem. They don't know what they want beyond kicking
the Infidel out of the Holy Lands. They will still want all the Christian Goodies of course just as the Taliban did!

Another quote comes to mind...
Admiral Tojo after Pearl Harbour.....
Gentlemen, I fear that we have just grabbed a tiger by the tail!

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Aren't you getting a might off topic?

.o0(Your core philosophy.) :p

I feel offended.

Then my work here is complete.

Aren't you getting a might off topic?

.o0(Your core philosophy.) :p

I feel offended. Say you're sorry of the BOTD thread gets it. [pre](typo included)[pre]

Like the Republican controled press you left something out.

[b]And I don't think that this is the appropriate thread to make "funnies."
Remember, what we're discussing is innocent people getting killed,
not drowling over mammalary glands. FYI.

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@Whiskey.

I agree totally with your reasoned and considered comments.

I would also like to quote something from the same era, if I may?

Admiral Yamamoto - I fear we have done nothing but awaken a sleeping dragon.


My concern is, in this day and age, is that something to celebrate or fear?

As for now? My heart still goes out to those who struggle under the Hell which is commonly regarded as terrorism. But, I for one (as a Brit) know full well the resilience and strength of character of Londoners and applaud their strength and commitment to all they hold dear.

My prayers go with the dead...

My hopes are with the living.

It will be a long and difficult road, but, together and in peace, we COULD all make this world a beautiful place to live.

If only the lunatics who perform the actions typified by yesterdays atrocities could see that.

Kindest Regards

Tony

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I may be getting older but I refuse to grow up!

Please, let's get it right.

Admiral Yamamoto's famous quote:
"I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and aroused in him a terrible resolve."

Please, let's get it right.

Admiral Yamamoto's famous quote:
"I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and aroused in him a terrible resolve."

That was a line in the movie, Tora, Tora, Tora. What the admiral actually said is unknown. But it sounds right.

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Account frozen...

Please, let's get it right.

Admiral Yamamoto's famous quote:
"I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and aroused in him a terrible resolve."

That was a line in the movie, Tora, Tora, Tora. What the admiral actually said is unknown. But it sounds right.

It was also aledged that he said this at the time:
"It does not do to slit the throat of a sleeping man."

I don't usually post guidelines for posting in the threads I create, as I usually don't care if people start posting off topic.

But does the right quote really matter here, where an act of terror has killed and injured people?

I know this may feel irrelevant for some of you, but I will appreciate if you could show respect for this tragedy and specially for the people in London now! I showed respect for the Americans back in 2001 after 9/11 and for the Spanish last year and I feel very deeply for the situation right now!

Thank you very much!

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

you Americans

stereotypical racist comment not needed in this thread either

For once, I agree with Misfit. That was not needed and uncalled for, Fuzzy. You could have worded it differently.

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you Americans

stereotypical racist comment not needed in this thread either

For once, I agree with Misfit. That was not needed and uncalled for, Fuzzy. You could have worded it differently.

I'm sorry for stereotyping! I didn't mean to do this, this will be edited in my post above!

[EDIT] With this done!

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Britain, world leaders show proper resolve

UNION-TRIBUNE EDITORIAL

July 8, 2005

It is supposed to be the case that as an occurence becomes more common, the shock value diminishes. But that rule doesn't apply to terrorism.

The world learned that lesson again this week as it struggled to make sense of a scene that has become all too familiar in the post-Sept. 11, 2001, world and yet which still seems difficult to absorb. The piles of broken glass. The clouds of black smoke. The people carried from the wreckage, battered and bloodied. The mass murder of innocents by monsters content to sacrifice the lives of others to make a political statement that no one will heed anyway.

First New York. Then Madrid. This time, "ground zero" was London, where four separate bomb explosions yesterday ripped apart three subway trains and a double-decker bus during morning rush hour, killing more than three dozen people and wounding more than 700.

After the attacks, an outfit affiliated with al-Qaeda claimed responsibility and insisted that the carnage was meant to punish the British for joining the U.S.-led wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

That shows how much the terrorists know. They've spent too much time plotting world destruction, and not enough time studying world history. You don't punish the British. Our friends across the pond are a tough and resilient bunch who have survived two world wars and countless skirmishes around the globe from Africa to India to the Falkland Islands. In fact, London has been bombed many times before. Most famously, the city was assaulted from the air by Hitler's Third Reich for 57 straight days during the autumn of 1940. And what did Londoners do? They put on their coats and went to the theater. And then they went on to endure many more years of bombings at the hands of radicals in the Irish Republican Army. The British didn't bend through any of that, and they won't bend now.

Because of the timing of the attacks, it's a safe bet that they were also intended to steal the spotlight away from the Group of 8 summit in Gleneagles, Scotland, and possibly even derail the meeting altogether.

In that objective too, the terrorists failed. Although British Prime Minister Tony Blair excused himself for most of yesterday's agenda to return to London, he urged his G-8 colleagues to press on. They did. That is precisely the right response. In fact, it's the only acceptable response to terrorism. You stand up to it. You defeat it. You persevere against it. And you certainly never yield to it.

Speaking to reporters, Blair made it clear that he knows what the stakes are in this global battle against evil and what it will take to win. "It is important," he said, "that those engaged in terrorism realize that our determination to defend our values and our way of life is greater than their determination to cause death and destruction to innocent people in a desire to impose extremism on the world."

By nightfall, Blair had returned to Gleneagles and the work of the summit. He returned to the warm embrace of a unified band of world leaders who had come to Scotland prepared to fight out their differences, but who emerged united in common cause to confront and defeat terrorism wherever it lurks.

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me@rescam.org

That article is right on target.

If you look back on Arab history for the past 50 years, in general (there are some exceptions), all they've
managed to do is shoot themselves in the foot time and again. Terrorism doesn't highlight anyones plight, but rather makes people hate the group from where they originate. They've got themselves
caught in one vicious daisey chain of denial and self perpetuating myths. Rant over.

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If you look back on Arab history for the past 50 years, in general (there are some exceptions), all they've
managed to do is shoot themselves in the foot time and again. Terrorism doesn't highlight anyones plight, but rather makes people hate the group from where they originate. They've got themselves
caught in one vicious daisey chain of denial and self perpetuating myths. Rant over.

Examples please?

Arabs are natives of Arabia.
Palestinians, Egyptians, Afghani's and Iranians are not Arabs.
Jordanians are borderline and Iraq under Saddam's rule was despised by Arabs
who are now helping to rebuild Iraq.

Saudi Arabia disowned and kicked out Bin Laden and more than a hundred Saudi
Security forces have died in gun battles with extremists.
ARABS are trying very hard to clean house and distance themselves from Muslim
extremists who are hated and despised by all good Muslims.

On the BBC and CNN I am hearing the same confusion between ARAB and Muslim.
When the terrorists who perpetrated the London bombings are identified you may
well find that there are Saudi's amongst them as there were in 9/11 but
similarly you will find that they were not trained, supplied or directed by
Saudi Arabia.

I have lived and worked with, and amongst, Arabs for 26 years and I do wish
that you had been here on 9/11 and could be here at this time to hear the conversation of decent Arabs.
They deeply sympathise with America, Spain and England and, like us, wish that
this madness would stop today so that we can all get on with our lives in
peace and harmony.

[b]Muslim Terroriststs are shooting ARABS in the back![b]

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Who would want to be a terrorist?

The fact that they are terrorists gives us a good idea of their mental state.
Who would choose to live every day in fear of discovery, to be always on the
move and looking behind you.
A life where the best you can hope for is to win the occassional skirmish but
never to win a battle let alone win the war.
Even if they score a goal as they have done in New York, Madrid and London they
can't publicly celebrate their success.

Extremists of any creed are as brainwashed as Germans were under
Hitler into believing that they are destined for greatness and glory and
world domination.

The best that Bin Laden and Omar can hope for is to die before they are caught
or to die in a shootout in some backwoods rathole.

Arabs regret that Saddam didn't have the guts to shoot himself as his sons did
because his trial will be very public and will drag on for years.

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I was in London on Tuesday with my orchestra and i walked down a few of the streets that were targeted. i feel so lucky that i didnt go one day later but i feel so sorry for all the people who have been affected by this barbaric act of terrorism and the people who are still missing.

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randomthoughts:
I glide upon the evening and dance upon the dawn with Sirius asmy guide and Canopus asmy friend

Some fear the dark but with friends like Orion,Cygnus and Andromeda one needs no fear

To me nature was mute, until i saw the stars