. . And while I should not continue the controversy I cannot help but re-iterate that the original posting was not political, merely a statement of forum policies in a slightly light hearted vein with the intention, as I see it, of dissuading users from having dummy spits and abusing other people. Sadly it has clearly not been successful.

It crossed the political line when it included the following:

In other words, if you want to be heard on the current controversy, try the Politics forum. Then use twitter, facebook, instagram and whatever social media you want. SETI@home in general and me in particular have no power to effect change of any sort.

It sounds like there's still going to be a riot in Berkeley tomorrow because a group of white supremacists and a group of left wing anarchists are ignoring commandments 2, 3, and 4. The people of Berkeley and the people of California will be picking up the tab for their "freedom of speech" whether they want to or not. And personally, I think that's what's been missing from the whole discussion.

But, I'm bowing out of this discussion now. Please never send another political message via the official notices. If I see that I will pull all of my machines from Seti. There are many other projects on them which would be glad of the additional cycles.[/quote]

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http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com
http://www.infiniteexposure.net
http://www.johnsmith-book.com
http://www.logikalblog.com
http://www.interestingauthors.com/blog
http://lesedi.us

I have been processing data for SETI@Home since 2000 and never had I expected there to be leftist racial politics here too. But I suppose it is everywhere now. Eric, it would have been better that you had not started it here. Calling people white supremacists when they are not then belittling them is undermining this project by bringing your politics into it. Go be a social justice warrior on facebook or somewhere else. I will take this opportunity to find better uses of my resources and leave SETI in the dung heap of leftist politics.

Matt.

Yet another example that a possible explanation could mean a possible "underpinning" as well.

Here about the case or subject of course and not the user.

I must point out that point 4 is patently false.

4. Thou shalt not force others to pay for the delivery of or the consequences of speech they may not agree with.

We all pay taxes which fund educational institutions and governments who say and do things we don't agree with each and every day. We pay for the speech, its delivery and its consequences and we are "forced" by virtue of governments and taxation to shoulder this burden. I have some examples for you.

...

My point is we are all forced to pay for this and it is the duty of government, henceforth by extension Universities, to spend obscene amounts of money on research nobody cares about, speeches which offend and publications which will only be read by a handful of people because one day they will have use.

Your point that Point 4 is "patently false" completely misses what Eric was saying. You then go on to discuss examples of paying with physical currency for research into ideas or things some people don't agree with, thus suggesting you think Eric was referring taxpayers paying for security, and therefore didn't understand what type of "pay" Eric is referring to.

When Eric said "Thou shalt not force others to pay for the delivery of or the consequences of speech they may not agree with." he was referring to holding others responsible for other's speech. The pentultimate example, and supported by the context of his entire first post, being people sending Eric nasty PMs or Facebook messages saying they're pulling their participation from the SETI@home project because of the protests or counterprotests at Berkeley is a prime example of making SETI pay for the speech of others.

In fact, you and others in this very thread of done exactly that, and thus violated number 4. If you or anyone else leave the project over speech you disagree with, you're no different than those you are condemning.

But, I'm bowing out of this discussion now. Please never send another political message via the official notices. If I see that I will pull all of my machines from Seti. There are many other projects on them which would be glad of the additional cycles.

Eric did say you're free to leave. Holding your own CPU cycles hostage and making demands of the project over something you disagree with is tantamount to extortion and a violation of Eric's right to free speech, and is a direct violation of number 4. If you're really going to let political commentary effect your interest in the goal of SETI, then perhaps you should question what it is you actually believe and support as Free Speech. And that goes for everyone else in this thread too.

I have had no idea anything was going on in the left coast. Plenty of nonsense here on the other one to deal with recently.

I'm just here to crunch numbers and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum.
Which is why I pretty much stick to Number crunching and the News sections.

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SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[

I have been processing data for SETI@Home since 2000 and never had I expected there to be leftist racial politics here too.

Really? You didn't expect liberal politics from Berkeley? You're acting all surprised so you can build up to making SETI pay for speech you disagree with so you can feel justified when you leave that you did the right thing.

Eric, it would have been better that you had not started it here. Calling people white supremacists when they are not then belittling them is...

The right thing to do when he correctly calls the group what they are.

undermining this project by bringing your politics into it. Go be a social justice warrior on facebook or somewhere else.

He's not undermining it at all. He's merely fed up with the messages and hate people spew over the internet because suddenly Alt-Right has been validated and taken center stage.

I will take this opportunity to find better uses of my resources and leave SETI in the dung heap of leftist politics.

One wonders why you even bothered to support a leftist group in the first place. Was it OK as long as they kept their mouths shut?

What's going on? I can't understand from France.

. . Basically as I understand it, a couple of groups of extremists, some pro-Trump and some anti-Trump, have decided to use the Berkeley University campus as a battleground to "express" their points of view, in the most violent and destructive manner they can come up with. This in turn has aroused strong feelings/reactions in other people, many of whom are not in California, who are expressing their own brand of extremism by abusing Eric via the Seti forums and general social media, blaming him and the other staff of the Seti project for being part of the UC structure. Not that the UC heirarchy are in any way that I am aware of implicated in the activities apart from trying to maintain the security of the spaces they are responsible for. But it seems that extremism is currently "la mode a la jour" . :(

Stephen

:(

Nice sum up of whole issue.

Yeah thanks for translating that for me too...:-)

When Eric said "Thou shalt not force others to pay for the delivery of or the consequences of speech they may not agree with." he was referring to holding others responsible for other's speech. The pentultimate example, and supported by the context of his entire first post, being people sending Eric nasty PMs or Facebook messages saying they're pulling their participation from the SETI@home project because of the protests or counterprotests at Berkeley is a prime example of making SETI pay for the speech of others.

In fact, you and others in this very thread of done exactly that, and thus violated number 4. If you or anyone else leave the project over speech you disagree with, you're no different than those you are condemning.
.......
Holding your own CPU cycles hostage and making demands of the project over something you disagree with is tantamount to extortion and a violation of Eric's right to free speech, and is a direct violation of number 4. If you're really going to let political commentary effect your interest in the goal of SETI, then perhaps you should question what it is you actually believe and support as Free Speech. And that goes for everyone else in this thread too.

Well-formulated. Just added bold for especially relevant parts.

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SETI apps news
We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them.

One wonders why you even bothered to support a leftist group in the first place. Was it OK as long as they kept their mouths shut?

Can't agree with this. We are here not to support left or right. We are here to participate in SETI. That's why it should not be important who carries this research (left or right) as long as he doing this scientifically correctly.
Also, that's why it's quite important not to mix political views with scientific work. That's why we have (better we never had it at all IMHO) "Politics" part clearly separated from all the rest.
This thread in "News" and it's real issue IMO.

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SETI apps news
We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them.

Well stated

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One wonders why you even bothered to support a leftist group in the first place. Was it OK as long as they kept their mouths shut?

Can't agree with this. We are here not to support left or right. We are here to participate in SETI.

That was precisely my point. Should it matter if SETI is located in Berkeley and Berkeley has always been known for their liberal views? Should it matter if even the Project Administrators have liberal/leftist views? All that should matter is that you support the endeavor. Those that are offended or upset by Eric correctly labeling a group as white supremecists shouldn't care what his views are, or they are being hipocrites when they demend equal time to espouse their views publicly.

Also, that's why it's quite important not to mix political views with scientific work. That's why we have (better we never had it at all IMHO) "Politics" part clearly separated from all the rest.
This thread in "News" and it's real issue IMO.

Impossible to keep politics and science from spilling over into each other. All throughout history science has challenged many of our assumptions, and in return public opinion (truly, politics) has been swayed for and against science. Scientific minded people have tried keeping themselves seperate for as long as they reasonably could, believing the same as you, but I think the March for Science on April 22nd proved that scientists don't believe that can be done anymore. I, for one, am glad that they have decided to speak up.

I do not understand why they will threat SETI@home. It's ridiculous. Anyway I still support your team and thanks for your hardworking. Looking forward to get some news after the project finished.

...the UC administration neither knows nor cares that SETI@home exists. Threats of
quitting SETI@home or withholding donations will be about as effective as
kicking a stray dog because you don't like something the dog catcher did. They
won't notice. They don't care. They get no direct benefit from SETI@home, so
here will be no effect on them, or the on University. We could shut off our
servers tomorrow, and nobody in Sproul Hall would notice a thing.

So, if In The Middle of The Night on A Holiday Weekend, Everything Concerning SETI@HOME is REMOVED and Brought to A Privately Owned Building, away from Campus, UCB would not CARE or NOTICE?

Then GET in Gear and DO IT!!!

With ALL THE WAYS To FUND these Days, it Would Be A CINCH to Take This mO fO, PRIVATE.

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, YOU ALL AIN'T GOT ANY DESIRE to STRIKE OUT, on Your Own.

But, Wait A Minute. The Above Quote says: WE ARE ON OUR OWN.

SO, WHAT IS IT? On Your Own or Not On Your Own?

Eh?

Yeah, I Get It. I Get It, REAL GOoD.

Vaporous Free Speech AS USUAL. And WE NOTICE.

Empty Space Yappin' as Usual

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

I haven't paid much attention to this discussion, but a lot of things happen at Berkeley that have nothing to do with SETI. Most Americans understand that, but apparently a lot of people outside the U.S. don't get it. Moving the servers will not improve anything, and would probably make SETI worse. Berkeley is a great school by the way.

Please close this thread, and send it into a black hole. Eric does not deserve all the crap he gets from you know what kind of people.

Agree!!!

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http://boinc.mundayweb.com/teamStats.php?userID=14824

Please close this thread, and send it into a black hole. Eric does not deserve all the crap he gets from you know what kind of people.

Agree!!!

+ another.

Cheers.

Please close this thread, and send it into a black hole. Eric does not deserve all the crap he gets from you know what kind of people.

Eric doesn't doesn't deserve it, but to show that Seti doesn't censor speech let it say open until it autolocks from lack of posts.

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autolocks from lack of posts.

I give it 18 months or so.
But given the general state of world affairs at the moment & looking forwards, it could easily rattle on till the end of the project and the forums are closed down.

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Grant
Darwin NT

One wonders why you even bothered to support a leftist group in the first place. Was it OK as long as they kept their mouths shut?

Can't agree with this. We are here not to support left or right. We are here to participate in SETI.

That was precisely my point. Should it matter if SETI is located in Berkeley and Berkeley has always been known for their liberal views? Should it matter if even the Project Administrators have liberal/leftist views? All that should matter is that you support the endeavor. Those that are offended or upset by Eric correctly labeling a group as white supremecists shouldn't care what his views are, or they are being hipocrites when they demend equal time to espouse their views publicly.

As I said in a earlier post-
I find it interesting the number of people in this thread proclaiming their support for the right to free speech, but only as long as it supports their views.
If you don't support their view then apparently you have no right to speak at all.
*rolls eyes*

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Grant
Darwin NT

Thank God for the existence, the wisdom and the gift of expressing things eloquently, Mr. Korpela ! I mention God as in the CREATOR, anybody working with SETI surely appreciates that in some profound way ! I'm running SETI since Aug. 1999 I think, you can pinpoint that better than me ! For the past year or so, things are falling apart, what with CUDA Complaints, latest Norton sticking it's nose into SETI business and NVIDIA DEBUGGING ending with "Exception Thrown" ! My 8 CPU and 2 GPU Unit was built in 2010 by local "Computer Outlet Direct"(COD) with the AIM of "Producing 100'000 Credits" 24/7 ! Highest it ever got was around 30'000, and now it's struggling to make consistently 9'000 ! So, pardon my FRENCH, there are Day's and Moments, where I express my Frustrations in half Dozen Idioms, some only understood and appreciated by a few thousand Swiss ! I admit, that I am an IT IDIOT ! I "worked" on a IBM unit the size of a 6 Wheeler Truck Cargo Hold, back in 1971 in Germany during Engineering Studies, when such "Things" did less than an I-Phone Today ! I have trouble with I-Phones too, or visa versa ! Maybe the IT Folks live in their WORLD and I am I-Phone Things frustrated in mine ! My wife's Professions were Teacher, with 2 Graduate Degrees in Sociology and Psychology, last years she was a State Employed Therapist for Children ! She refuses to use an I-Phone ! She explains ; "It makes me feel STUPID" ! And since she does NOT CUSS, she has no way to vent those frustrations ! So, Mr. Korpela Sir, nowadays whether it's "Computers" or Politics, Folks are frustrated out of their Minds, because they are overwhelmed with things they do NOT Comprehend ! AND, CUSSING is a weak Mind trying to express it-selves ! So, where can You and I go from here to FIX my Unit ! I used to be in touch with Mike Bader, but over one year ago I got the feeling that these things got to be beyond his capabilities ; he did not consider my request to "Do a REMOTE analysis and fix" ! I would go to COD, but here again to them, it's a "Special Program", they'd rather NOT get Involved ! Thank you for your Patience; Do you have any Hints / Advise for me (Damned) ?

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