Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Cosmic_Ocean
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Message 1807123 - Posted: 4 Aug 2016, 20:58:26 UTC - in response to Message 1807102.  

Other than downloading an .iso of the pre-(april? nov? not sure)update version of it when I heard of all the issues that it was causing, I have for the most part pretty much been ignoring W10. So, one question I have is about Windows update, I've heard that by default is it on to always update everything, but isn't there a way to disable it in 10 like in previous versions?

I've heard much wailing and gnashing of teeth about it, but can't recall hearing about it being able to be shut off, other than I think possibly in a corporate version. Is this still true so long after release, no one has figured out a way to avoid nerfing your system with these auto updates that the Party has determined (and has been dictated thru the Ministry of Truth) that we all need?

You won't be able to pick and choose which updates you want unless you go with Enterprise LTSB (Long-Term Service Branch). All other versions are "all or nothing". Plain enterprise, and Pro can defer installing updates for up to 180 days, at which point, they will automatically be installed.

In ALL versions of 10, you can use the registry to turn updates off entirely (not recommended unless you understand the risks of not updating, etc) by going to:
HKLM\software\policies\microsoft\windows\windowsupdate\AU
And create a DWORD and set it to 1:
NoAutoUpdate:1

This is per a Technet page that shows all the options you can do with the registry for Windows Update.

I prefer going straight to the registry, because all versions of Windows can do that, whereas the 'Home' flavors don't have Group Policy Editor (which is basically a front-end for the registry).
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Message 1807153 - Posted: 4 Aug 2016, 22:49:03 UTC - in response to Message 1807123.  

And I'm presuming that it will take an act of God for a non-volume licensed, or should I say a non-enterprise licensed individual to acquire such a version, if it's even possible at all? Doesn't leave us end users with many good options after 2020 then, sadly, when are going to get XP'ed. Unless we suck it up and move to 8, to buy a couple more years. I guess the saying is accurate, Resistance is Futile, you will be Assimilated...

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Message 1807157 - Posted: 4 Aug 2016, 23:07:44 UTC - in response to Message 1807153.  

And I'm presuming that it will take an act of God for a non-volume licensed, or should I say a non-enterprise licensed individual to acquire such a version, if it's even possible at all? Doesn't leave us end users with many good options after 2020 then, sadly, when are going to get XP'ed. Unless we suck it up and move to 8, to buy a couple more years. I guess the saying is accurate, Resistance is Futile, you will be Assimilated...


Their is always Linux.
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Message 1807180 - Posted: 5 Aug 2016, 0:23:35 UTC - in response to Message 1807157.  

And I'm presuming that it will take an act of God for a non-volume licensed, or should I say a non-enterprise licensed individual to acquire such a version, if it's even possible at all? Doesn't leave us end users with many good options after 2020 then, sadly, when are going to get XP'ed. Unless we suck it up and move to 8, to buy a couple more years. I guess the saying is accurate, Resistance is Futile, you will be Assimilated...


Their is always Linux.

MAC OS!!! ;-) :-)


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Message 1807222 - Posted: 5 Aug 2016, 3:25:01 UTC - in response to Message 1807102.  

Other than downloading an .iso of the pre-(april? nov? not sure)update version of it when I heard of all the issues that it was causing, I have for the most part pretty much been ignoring W10. So, one question I have is about Windows update, I've heard that by default is it on to always update everything, but isn't there a way to disable it in 10 like in previous versions?

I've heard much wailing and gnashing of teeth about it, but can't recall hearing about it being able to be shut off, other than I think possibly in a corporate version. Is this still true so long after release, no one has figured out a way to avoid nerfing your system with these auto updates that the Party has determined (and has been dictated thru the Ministry of Truth) that we all need?

There's a tick box to Defer Updates. MS says this about that:

Defer upgrades in Windows 10

Some Windows 10 editions let you defer upgrades to your PC. When you defer upgrades, new Windows features won’t be downloaded or installed for several months. Deferring upgrades doesn’t affect security updates. Note that deferring upgrades will prevent you from getting the latest Windows features as soon as they’re available.

So, yes and no, like most other Win 10 things ...

There's also an option to choose how updates are delivered (this is slick, and scary):

Download updates and apps from other PCs

In addition to downloading updates and apps from Microsoft, Windows will get updates and apps from other PCs that already have them. You can choose which PCs you get these updates from:

PCs on your local network. When Windows downloads an update or app, it will look for other PCs on your local network that have already downloaded the update or app using Delivery Optimization. Windows then downloads parts of the file from those PCs and parts of the file from Microsoft. Windows doesn’t download the entire file from one place. Instead, the download is broken down into smaller parts. Windows uses the fastest, most reliable download source for each part of the file.

PCs on your local network and PCs on the Internet. Windows uses the same process as when getting updates and apps from PCs on your local network, and also looks for PCs on the Internet that can be used as a source to download parts of updates and apps.

Turn off. Get directly from MS only


So I upgraded 4 PCs, supposedly only downloaded the stuff once, but no way to tell. Definitely don't enable the PCs on the Internet part, only your local network. By being a getter, you are also a giver, or so it seems.

Better info here: http://www.howtogeek.com/223083/what-does-%e2%80%9cdefer-upgrades%e2%80%9d-in-windows-10-mean/
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Message 1807231 - Posted: 5 Aug 2016, 5:35:16 UTC - in response to Message 1807180.  
Last modified: 5 Aug 2016, 5:35:38 UTC

MAC OS!!!


yeah, but not anybody have the goods to install a hackintosh...
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Message 1807236 - Posted: 5 Aug 2016, 6:25:14 UTC - in response to Message 1807231.  

MAC OS!!!


yeah, but not anybody have the goods to install a hackintosh...

Any Intel based PC from 2008 onward can be turned into a Hackintosh. :-) Plus, there's real MACs too... ;-)


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Message 1807258 - Posted: 5 Aug 2016, 11:17:57 UTC - in response to Message 1807222.  

The Pirate M$ Bay, the No 1 torrent site for updates :-)
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Message 1808679 - Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 8:32:36 UTC

Greetings,

So, now that the year of hell is over, do we still need to keep watch over Window$ updates if we're not running Window$ 10? Will Micro$oft have all those nagware updates pulled? Or, will they update them to nag us to upgrade by buying 10 from their "App Store" or wherever?

Just asking since I still have updates turned off and Win7 is supposed to be alive 'til what, 2020 if I remember correctly. I would like to keep my Win7 up-to-date on the updates and whatnot.

Peace! :)
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Message 1808722 - Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 14:28:52 UTC

A really good question, but i also don't know the answer! :?

I suspect, the enhanced sniffing technologies will still be pushed to 7 and 8.1 machines though...
Aloha, Uli

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Message 1808725 - Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 15:21:52 UTC - in response to Message 1808679.  
Last modified: 12 Aug 2016, 15:29:04 UTC

So, now that the year of hell is over, do we still need to keep watch over Window$ updates if we're not running Window$ 10? Will Micro$oft have all those nagware updates pulled?

See fifth sentence here.

On another note:
Microsoft to support Skylake on Windows 7 and 8.1 after all.
    "Many users saw this as another attempt by Microsoft to get customers to upgrade to Windows 10 or buy devices that ship with Windows 10 installed as the operating system."

Chicken Little advertising, then a complete 180.

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Message 1808892 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016, 15:18:21 UTC - in response to Message 1808722.  

A really good question, but i also don't know the answer! :?

I suspect, the enhanced sniffing technologies will still be pushed to 7 and 8.1 machines though...

Thanks Uli. :)

I guess I will keep my PC as-is for the time being until I figure out what I'm going to do about updates.

Peace! :)
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Message 1808894 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016, 15:21:13 UTC - in response to Message 1808725.  

So, now that the year of hell is over, do we still need to keep watch over Window$ updates if we're not running Window$ 10? Will Micro$oft have all those nagware updates pulled?

See fifth sentence here.

On another note:
Microsoft to support Skylake on Windows 7 and 8.1 after all.
    "Many users saw this as another attempt by Microsoft to get customers to upgrade to Windows 10 or buy devices that ship with Windows 10 installed as the operating system."

Chicken Little advertising, then a complete 180.


I guess Micro$oft decided not to do with Skylake like they tried to do with UEFI.

Thanks for the info Dave. :)

Peace! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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Message 1808895 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016, 15:28:47 UTC
Last modified: 13 Aug 2016, 15:29:59 UTC

Greetings,

Another question that just came to me:

A while back I predicted that Micro$oft would disable the red-X so people had no choice but to install Window$ 10. It turned out that I was almost dead on; they changed the red-X to an "OK" button.

What's to stop Micro$oft from changing the Updates program for Win7 and 8.1 so that you no long have a choice what updates to install and you cannot turn updates off just like with Window$ 10?

Any comment from programmers out here? Can and will they do it?

Peace! :)

[edit] As you can tell, I do not trust Micro$oft. ;) [/edit]
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Message 1808942 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016, 19:16:16 UTC - in response to Message 1808895.  

What's to stop Micro$oft from changing the Updates program for Win7 and 8.1 so that you no long have a choice what updates to install and you cannot turn updates off just like with Window$ 10?

Theoretically, they certainly could do that. It would require that you get a new version of the Update Client though, I would imagine, anyway.

Personally, I haven't updated in a while, because the June rollup contained a new update client. The July rollup replaced the June one, and added one or two more fixes. So the last update I've done was in May.

I just checked WSUS and I see a whole pile of individual updates came out this week, so to me, it appears as though those last two months leading up to the "end" of the free upgrade period were deliberately done with rollups so that if you wanted the security fixes, you would be required to also get the new Update Client. I have absolutely no idea what the risks of that new Update Client are, but I'm still erring on the side of caution that all Update Clients after June 2015 (they're all listed in list to avoid) are not to be trusted.

There IS a catch-22 that some people may want/need, which is the October 2015 one that fixes the memory leak and consuming a CPU core for hours during checking for updates. That does get fixed in that version, but I'm still not trusting it since there were reports around that time that the new Update Clients were automatically downloading everything in the avoid list--in the background, without asking for permission, nor telling you that it had done so.

Call that FUD if you want, but I'm keeping my system clean, even if it takes two hours to check for updates and uses nearly 3gb of RAM.
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Message 1809315 - Posted: 15 Aug 2016, 13:32:39 UTC - in response to Message 1808942.  

What's to stop Micro$oft from changing the Updates program for Win7 and 8.1 so that you no long have a choice what updates to install and you cannot turn updates off just like with Window$ 10?

Theoretically, they certainly could do that. It would require that you get a new version of the Update Client though, I would imagine, anyway.

Personally, I haven't updated in a while, because the June rollup contained a new update client. The July rollup replaced the June one, and added one or two more fixes. So the last update I've done was in May.

I just checked WSUS and I see a whole pile of individual updates came out this week, so to me, it appears as though those last two months leading up to the "end" of the free upgrade period were deliberately done with rollups so that if you wanted the security fixes, you would be required to also get the new Update Client. I have absolutely no idea what the risks of that new Update Client are, but I'm still erring on the side of caution that all Update Clients after June 2015 (they're all listed in list to avoid) are not to be trusted.

There IS a catch-22 that some people may want/need, which is the October 2015 one that fixes the memory leak and consuming a CPU core for hours during checking for updates. That does get fixed in that version, but I'm still not trusting it since there were reports around that time that the new Update Clients were automatically downloading everything in the avoid list--in the background, without asking for permission, nor telling you that it had done so.

Call that FUD if you want, but I'm keeping my system clean, even if it takes two hours to check for updates and uses nearly 3gb of RAM.

Hi Cosmic,

I would surmise, then, that those of us not running 10 are pretty much stuck without updates unless we want the headaches that come with the MS update client.

Thanks! :)

Peace! :)
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Message 1809440 - Posted: 15 Aug 2016, 19:00:26 UTC - in response to Message 1809315.  


Hi Cosmic,

I would surmise, then, that those of us not running 10 are pretty much stuck without updates unless we want the headaches that come with the MS update client.

Thanks! :)

Peace! :)

Well, that's a risk that you would have to decide if you're willing to take or not. I don't know if the newer/newest Update Clients do the shady background things that some of the older ones were shown to do last year, but I'd rather be cautious and not take that risk by not installing any of them. It is unfortunate that you have to avoid the whole update rollup that has good security fixes for other things, all because you don't want the new update client.

Rollups defeat the purpose of granular control for enterprise environments, because now they can't pick and choose updates that break things or cause new problems. For instance, if one of those security fixes in a rollup causes problems, but everything else is fine, you would have to avoid the entire rollup, leaving yourself exposed to the vulnerabilities that were fixed in other things, all because one patch within the rollup broke something.

I just find it a bit interesting that in the last two months of trying to con people into moving to 10, they went with the rollup route, and as soon as August came around.. back to individual updates again. I find that to be quite suspect, like it was an underhanded tactic.



For at least June and July, if you didn't want the new Update Client, then you had to avoid updates entirely. But August seems to have gone back to individual updates. We'll see if that continues. You'll have to investigate every update from now on, of course, but it looks like at least some updates can be trusted--for now. I didn't find any for the August batch that were suspicious, and when I saw that it was all individual updates, I did look to see if any of those KB numbers matched the ones that were included in the June or July rollups, and they were not.

There may come a time when you just have to turn updates off altogether and get yourself a good A/V, use an ad blocker (and/or NoScript) and be cautious and selective about the sites you go to for added assurance. If you do it right, you can do a vanilla 7 install and never get a single update and still do 99.9% of your everyday tasks without being vulnerable to exploits. Being behind a hardware firewall (basically all home routers) is a major step in that.
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Message 1809511 - Posted: 16 Aug 2016, 3:09:23 UTC - in response to Message 1809440.  

But August seems to have gone back to individual updates. We'll see if that continues.

You'll see in October.

This is how MS treats its customers.  The first line is spoken by Satya.
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Message 1809536 - Posted: 16 Aug 2016, 4:23:54 UTC - in response to Message 1809511.  

This is how MS treats its customers.  The first line is spoken by Satya.

Yeah, basically ...
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Message 1809686 - Posted: 16 Aug 2016, 21:12:15 UTC

There might still be some hope for me after all..

Microsoft will also create security-only updates that include all the security fixes released each month, without any reliability or feature changes. These updates won't be cumulative. They will only be offered via WSUS and SCCM; WU users won't see them.

I'll see how that actually works when the time comes.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
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