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Message 1355082 - Posted: 9 Apr 2013, 20:52:25 UTC - in response to Message 1355037.  

Apologising after the fact.....

Is there any other kind?

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Message 1355156 - Posted: 10 Apr 2013, 2:34:46 UTC - in response to Message 1354994.  

Thatcherism was a national catastrophe that still poisons us

Also, speaking of the company people keep, check out some of the unsavoury characters that Thatcher hung around with.

If you need a list I will supply one later on.

Thank you Hev, but no, I don't actually require a list - from you.



Well, you can have one from me then, here is one someone else compiled. Sadly it is not comprehensive. She really was the worst thing that happened to the UK.

I am sorry to see so many apologists here. I had hoped you had more sense.

"

Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and polarising politic leader of the last century. This is an incomplete list of why many of us fall on the side that does not regard her with anything other than odium…

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation"
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Message 1355172 - Posted: 10 Apr 2013, 3:49:47 UTC - in response to Message 1355156.  

Wow! All I can say to that list is "what a load of vitriol!" & I was a diehard labour & union member throughout all that time period.

Tell me BHL, JUST WHY hasn't any party & it's leader since 1990 done it's best to rectify the "calamitous disasters" you've listed?

There are of course several in that list which is pure B/S - I'll let you track those down as you seem so sure of your "facts"

If memory serves me correctly, I can recall struggling under Wilson & then Callaghan with income tax at 33% at one point, or did I imagine that?
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Message 1355194 - Posted: 10 Apr 2013, 5:46:16 UTC

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Message 1355218 - Posted: 10 Apr 2013, 6:33:32 UTC

Ex top cop: "Margaret Thatcher took us to the brink of becoming a police state"

I don't think the ex deputy chief constable of Greater Manchester, John Stalker, is by any means a bleeding heart liberal.
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Message 1355231 - Posted: 10 Apr 2013, 7:03:36 UTC - in response to Message 1355218.  

You're just confirming what I've posted. "Took to the brink" Did we get there?

23 years ago....what about since then?

BBC again....... Blair Brown Cameron

More than enough time to put a halt to "Thatcherism"

13 years of lefties - did they change anything?

Nope, just spend spend spend & lined their own pockets as well & when booted out of power, every time claim that the rich & elites subjugating the workers.....

...vote us back in as the elite & rich going to stuff us further.

Catch 22 then isn't it! Hmmmn, whatever happened to the USSR?
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Message 1355235 - Posted: 10 Apr 2013, 7:31:01 UTC - in response to Message 1355231.  

I'm glad my father moved to Australia in 1972 didn't have to put up with all that nonsence

But just goes to show you Bloody Liberals F$%k things up every where they are elected any more than 1 term and they change to much to quickly !972 -!980 Liberals here stuffed this country up too

And I spose any more than 3 terms Labour goes to far to socialisum

WE the the meek and poor can't win eather way

Now where is that gun and that bullet I was keeping for myself ,time to check out as it's the only option left
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Message 1355252 - Posted: 10 Apr 2013, 9:37:11 UTC - in response to Message 1355231.  

You're just confirming what I've posted. "Took to the brink" Did we get there?

23 years ago....what about since then?

BBC again....... Blair Brown Cameron

More than enough time to put a halt to "Thatcherism"

13 years of lefties - did they change anything?

Nope, just spend spend spend & lined their own pockets as well & when booted out of power, every time claim that the rich & elites subjugating the workers.....

...vote us back in as the elite & rich going to stuff us further.

Catch 22 then isn't it! Hmmmn, whatever happened to the USSR?


I agree with you. I left the Labour Party with many other people when Blair took away clause IV in 1995. Blair/Brown, they are of the same ilk as Cameron. "New Labour" moved to the right and there is no way it could be called a party of the "lefties".

The Labour Party should have put a halt to thatcherism, but didn't, they carried on the neoliberal project.

I look forward to the day when Blair is put on trial for war crimes
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Message 1355254 - Posted: 10 Apr 2013, 9:54:43 UTC - in response to Message 1355252.  

Oww Hev you do realise no way in hell is he gona be on trial after all there gona have to put G.W.B and John Howard too on trial . All 3 where in it togeather . What party was Blair , John howard was a Liberal and G.W.B was a Republican (Liberal) , so was Blair ?. If so that says a lot about Liberal's

Bloody war mongers

Liberals only good for 1 thing F45king things up and starting unnessary wars (only Iraq) not Afganistan
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Message 1355397 - Posted: 10 Apr 2013, 17:46:31 UTC - in response to Message 1355172.  

Wow! All I can say to that list is "what a load of vitriol!" & I was a diehard labour & union member throughout all that time period.

Tell me BHL, JUST WHY hasn't any party & it's leader since 1990 done it's best to rectify the "calamitous disasters" you've listed?

There are of course several in that list which is pure B/S - I'll let you track those down as you seem so sure of your "facts"

If memory serves me correctly, I can recall struggling under Wilson & then Callaghan with income tax at 33% at one point, or did I imagine that?

A grasp on reality, today the UK is in a worse financial position then it was
back in the 70's during Thatchers early term. The next incumbent to grab the
mantle whilst sitting in No.10 who's vocation is to put the UK back on it's
feet again will have to be more that an iron lady or man. They will have to be
titanium P.M. and their list of "supposedly" bad deeds to come will mean Es' will "Pale into
insignificance" when compared like for like to theirs.


The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1355497 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 0:42:16 UTC
Last modified: 11 Apr 2013, 0:44:19 UTC

Not sure why they are commenting on the death of a PM when they are no longer UK citizens??

Although there is no reason why they cannot, as Hev lived through Thatcher's Premiership. As for ES, she was a child of Thatcher, growing up then, but was totally unaffected by the PMs policies either by personal loss or experience ...
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1355511 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 1:47:33 UTC - in response to Message 1355260.  

@dear Chris I don't mean to offen but the use of Astreicks is something i'll probably have trouble not being able to use we have a very courlful language here in oz

It's never meant to offend

I had a copper tell me stop swearing or i'm gona arrest you ,I was at a train station and got searched for dugs not that I had any and got a rather pissed off, my answer to him was we have a very coulorful language if your taking offence to the way i'm talking then go to the airport and buy a ticket back to the place ya come from .He was of middle estern origin , his co worker behind him a ozzie woman officer was trying to stop laughing cause she knew that it wouldn't stand up in court in fact it's been thrown out 3 time before and the reason is and I quote "Australians have a coulorful language "

I have cleaned the conversation up just for you but you can imagine I was using the f word every second . So please don't ever take offence to a ozzie swearing it usually means they like you and have drop there p's and q's and started talking normally which is you swear a lot . But sorry if you took offence
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Message 1355523 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 2:34:26 UTC - in response to Message 1355511.  

@dear Chris I don't mean to offen but the use of Astreicks is something i'll probably have trouble not being able to use we have a very courlful language here in oz

It's never meant to offend

I had a copper tell me stop swearing or i'm gona arrest you ,I was at a train station and got searched for dugs not that I had any and got a rather pissed off, my answer to him was we have a very coulorful language if your taking offence to the way i'm talking then go to the airport and buy a ticket back to the place ya come from .He was of middle estern origin , his co worker behind him a ozzie woman officer was trying to stop laughing cause she knew that it wouldn't stand up in court in fact it's been thrown out 3 time before and the reason is and I quote "Australians have a coulorful language "

I have cleaned the conversation up just for you but you can imagine I was using the f word every second . So please don't ever take offence to a ozzie swearing it usually means they like you and have drop there p's and q's and started talking normally which is you swear a lot . But sorry if you took offence


Glenn, I like your colourful language. Please don't stop or otherwise I will be offended. I think if you haven't been moderated for your language then it is accepted.
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Message 1355534 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 3:40:32 UTC

I think if you haven't been moderated for your language then it is accepted.


Why Wouldn't It Be Accepted? He/She Speaks DEM/Libberish.

Bound For It.

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1355535 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 3:46:59 UTC - in response to Message 1355497.  

Not sure why they are commenting on the death of a PM when they are no longer UK citizens??

Although there is no reason why they cannot, as Hev lived through Thatcher's Premiership. As for ES, she was a child of Thatcher, growing up then, but was totally unaffected by the PMs policies either by personal loss or experience ...

John, "they" are still UK citizens and even if they weren't they are still entitled to make whatever comments they like.
It reminds me of the old argument for apartheid in South Africa. You were not allowed to have an opinion because you had never been there and therefore wouldn't understand. Well some of us are intelligent creatures and we can gather information from all different sources.

You see, it's not just about how we are affected individually, but how thatcher's policies affected a whole swathe of the population, how the infrastructure of the country was decimated, communities and manufacturing jobs destroyed, how vulnerable people ended up sleeping in doorways. I could go on and on but the list has already been posted.

The floodgates were opened and permission for selfish and individualistic behaviour was given with little regard for the lasting effect on the culture of what had been a caring and inclusive society which looked after people.

For some of us, there is such a thing as society and we are all responsible for each other. Unfortunately the thugs in charge today are continuing the smash and grab.

Yes, thatcher began the latest bout of the class war and so it continues...
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Message 1355536 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 3:48:34 UTC - in response to Message 1355534.  

I think if you haven't been moderated for your language then it is accepted.


Why Wouldn't It Be Accepted? He/She Speaks DEM/Libberish.

Bound For It.

What?
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Message 1355550 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 5:22:52 UTC - in response to Message 1355260.  

Chris s

As a long term setizen since 1999,

Where you talking about yourself or me ?

I was born London 1963 East ham sub
Father emigrated to Oz in 1972
I have never been back , I have never had a British Passport , I am a naturised citizen of Australia , I am 50 which means I have been here for 41 yrs more time than I ever spent in England

My main prob with Liberals is there greed ,selfishness , and willingness to line there own pockets with as much gov handouts as they can . You mite look at Australian politic's and you will see that America is faceing the same crap we had under Malcom Frazer in 1973 when he lost election and could not accept it so took power just because he had the senate .Labour spent the next 16 yrs rebuilding the country .Considering the Leiberals had been in power for 30yrs or more and did they make shore company's spent there profits on there company no and we became uncompetitive . Then B.H.P sack 20,000 in 1982 ask for a 2 billion handout to rebuild there plant's and after John howard won in 1996 within 5 yrs the very same company wont to get rid of the steel industry and now the gov has already paid 500 million to rehelp them .Howard cused a lot of trouble for average people here while he was in office and all because he wonted to pay a 90 billion gov debt
The the gfc happens which proved we did not have to pay it of ,even if you add the current debt of 45 billion we would have still owed less than most of your country do
Now we have a meglomianic in charge of the Liberal party whom lost the last election pulling all sort of crap to try again in September you wont to see there broadbaned policy they just relised experts are calling it a joke and it is

The Lireral 's lie about everything promise nothing then screw everybody for what they can , when it stuffs up it is never there fault

How did company's get to big to fail , who was in power the most to let it happen ? Here it was the F#$king Liberal party not Labour

And you Americans have a system that is stuffed you can't agree on anything because of the so called tea party
To bloody stupid to see that the tea party was set up by the rich for the rich
don't get sick because you may not have the money to get health care or your health care won't cover it then you will see just how F$%ked up your whole system is

Yes I am pissed goodnight
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Message 1355551 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 5:31:55 UTC - in response to Message 1355550.  

And one more thing who's stuardship was in office while the gfc was going on ???

Why didn't the so called republicans see it there all supposed to business orientated or you gona now tell me it wasn't there fault

Wake up F%^k me
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Message 1355574 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 7:38:10 UTC - in response to Message 1355260.  

..........
@Hev - I actually feel sorry for Blair, at the time as the Labour PM, he was between a rock and a hard place. He had the best two security services in the world the CIA, and his own MI6, both telling him that Iraq had WMD and was prepared to use them. How likely was it that they were both wrong? He had Bush telling him that the USA were going in anyway, and quoting the "special relationship". If he didn't take the UK in, he could have to explain a missile attack on London with thousands killed, and the UK getting no more Intelligence from the USA, and being ordered out of USA military territory. If he went in, he would have to face the likely deaths of British troops. What would Thatcher or any other PM have done?


I sometimes despair of you Chris. Most of us knew it was an unlawful war right from the beginning, did you not watch Blair and co spin and turn trying to justify it? Perhaps the Daily Mail didn't give out the information the rest of us got.
30 million people worldwide marched against the invasion.

Prime Minister Harold Wilson didn't get involved with the Vietnam War.
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Message 1355591 - Posted: 11 Apr 2013, 9:19:28 UTC - in response to Message 1355156.  

Es as a physics teacher you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself in not doing any research and just reguritating the beliefs of the leftist parties.

Whilst a lot of what you say, in hindsight, were not the right decisions, you have to consider the international politics of the time, and remember "an enemy of my enemy, is a friend no matter how distasteful."
To give a more recent example, the extended caves in afganistan that bin laden hid in were built using american dollars so they could hide from the russians.

On mining, if the Maggie had surrendered to the wishes of king arthur and his clan the UK would have been in so much debt within ten years the present day Euro problems would look like a tea party.

Most of the mines that scargil wanted to keep open were using Victorian technology using third world levels of employment but paying them first world wages, in mines that had seen their best days decades beforehand.

If the uneconomic mines had been closed earlier and the wasted wages used to fund research into better mining equipment and geological surveys then the UK would had it's own mining equipment company(s) and mines that were viable, like those around Drax, which use equipment bought from an American company, even if a lot of it is designed and assembled in the UK. Note the assembled, not manufactured.
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