You are actually correct.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

It's the Council of Trent that actually culled the many gospels and decided what would be in or out.

This started in the 12th century. Just as mathematics was starting up in Europe only to flourish in the renaissance some few hundred years later. They were still speaking Latin in Italy at that time and the Bible was written supposedly in Greek. Greekwas the language of the educated in Rome. Caesar didn't say "et Tu Brute" he probably said in Greek "Kai su technon" which was "and you my son" in Greek. Brutus was most likely Caesar's son from a long ago dalliance.

oops double post

Allegory.

I asked awhile back if anyone knew the meaning of Allegory. Much of the Bible as I have come to believe is just that. God did Hand down the Comandments to the Jewish Nation. Im greatful to the Jewish Nation for the Law. In other words some of the Bible is not an Allegory.

I aksed if anyone had heard of the aboriginal people of Australia. I added how their word of mouth stories were very accurate. They are very accurate.

I was told that the Bible isn't the Word of God.

I correct you now...

It is the Word of God. Christ lived here and taught here. His Word was kept by passing it down, only 100 years or so before it was written.

Matt, Mark, Luke, and John were all written down 100 years or so after Christ's death. Im not doing your homework for you.

The 4 Books of the New Test are the very words of Christ. You may call Him Jesus, since you don't believe in a Christ or for that matter God.

I have given you example of how a word of mouth story was passed down and then written. Indeed, it was the Council of Trent that assembled the Clementine Vulgate.

The fact still remains that a word of mouth story can be passed down and remain intact. I have given you proof of this very fact. The fact that the stories passed down were only 100 years old is more then enough proof that the stroy is true and correct. Stories passed down by the aboriginal people of Australia are correct after a much larger time then 100 years.

I have not come here to convert you. I have come here seeking truth. And God willing pass on truth.

Don't believe me. However, you could post better excesses for not taking my word. Just sayin...

About the council of trent:

...This started in the 12th century.

ID says:

It is the Word of God. Christ lived here and taught here. His Word was kept by passing it down, only 100 years or so before it was written...

Stories passed down by the aboriginal people of Australia are correct after a much larger time then 100 years.

So apparently Jesus lived around the year 1000?

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#resist

About the council of trent:

...This started in the 12th century.

ID says:

It is the Word of God. Christ lived here and taught here. His Word was kept by passing it down, only 100 years or so before it was written...

Stories passed down by the aboriginal people of Australia are correct after a much larger time then 100 years.

So apparently Jesus lived around the year 1000?

As I said, Im not doing your homework for you. Doing so would do neither you nor me any good.

I said what I said and meant it.

"The 4 Books of the New Test are the very words of Christ. You may call Him Jesus, since you don't believe in a Christ or for that matter God."

Make that *reputed* to include the the very words of Jesus. No scientific proof exists <smile>.

But where are the other Gospels, and why are they not included in the new testament. Without research I think there were quite a few, and just typing "gospel of " in google brings up Barnabas, Thomas and Judas.

There is a chance these might be more accurate as contemparies of Jesus rather than say Luke, who most certainly not.

edit] Just a quick addition, isn't there a Gospel of Mary?

Yes, there are other gospels. Not doing your homework. Act like you know what your talking about.

Yes, there are other gospels. Not doing your homework. Act like you know what your talking about.

Did my homework on religions while at school, where I had contact with C of E, family, the school I attended was run by the Roman Catholic church, in a country where the majority of christians belonged to the Coptic church, but the majority of population followed the Islamic faith. At some point I decided they were probably all wrong, but would have been better had they got together and agreed a few basic fundementals and stuck to them.

And as I studied maths and pyhsics more decided there is probably not any gods.

Thats 50 years ago and still haven't changed my mind, it fact probably a much more hardened view.

P.S. My mother was such a strong believer and activist, that on her final visit to hospital just before she died she was visited by two C of E Bishops, and one of them spoke her eulogy.

As for stories being passed down without change, I suggest that you play the game of "Telephone" at your next party.

Start with a short written paragraph describing some event. Assemble 7 or 8 of your friends and have each one relate the story that they heard and pass it down to the next one in the chain. Have the last one write down the version of the story that they think that they heard.

You will be amazed when you compare the two versions.

I observed the ordinary of the catholic mass in English undergo a modernization in which the meaning of the extant latin text was veered off of it's original intent. I knew latin fairly well at the time having translated Virgil and Caesar and served on the altar for quite some time.

The 4 Books of the New Test are the very words of Christ. You may call Him Jesus, since you don't believe in a Christ or for that matter God.

I have given you example of how a word of mouth story was passed down and then written. Indeed, it was the Council of Trent that assembled the Clementine Vulgate.

The fact still remains that a word of mouth story can be passed down and remain intact. I have given you proof of this very fact. The fact that the stories passed down were only 100 years old is more then enough proof that the stroy is true and correct. Stories passed down by the aboriginal people of Australia are correct after a much larger time then 100 years.

I have not come here to convert you. I have come here seeking truth. And God willing pass on truth.

Don't believe me. However, you could post better excesses for not taking my word. Just sayin...

Basing a theory of "oral tradition" on observations from Australia is perhaps not as simple as you appear to believe. There are theories that Homer's works were also transmitted through time as part of an oral tradition, and anthropologists/archaeologists current best approximation is that for such a tradition to operate, there are structural characteristics that the "text" must adhere to, for example, use of rhyme and repetition. To the best of my knowledge, the gospels do not appear to have these characteristics, so do not conform to known methods of transmission via an oral tradition.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

And yet we keep ignoring the aboriginal people of Australia, we are talking about 100 years or a tad bit more for the Gospels in the New Test. I wouldn't assume that the first incounters of Christ didn't take notes, in other words they just might have known how to write. Example, my Grandfather was in the 101 airborn, he helped empty Jewish concentration camps. My son relates the stories to his 4 son's who write them down. As if ignoring it will just make it disappear like a particle in the quantum.

And why were the gospels spoken about here rejected at Council of Trent?

Message 1228351 - Last modified: 6 May 2012 | 16:56:31 UTC
Intelligent Design wrote:

And yet we keep ignoring the aboriginal people of Australia, we are talking about 100 years or a tad bit more for the Gospels in the New Test. I wouldn't assume that the first incounters of Christ didn't take notes, in other words they just might have known how to write. Example, my Grandfather was in the 101 airborn, he helped empty Jewish concentration camps. My son relates the stories to his 4 son's who write them down. As if ignoring it will just make it disappear like a particle in the quantum.

And why were the gospels spoken about here rejected at Council of Trent?

Message 1228348 - Last modified: 6 May 2012 | 16:42:40 UTC
bobby wrote:

Basing a theory of "oral tradition" on observations from Australia is perhaps not as simple as you appear to believe.

Seems it takes less than 15 minutes for distortions to enter a narrative.

[ETA]For those that are familiar with some of my posts the following probably goes without saying, as for the example, the plural of anecdote is not data.[/ETA]

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

A lot of what was atributed to the aurthors of the Bible, were not written by them at all. There were mnay people who had agenda's, and they were willing to lie to move them forward. That sounds a bit like present day politicians.

The following link is another Bart Ehrman book, Forged. It is a coulple of hours long, but once again very enlightening.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

And about that link Steve...

"Upton Sinclair" wrote:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

And yes, I know Upton wasn't much of a beliver either.

What I'm trying to point out is that not only were 11 books of the Bible forged, but even the forgeries were changed counteless times by the actions of scribes. Then if man has been on the planet some 2.5 million years, then why wait until 2000 years ago to give the truth of God. Religions have been around for some 10-11 thousand years, and have varied to tremendous degrees. None of them give descriptions of the birth of the universe or even man that match observations. The observations make sense.

A few years ago scientists were wondering how the acreation disk of raw stuff ever had enough gravity to build planets, but then a bag of salt was taken up in space, and they saw it clump together. The answer was static electricity. It was then an easy step to demonstrate the first clumpings of material in our solar system could have been due to static, and gravity took over later.

Even the greatest magicians on earth will tell you there is no such thing as magic. For every illusion they perform, there is a trick to it. Observations and physics work very well. They give us a platform for testing new ideas, where religious belief gives us nothing except for the power of prayer for the individual praying, or perhaps ther other people who know that others are praying for them. Prayer has no effect on the physical world at all. If it did then the suffering of humans and even other species would have gone away long ago.

I have said before that much of what one experiences has more to do with time and location than whether one believes in a God, or not. Whether one prays 30 times a day or none at all. I have clean water to drink, and a roof over my head. I could move to any of a number of different places in the world where I would not have those comforts. Likewise, if the population of some of these areas had the means to leave where they are, they could find better conditions. When a hurricane comes through, it cuts a swath of damage. This effects anyone in it's path, but property outside of that swath is undamaged. People often say how thankful to God they are for having spared, but their houses are wrecked, and their neighbors were washed out to sea, when they held exactly the same beliefs as the ones who were spared. There is no such thing as fairness in any religion.

When you look at all the information together, the existance of a God doesn't make any sense. It is something magical in a world where magic doesn't exist. The fabric of Christianity crumbles, as do other religions with even the most benign questions. As I said before, it is very easy to understand the condition of the world with no God. It is what it is. If there was a God, then none of what we see, as to the suffering of millions, to the observable creation of stars, solar systems, galaxies, and the evolution of species would make any sense. Of course people will still take the Bible as the word of God, when it is really nothing more than the heavily changed words of men.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

My, my Steve thats alot of words. I have noted over the years of looking this subject over that just because a person uses more words then me doesn't make them more right then me. There is proof for God however in the use of words. If you can read this, I can prove God exists.

I watch your video, time for you to watch one I have dug up.

My, my ID that's a lot of double posting. I have noted over the years of looking this subject over that just because a person uses more mythology than me doesn't make them more right than me. There is no proof for God, however [extra word removed] the use of words. If you can read this, I can prove you are self aware, and nothing more.

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#resist

[And note how much the meaning of something changes just by changing and adding or removing a few words here and there.]

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#resist