i've made a sticky thread with Josef's message quoted.

Thanks!

Fyi
That's probably the reason they aren't a charitable organization or stay away from accepting funds via pay pal

SETI is charity at least in sense that USA peoples can get tax deduction because of donation. Unfortunately, not in Russia ;)

You are mistaken Robert. The University of California is a 501(c)3 organization. Donations made to S@H are tax deductable for US citizens to the extent allowed by law.

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Fyi
That's probably the reason they aren't a charitable organization or stay away from accepting funds via pay pal

SETI is charity at least in sense that USA peoples can get tax deduction because of donation. Unfortunately, not in Russia ;)

The same goes for the Netherlands, Tax-Refund or reduction/deduction
is out off question.
And the use of Pay-Pal, too, unfortunatly and my Bank refuses giving out a credit-card, without suitable income, can't even blame them, both parties (maybe) heading for disaster, in such situation.

Looks like everything is stuck in this part of the Netherlands, price of houses dropping like a stone and selling/bying has almost come to a stop, unemployment still rising....

But I won't stop, as long I can pay my bills.....

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What would be a problem with people from other countries sending checks or the equivalent to money orders to Berkeley?

Fyi
That's probably the reason they aren't a charitable organization or stay away from accepting funds via pay pal

SETI is charity at least in sense that USA peoples can get tax deduction because of donation. Unfortunately, not in Russia ;)

Just to clear that up some. Not everyone gets a tax deduction by donating to a charity. I would say that most people don't. You have to have a certain amount of deductions before your even allowed to claim them. I've never had my taxes reduced because of donating to SETI.

What would be a problem with people from other countries sending checks or the equivalent to money orders to Berkeley?

The fees charged I would imagine. I recently had to cash two 'checks' drawn on US banks, written in USD. Each time, I had to pay a percentage fee (with a minimum of about 25GBP) and it was impossible to time the transaction for a good exchange rate as the banks decide when they will honour the 'checks'. It really is a nightmare of cost moving money internationally, which is why something like Paypal is what we desperately need if SAH is serious about international donations.......... Why it is so difficult to set up is beyond me.

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What would be a problem with people from other countries sending checks or the equivalent to money orders to Berkeley?

The fees charged I would imagine. I recently had to cash two 'checks' drawn on US banks, written in USD. Each time, I had to pay a percentage fee (with a minimum of about 25GBP) and it was impossible to time the transaction for a good exchange rate as the banks decide when they will honour the 'checks'. It really is a nightmare of cost moving money internationally, which is why something like Paypal is what we desperately need if SAH is serious about international donations.......... Why it is so difficult to set up is beyond me.

25GBP is about 37USD. That's robbery!

According to this you can send checks directly to Berkeley:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/donate_bymail.php

If there is any fee associated, I would imagine it would come directly out of the donation when Berkley deposits the check. You can always ask for details here by sending an email: gahelp@berkeley.edu or by calling 510-643-1372

I Don't know.. There has to be a solution to this problem.

Well, that's how it works over here - you have no choice! And there are more hurdles you need to jump through I didn't even mention!

Yes you can do international money transfers, which are quicker and cheaper, but there is always an admin' fee! It may be different for US banks, but I doubt it will be that different.

The point is, SAH seems to focus on larger donations, and does not seem to have considered how it can levarage the international user base more effectively, and gather small donations into a larger one, such that it becomes viable. I would happily donate $10 a month, every month, if I knew most of it wasn't going to the banks. Now, multiply that out.......that's a lot of $10 a months!!!! $10 isn't much, but it all adds up.

If I send a $10 'check' to Berkley, how much of that would be left for Berkley???? How much admin' effort would be involved in banking it, etc etc. Paypal is THE answer.

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Agree with Area 51 to some extent.

I was chatting to a local cruncher who visited. He, like I, would like to contribute, probably small amounts regularly. But the banks in GB can be a real pain. It's sooo easy to end up paying more in charges per month (f'rinstance) however healthy your account than that your trying to donate.

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Moneybookers offers an inexpensive service.

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Moneybookers offers an inexpensive service.

...which appears to be almost exactly the same as PayPal!!!! Can anyone remember why the PayPal idea was kicked into touch?

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As I remember, we were still running SETI Classic when this came up. At the time Paypal was fairly new to the scene and there were rumors it was not very secure. Because of that the powers that hold the pursestrings at Berkeley decided they would not allow donations through it. Like any bureaucracy the ruling still holds no matter how untrue or unfair it may be.

That's how I remember it but if anyone else remembers more about it please chime in.

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PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC

As I remember, we were still running SETI Classic when this came up. At the time Paypal was fairly new to the scene and there were rumors it was not very secure. Because of that the powers that hold the pursestrings at Berkeley decided they would not allow donations through it. Like any bureaucracy the ruling still holds no matter how untrue or unfair it may be.

That's how I remember it but if anyone else remembers more about it please chime in.

Ah, the term ludite springs to mind!!!! I knew there was a reason, I just couldn't remember what it was.

Seriously though, this really should be pursued again. I am not saying that there wouldn't be some sort of admin' involved in setting this up, as doubtless donations would go through the Berkley accounts, and then be distributed to SAH, but we are now in 2010. In the UK (the UK for heavens sake), we are already moving towards removing 'checks' as a valid form of payment - and we aren't exactly quick off the mark over here. This project really needs to wake up to the fact that it has to make it easy for people if they want our (foreign) money.

I know there could be 'un-official' alternatives which could be made to work. For example, we could simply pair up, 1 'foreigner' with 1 US person! The details are kind of sketchy, but doubtless you get the idea.....

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The biggest problem in all of this is that SETI isn't a "body corporate", as we would say in British legal terminology. It isn't a Company, or an Institution, or a Partnership, or any of those legal terms that lawyers and - crucially - banks recognise. So it won't be able to have a cash handling service, or even open a bank account, in its own name.

Instead, it's a part of the Space Science Laboratory, which is part of some department or other, which is part of the University of California. It's only when you get to the University level that you get the necessary legal status to handle money - and you also get the 501(c)3 tax status.

All donations, at present, are legally made to the University of California, but with a covenant restricting their use to the benefit the SETI project only. It's the University donations office, more used to squeezing ex-students for tens of thousands of dollars at a time, which was freaked out by the initial concept of PayPal.

The workround was for a trusted intermediary volunteer, not based in the US to avoid tax complications, to receive donations into a personal escrow PayPal account, and periodically transfer larger accrued sums more efficiently to the University donations office (a bit like SciManStev has recently done for Jason's Fermi card). To ensure that no accusations of malpractice could evade scrutiny, Eric Korpela agreed to act as an external scrutineer of the escrow account, and was given the necessary password access to check the account records as needed.

That system worked well for a while (you can see the records on the Lunatics site), and raised some 3,000 USD plus 820 EUR - not much, in the grand scheme of things, but every little helps. Unfortunately, the volunteer concerned withdrew suddenly and unexpectedly - we still don't know exactly why - and the scheme fell into abeyance.

I suppose something similar could be set up again, if a suitable volunteer came forward who was acceptable both to the project/University, and to the crunching community: but I suspect the old adage 'once bitten, twice shy' would come into play. It would be harder to set up the trust relationships the second time round.

The other possibilities are to re-open the PayPal discussion with the University donations office - they may understand it a bit better by now! - or an idea posted in the 'Help Wanted' forum section over 18 months ago: Lawyer wanted to assist in forming non-profit "SETI@home Foundation". I don't know what became of that initiative: but a separate legal entity with 'Foundation' status would certainly find it easier to raise and handle money. But it would cost, too.

going back to topic:

same here. tired of...everything. and it's sorta pointless. good luck guys.

going back to topic:

same here. tired of...everything. and it's sorta pointless. good luck guys.

Pointless? NOT.

Maybe a little more frustrating for some of us. Maybe a little less productive than we would choose to be.

But pointless? No, the search continues. Hopefully our frustrations will be rewarded by a few more advances in the science of it all.

Or maybe some dude on a white stallion will come riding up someday and upgrade the hardware they have to work with so we can have our cake and crunch it too.

(Who WAS that masked man????)

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I thought I saw a recent post that our donations persons did have a way to accept PayPal payments. Try giving one of them a PM or give Eric a PM.

As to The Regents of the University of California accepting PayPal, if there are enough of us here who go pester them that we want to buy our season tickets for Football with PayPal, then perhaps they will look at it again. That is if PayPay will enter into negotiations with the Regents over the merchant fees. Also I suspect the Regents would want a much better interface to PayPal than the one you and I see. Something more akin to the interface you get to a credit/debit card processor service. This may be the real hang up.

Oh, while the University page says "credit card" it really means plus any "debit card" with a Master Card, Visa, Discover or American Express logo. I know most of the world doesn't use those, but just in case. I also don't know if PayPay issues its debit cards to foreign accounts. If they do there is the painless way to contribute.

ObTopic: If the data we return sits never is sifted through, now that is pointless!

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You are right Gary. A donation can be made with the purchase of an anni shirt, via Eric's paypal account.

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

You are right Gary. A donation can be made with the purchase of an anni shirt, via Eric's paypal account.

Could Eric accept normal donations to his paypal account? If so problem solved..

Edit: Of course all donors would have to agree that transaction fees would come out of the donations.