The name of our planet is "Earth". Why is it such a common practice to affix "the" in front of its name? Would this not be comparable to saying "The Mars", "The Neptune" etc... ?

What's your view on this? I make an effort to call our planet "Earth" - and drop the "the" -- however, "The Earth" is an almost universal expression. This is common in many languages, not only English.


Has this ever been explained or officially established?

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that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me

My pet theory is by using "The" before Earth differentiates planet Earth from earth under our feet (soil, etc). I do agree it does seem strange when you think about it. "The planet Earth" or "Earth" would make more sense.

My one cent ;)

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Happy birthday Calm Chaos!!! Terrible twos?


Calm Chaos... are you feeling it yet?

It could be to demean Earth.

Why "The Ukraine"? Why do Russians call it "The Ukraine" when it is in fact "Ukraine". Why don't the Russians say The USA, or The England or The South Africa?

It's because 'the river' is part of something, 'the sun' is in the sky. The Ukraine is a province of Russia (so they arrogantly want to continue to think of it as).

So that is my explanation - Earth is demeaned by being referred to as part of something (the solar system?) rather than being acknowledged in it's own right (as other planets).

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My pet theory is by using "The" before Earth differentiates planet Earth from earth under our feet (soil, etc). I do agree it does seem strange when you think about it. "The planet Earth" or "Earth" would make more sense.

My one cent ;)

I like your idea! Of course, in the United Kingdom "earth" is a synonym for "soil" - so this would make perfect sense. If anything, perhaps it's just an archaic term for our planet. A term that was established before humans were fully aware of the other planets. I have no idea - I'm just spitballing...

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that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me

It could be to demean Earth

that's a really good point - I've never thought of that... back in college, I had a good buddy from Ukraine - and he'd aggressively correct those who dared (accidentally or otherwise) refer to his nation as "The Ukraine" - for he took it as a huge insult.

That's interested!

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that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me

Why "The Ukraine"? Why do Russians call it "The Ukraine" when it is in fact "Ukraine". Why don't the Russians say The USA, or The England or The South Africa?

It's because 'the river' is part of something, 'the sun' is in the sky. The Ukraine is a province of Russia (so they arrogantly want to continue to think of it as).

I would be hesitant to state definitive explanations for usages of languages and how they evolve unless you have some substantive evidence either way. Different usages are often a matter of custom, especially when those that are learning English have a language that does not use definitive articles such as "the." The Russians (and everyone else) do say "the United States," or "the United Kingdom," or "the Republic of South Africa."

The use of an article "the" isn't necessarily set in stone. In general, "Ukraine" refers to the country itself, where as "the Ukraine" could be referring to the area that contains Ukraine. That those usages blur over time has little relevance. Similarly, one can say "over in the States they don't eat much Vegemite" to refer to the location, without referring to the nation itself, like you would if you said "The States wished to punish Oz for making that vile concoction."

So that is my explanation - Earth is demeaned by being referred to as part of something (the solar system?) rather than being acknowledged in it's own right (as other planets).

Pfffft.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Pfffft.

Usual logic twisting from Rush.

Who would ever say "The Russia" or "The America" but Rush or the Russians who have demeaned countries such as Ukraine?

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Pfffft.

Usual logic twisting from Rush.

Who would ever say "The Russia" or "The America" but Rush or the Russians who have demeaned countries such as Ukraine?

Usual inability to read from Ice. Tell us again how one uses a colon?

Anyway, I didn't say they said "the Russia" or "the America," I said they do use such constructions when they say "the United States" or "the United Kingdom," or "the United Soviet Socialist Republic." They're just a matter of construction and the way language evolves, especially coming from languages that don't have definite articles.

That you happen to have decided that it is demeaning, well, have at it.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Pfffft.

Usual logic twisting from Rush.

Who would ever say "The Russia" or "The America" but Rush or the Russians who have demeaned countries such as Ukraine?

Usual inability to read from Ice. Tell us again how one uses a colon?

Anyway, I didn't say they said "the Russia" or "the America," I said they do use such constructions when they say "the United States" or "the United Kingdom," or "the United Soviet Socialist Republic." They're just a matter of construction and the way language evolves, especially coming from languages that don't have definite articles.

That you happen to have decided that it is demeaning, well, have at it.

There's no need to try to be so clever. "The Americas" is correct whilst "The America" is not correct. The demeaning by Russia by putting "The" in front of "Ukraine" is a well known fact, no matter how you try an cover your ignorance of this fact.

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There's no need to try to be so clever. "The Americas" is correct whilst "The America" is not correct.

Sure, if you're referring to both North and South America. Just as "the United States" is correct regardless. Is that demeaning too?

The demeaning by Russia by putting "The" in front of "Ukraine" is a well known fact, no matter how you try an cover your ignorance of this fact.

Well, if you say so. I have no idea, but you really aren't fixing the hash of Ukraine with a deep and incisive burn such as, oh, putting the article "the" in front of the country name. I would suggest that very very few people have any idea about that. Native English speakers, as a rule, would use the terms interchangeably without giving it a second thought. And it's just as likely that non-native English speakers are skrewing up their use of the article, thus giving rise to the different usages.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

The Earth (is below Our Feet) (as in soil: 'purplemkayel's note) ;)

and

Earth is the Planet WE live on . . .

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

There's no need to try to be so clever. "The Americas" is correct whilst "The America" is not correct.

Sure, if you're referring to both North and South America. Just as "the United States" is correct regardless. Is that demeaning too?

The demeaning by Russia by putting "The" in front of "Ukraine" is a well known fact, no matter how you try an cover your ignorance of this fact.

Well, if you say so. I have no idea, but you really aren't fixing the hash of Ukraine with a deep and incisive burn such as, oh, putting the article "the" in front of the country name. I would suggest that very very few people have any idea about that. Native English speakers, as a rule, would use the terms interchangeably without giving it a second thought. And it's just as likely that non-native English speakers are skrewing up their use of the article, thus giving rise to the different usages.

It's not your fault Rush, you just don't know much about The world, particularly how Russia demeans it's neighbours and uses arguments much like yours to put "The" Ukraine in it's place, which is just where it would like to put "The" America I expect.

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It's not fault Rush, you just don't know much about The world, particularly how Russia demeans it's neighbours and uses arguments much like yours to put "The" Ukraine in it's place, which is just where it would like to put "The" America I expect.

And Russia is doing that in English, eh? That seems really odd to me. I would figure it would use the mother tongue of the Rodina, and actually demean the Ukraine. I wouldn't think it would use an accepted usage of the most used article in a foreign language. Its too obscure.

But hey, if it thinks that's effective, more power to it. That'll show 'em.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

It's not fault Rush, you just don't know much about The world, particularly how Russia demeans it's neighbours and uses arguments much like yours to put "The" Ukraine in it's place, which is just where it would like to put "The" America I expect.

And Russia is doing that in English, eh? That seems really odd to me. I would figure it would use the mother tongue of the Rodina, and actually demean the Ukraine. I wouldn't think it would use an accepted usage of the most used article in a foreign language. Its too obscure.

But hey, if it thinks that's effective, more power to it. That'll show 'em.

I think you are underestimating the power of language.

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Reality Internet Personality

The Earth (is below Our Feet) (as in soil: 'purplemkayel's note) ;)

and

Earth is the Planet WE live on . . .

This is the way I've always thought of it.

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I think you are underestimating the power of language.

Clear and concise language is powerful. Pedantic and obscure language is not. It underwhelms all by itself and doesn't need me to underestimate it.

In this case, an accepted usage of an article in English does not have a negative connotation. "The United States, the U.S.S.R., the U.K.," and on and on and on are just normal uses of the article and aren't demeaning. Since they aren't demeaning, trying to use the same construction of the language to demean the Ukraine in a language that is not their native tongue is ineffective and more likely demonstrates simple errors in the use of English.

For example, Ivana Trump used to call her former husband "the Donald" because she didn't completely understand how to use the article, not because she figured everyone else on the planet except him would get the "demeaning" character of it.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

And Russia is doing that in English, eh? That seems really odd to me.

No Rush, the Russians speak Russian, which is a Slavic based language, as is Ukrainian, but the languages are not the same. The Russians put a Russian word in front of the Russian word for "Ukraine". So they use two Russian words, which translated into any other language, including Ukrainian and English, say "The Ukraine".

That's how languages work Rush. The world does not use English simply because we, or you, use the English translated versions of their words. They use their own words and we choose to translate them into English and use the English version.

It's decidedly odd that you should think that all Russian words originate in English. Especially since the Slavic and English languages and alphabets are completely different.

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It does not matter. Use whatever term you are comfortable with!

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

No Rush, the Russians speak Russian, which is a Slavic based language, as is Ukrainian, but the languages are not the same. The Russians put a Russian word in front of the Russian word for "Ukraine". So they use two Russian words, which translated into any other language, including Ukrainian and English, say "The Ukraine".

Surprise surprise.

That's how languages work Rush. The world does not use English simply because we, or you, use the English translated versions of their words. They use their own words and we choose to translate them into English and use the English version.

Mr. Painfullyobviousnessman strikes again!

It's decidedly odd that you should think that all Russian words originate in English. Especially since the Slavic and English languages and alphabets are completely different.

It's even odder that you seem to be unable to read even simple English, given that I wrote nothing of the sort.

You see, we were speaking about ENGLISH. Melt asked about ENGLISH. He even provided an example where a non-native speaker disliked when the article was used in ENGLISH.

Since we were speaking about English, I continued to speak about English. Most notably that the use of "the" as an article in English does not have a negative connotation nor is it generally added to demean the word in question.

I mentioned Russia "doing it in English," to note the absurdity of using a perfectly acceptable English construction to somehow "demean" an entire planet, regardless of what the Russians may do in RUSSIAN (which we weren't discussing) to the people of the Ukraine.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

I mentioned Russia "doing it in English," to note the absurdity of using a perfectly acceptable English construction to somehow "demean" an entire planet, regardless of what the Russians may do in RUSSIAN (which we weren't discussing) to the people of the Ukraine.

No need to shout Rush. You know full well the I am using Russian's derogatory term of "The Ukraine" to suggest, as a contribution to this thread, that "The Earth" may be a derogatory term since "Earth" will suffice and prefixing "The" to Ukraine was Russia's way of seeing Ukraine as a province in the CCCP/USSR it once had, and still uses the term to demean.

Whether anyone is using "The" to prefix Earth to demean it I don't know. But I do know that Russian wish to demean Ukraine, and by calling it "The Ukraine" they do just that.

that's a really good point - I've never thought of that... back in college, I had a good buddy from Ukraine - and he'd aggressively correct those who dared (accidentally or otherwise) refer to his nation as "The Ukraine" - for he took it as a huge insult.

People should be careful about insults, unwitting or otherwise

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