> I can't Wait for this to be all back up. I have 40 Units on this machine, 20
> on 2 others and 80 on yet another. Seti will feel my uploading fury when it's
> all back online.
>
> ~Kirby
>

Yes you can wait ... I've hundreds of units in the pipeline... this is NOT important...

Be patient, in due time everything will come together, meanwhile go fishing or play pool,...

Greetings from Belgium ;-)))

Some of you people just need to take a nap. So cranky.

For the US, where UCB is located, IT IS A HOLIDAY WEEKEND. Monday is a HOLIDAY here. That means, students go home. Faculty get the day off. People at the University who go work, DO SO BY THEIR OWN CHOICE, NOT yours. Even the SETI team should be able to take a weekend off. Let them be.

The news on the front has been updated far more often with far more information and people STILL complain that there isn't enough news and updates. It's down. It says it's down. So why on earth is the subject of this thread "We know it's broken, but why don't you tell us it is?" C'mon Fornax. Even if it doesn't say it's down, you just flat out said "we know it's down." Do you need an electrician to tell you the electricity was on just after you stick a knife in an electric outlet and get an unhealthy jolt? Do you need a plumber to tell you that your sink that won't drain is clogged? Granted, this is different. But the point is, we don't need them to tell us that it is down. I think what you meant is more like, "Why don't you tell us why (or what) is broken?" But we don't even NEED to know why it is down. It doesn't improve my life any. But it is the smart thing to do and they do it. The even try to give estimates, although the estimates are frequently way overoptimistic. But to have correcting estimates shouldn't be neccessary. If it doesn't go up when they say it will, well then we know there was a delay. Deal with it. Your life doesn't depend on it. Your health doesn't even depend on it, except in that worrying about it so much is likeley to give you an ulcer.

And Niel, thank you for pointing out the gold mine at the end of the tunnel that is the entire point of this project. I can hardly wait for the fame I get if the project turns up something. Reality check. That garbage about money and glory and all just agrivates me so much that I can't even respond to it any more than with that little bit of sarcasm.

Be a little more reasonable people. Volunteer participation on both ends. Understaffed, underresourced, underfunded project. Labor day weekend. Updates explaining what is happening (better and more frequent). How some of you can still get so bent out of shape about all this is just beyond me. Those of you throwing a fit and being all cranky, go relax and take a nap.

To state the obvious, Christopher, this is an International, Global project.

SETI benefits from World-Wide 24 hour, 24/7, 365 day/year contributions.

I (we) respect the limitations of the development/support team, and the time investments they make.

But please remember that many, certainly in Europe (a fair percentage of the world total contributors), find ourselves 23 hours behind the events in California - and to have that pushed to 48 or 72 hours is - to say the least frustrating.

To the Dev team, enjoy your holiday, and lets look forward to a really sucessful and exciting fall :-)

Yes it is an international project. I've had to explain that to people on numerous occasions for various reasons. That is why I took special care to specifically say that the project is in the US, and Labor Day is a US holiday, not celebrated by most other countries (if any).

But this is a case where the international aspect of the project is set aside for a moment. The international (and stateside for that matter) population supporting the project needs to understand that because UCB is a public institution in the State of California, in the United states, its faculty and students are given Monday off. But as an educational institution where some like to take advantage of the time to catch up on stuff and work on things, the option for people to use the facilities (especially faculty) is generally there. But that is strictly voluntary, and most students take the extended break as an opportunity to go home.

I don't care that SETI benefits from 24/7/365.25 contributions from all over the world, it doesn't change the fact that there are local holidays and such are going to effect the ability of the Dev Team to work on the project.

It's just a rare special case with this project when international aspect of the project ceases to be of an important influence, and rightfully so.

> To state the obvious, Christopher, this is an International, Global project.
>
> SETI benefits from World-Wide 24 hour, 24/7, 365 day/year contributions.
>
> I (we) respect the limitations of the development/support team, and the time
> investments they make.
>
> But please remember that many, certainly in Europe (a fair percentage of the
> world total contributors), find ourselves 23 hours behind the events in
> California - and to have that pushed to 48 or 72 hours is - to say the least
> frustrating.
>
> To the Dev team, enjoy your holiday, and lets look forward to a really
> sucessful and exciting fall :-)
>

Christopher, I absolutly acknowlege your acknowlement ;)

Just don't be too parochiacial (sp?) not everyone in the world understands a special American traditon - I know of Labour Day, but its' full significance is not clear to a non-US person.

Simply put, well done and Thanks to the BOINC developmet team -- It'll get there and we'll find ET, or understand the Climate or whatever soon.

Good Job Berkeley

I cannot understand why people get so stressed out by the project not being up.

It is run from the US. The US has a national holiday. It will not be up today. Why do you need a message saying that. Take the day off from worrying about and complaining that no schedulers running. If you have enough workunits you will still be crunching.

Relax, go fishing, spend some time away from your computer.

GIVE THE GUYS A BREAK!!

Regards from the UK

Nick

S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club ©

> There isn't any money involved. There is no fancy trophy. Processing
> work-units isn't a path to fame and fortune.


SSsshhhh!!!!! I told my wife it was - I had to justify running 4 machines 24 hours a day and spending this much time reading the message boards of 4 different projects somehow.

> But this is a case where the international aspect of the project is set aside
> for a moment. The international (and stateside for that matter) population
> supporting the project needs to understand that because UCB is a public
> institution in the State of California, in the United states, its faculty and
> students are given Monday off. But as an educational institution where some
> like to take advantage of the time to catch up on stuff and work on things,
> the option for people to use the facilities (especially faculty) is generally
> there. But that is strictly voluntary, and most students take the extended
> break as an opportunity to go home.
>
Actually the buildings on the campus would be locked so unless they had the key to get into the building itself they wouldnt have access. I dont know how UCB is set up but the faculity may not have building keys as they would office keys. Being so close to the start of classes I doubt even the library would be open.

It will soon be Xmas

> >"And yes ,they can have a holiday, they can take the weekend, a whole week
> or
> > month, I only wish they would tell us before they do so. :)"
>
> Spoken like a truely arrogant, egotisical, prima donna, who are you to give
> and take away permission for the Devs to do anything. Get over your self and
> relax, because it will be up when it is up.......Flame suit on fire away

I’ve read the above text a dozen of time and I don’t see were you reaction is coming from. What are you seeing that I don’t? I have no intention of planning their holiday or how they spend it. I just wish someone from Berkeley would have said not to expect something soon because of the holiday(s ?)

If I can’t ask to be a little better informed from Berkeley itself, then maybe freedom of speech is more none existing then I thought.

> And Niel, thank you for pointing out the gold mine at the end of the tunnel
> that is the entire point of this project. I can hardly wait for the fame I get
> if the project turns up something. Reality check. That garbage about money and
> glory and all just agrivates me so much that I can't even respond to it any
> more than with that little bit of sarcasm.

Christopher, maybe you need to calm down then. I was responding to the issue of money and payment which was raised by Nedd. I am not suggesting the project goal is to make money but it will be the outcome (I believe). If you cannot take any crtiscism of this project I would suggest you take your crunching elsewhere. I do however happen to agree entirely with your views on the Seti team having a holiday.


I believe the Seti staff are paid - I'm not suggesting they are getting rich or making big bucks but they are paid. This may be a not for profit but that doesnt mean unpaid volunteers (actually it does you and me). I can only presume they get paid to supply you and me with work units otherwise the project and their jobs would cease to exist. This is not meant as a critiscism just fact.

What I do not agree with is the "no problems here attitude". There are many problems including insuficient funding, lack of resources, lack of information being given etc etc. Some of those problems the Seti team can do nothing about - some they can.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and say "all OK, how dare you criticise" then so be it. If you want to defend the indefensible so be it. I believe it is not that black and white.

I am not suggesting money is the goal or driving force however, if and when, somebody will make a lot of money IMHO.

The Seti team are clearly doing a difficult job at a difficult time however at least part of those difficulties are self inflicted.

Neil

http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3771

Here you find my suggestions how to improve the Hompage!



The whole is more then the sum of its particles.
Aristoteles
Best wishes from Berlin(52°35'N,13°23'O), Basti
S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club © member

>
> While it'd be nice, I don't think we __need__ a note that says "not yet" every
> few hours. We can see that in the BOINC client.
>
Agreed.
>
> Right now, the home page says "we're working on it a bit, but it's a
> holiday."
>
Yes. YESTERDAY was a holiday. TODAY is not!
>
> I also suspect that they're really tired of saying "as soon as we fix 'x'
> we'll be up" only to find that fixing 'x' made the next problem visible.
>
Well, I, for one, would like at least daily updates on what's going on. Not to mention they suddenly decided to change the way work units are handed out. Notice they didn't say anything about it? SETI admins need to learn a LOT more communications skills!

Yes they would. But most faculty have keys to their buildings and labs. Same with GTAs. Some campuses also allow students into select buildings, labs, and rooms depending on their major and classes 24/7 electronically using their student IDs. I do not know if UCB provides that or not, but nonetheless, Labor Day or no, arrangements for students and faculty to use university facilities can generally be made but is stritcly voluntary. That is why I made mention of it. It may be possible, but should not be expected.

Chris


> Actually the buildings on the campus would be locked so unless they had the
> key to get into the building itself they wouldnt have access. I dont know how
> UCB is set up but the faculity may not have building keys as they would office
> keys. Being so close to the start of classes I doubt even the library would
> be open.
>
>

well it would be nice to know that seti admins take the project as seriously as alot of the people here.

There is no timezone on the internet.

What enfuriated me were your "goldmine" and the "fortune and glory" comments. I knew that you were not speaking about the current state of the project, but rather an outcome based upon a VERY unlikely set of events. While there would be a lot of publicity about such a thing, and quite possibly some healthy grants issued for more research, the "goldmine" and "fortune and glory" comments to me were just over the edge and set forth at least an impression that the end goal and motivation of the project for the people running it and UCB was essentially greed rather than investigative science.

As for SETI staff, they should probably be paid more. Some of them are paid I am sure. However I am not entirely sure if everyone working on it gets paid. I'm also not entirely sure if students can get credit for working on it. If they can recieve credit, then they are in effect PAYING to work on it rather than be paid. But salaries of employees of public institutions are generally public information and are subject to certain rules to help ensure that public money is used properly (kind of goes back to your "goldmine," kind of helps ensure that money is put back into research rather than into pockets). In any case, to some extent I agree that they are paid to provide workunits, but I think that is more an end result of their job than the actual job. Nitpicky perhaps, but perhaps relevant. They are really paid to write and fix the software and try to fix/maintain the hardware. In other words, try to get everything to work and keep it that way. The end result of that IS that workunits are issued to users, but the function to me (especially while things are still touch and go) just keep working on things to improve stability.

I am not a "no problems here" user. Yes, there are problems. I still haven't downloaded units since they started being distributed a while ago, although until recently the scheduler was at least responding. Right not it appears to be non-responsive again and won't even let me upload. But oh well. That's how it goes sometimes. There isn't much I can do. Complaining about it won't cause it to miraculously resurect itself. The SETI team more than likely knows it's down, but it doesn't hurt to mention (not badger) it sometimes just in case they don't. I understand that. Some don't. And that is what bothers me most: the unfair senseless complaints and lack of understanding and patience. I do not stick my head in the sand. I do not think that criticism should even necessarily be avoided. It should however be constructive rather than destructive. It should also focus on what the problems are, not just that they exist. And when possible, it should also suggest alternatives, preferences for alternatives, etc.

They are underfunded, underpaid, underequipped, etc. That has made things difficult for the team and is continuing to do so. However to some very limited extent, it may have been "self-inflicted." However, they had to make some decisions here and there and at times made the hard choice, specifically, the release date. It's hard to say with absolute certainty that they did the right thing all the time, and it is hard to say with absolute certainty that they made made costly mistakes in the decisions they made. It's all very gray. But what is done is done, and that cannot be changed.

You should notice that in my posts I have not claimed that SETI is perfect said that legitimate complaints (like I mentioned above) should not be made. I have always supported posting problems people encounter and have posted some myself. What I HAVE spoken out against though are posts that flat out badmouth the efforts of the team and the project, those that demand and expect the project work perfectly, and those which make horribly inaccurate claims about the software or project.

And for you to tell me that if I "cannot take any criticism of this project I would suggest you take your crunching elsewhere" indicates that you misread/misinterpreted what I have posted and have not read other posts by me. My primary post in this thread spoke out against the complaints about people having to wait longer for things to be fixed because of Labor Day -- not complaints in general. I suggest you pay more attention to what I write next time -- I generally try choose my words carefully so that I say what I mean and mean what I say.

Chris

> Christopher, maybe you need to calm down then. I was responding to the issue
> of money and payment which was raised by Nedd. I am not suggesting the project
> goal is to make money but it will be the outcome (I believe). If you cannot
> take any crtiscism of this project I would suggest you take your crunching
> elsewhere. I do however happen to agree entirely with your views on the Seti
> team having a holiday.
>
> I believe the Seti staff are paid - I'm not suggesting they are getting rich
> or making big bucks but they are paid. This may be a not for profit but that
> doesnt mean unpaid volunteers (actually it does you and me). I can only
> presume they get paid to supply you and me with work units otherwise the
> project and their jobs would cease to exist. This is not meant as a critiscism
> just fact.
>
> What I do not agree with is the "no problems here attitude". There are many
> problems including insuficient funding, lack of resources, lack of information
> being given etc etc. Some of those problems the Seti team can do nothing about
> - some they can.
>
> If you want to stick your head in the sand and say "all OK, how dare you
> criticise" then so be it. If you want to defend the indefensible so be it. I
> believe it is not that black and white.
>
> I am not suggesting money is the goal or driving force however, if and when,
> somebody will make a lot of money IMHO.
>
> The Seti team are clearly doing a difficult job at a difficult time however at
> least part of those difficulties are self inflicted.
>
> Neil

It should be obvious considering the time and effort they put into this project despite the constant stream of complaints that they take it quite seriously. They have a bigger investment in the project than most people around here do.

> well it would be nice to know that seti admins take the project as seriously
> as alot of the people here.
>
> There is no timezone on the internet.
>
>