I agree with GREED... The world wasn't always capitalistic... People used to help each other (charity) because it was the right thing to do, people used to use their abilities (work) because it was the right thing to do... Then people got slothful but greedy and started devising a plan to make a lot of wealth while doing very little, hence, the advent of capitalism... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Where did that original wealth come from?

I believe I've already answered that question here.

Then, as usual, you would be wrong.

So, I'll re-ask. Where did wealth come from? What is wealth? How did the first guy who ever had wealth, get it?

Step up to the plate. Make an argument. Defend whatever postion you have.

I think it would be interesting to look at theTheory of Surplus Value.

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Responding with taglines and slogans does not make an argument, convincing or otherwise.

Someone hoarded up what everyone wanted (probably food or an offer of protection for pay).

How?

From the labour of the workers.

Without the consent of the workers, again, how?

Come on people, support your argument with facts, or even convincing inferences from research!

Wow.

This thread is turning into an "Atlas Shrugged" reading.

Jim, he didn not ask the motivation behind gathering wealth, he asked (and asked and asked again),
"Where did wealth come from?"
Answer that question before moving on to motivation.

From the labour of the workers.

What were those labourers working for? Why were they working at all, especially for someone else?

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

I think it would be interesting to look at theTheory of Surplus Value.

Sure. And why you are at it, you should look at the Theory of Geocentrism.

Or the Flat Earth Theory too.

Both of those are still widely held by physicists and cosmologists--they haven't been destroyed either. Ask Es.

You know. Because the earth is flat.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Time has clearly shown us that:

This is true ---> Theory of Surplus Value

This is not true ---> Flat Earth Theory

;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Time has clearly shown us that:

This is true ---> Theory of Surplus Value

This is not true ---> Flat Earth Theory

Again, make an argument. Why do YOU believe that TSV is legitimate? Address the point, provide some examples. Anything would be better than your erroneous pronouncements.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Dear Rush,

As I am interested in ideas, I thought I would try and understand where you were coming from. I thought that this would help me

yours in solidarity
Hev

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There are countless other people who can give you a viable path to personal fulfillment

From what I hear, our President was a draft dodger, graduated college with a 'c' average, and hey, look where that got him... Maybe I should have studied 'charismatics'... ;)

And Hitler was a failed painter with a 'dream'.

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Or is your contention that it isn't enough?

As long as there are people living in poverty, it isn't enough... ;)

A falsehood raised by those that want more!!!! If you raise everyone to what is now above the 'poverty line', the line is just raised! It is a never ending movement! True some people live like rats and I would not like to trade places with them, but that is NOT what you said.

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II Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
And for the record:
This verse is referring to the people who 'refuse' to work (the rich and the slothful), not the people who are not 'allowed' to work (the poor and the blacklisted)... ;)

And for the record Jeffrey, the very people you are so against are the very people trying sooo hard to make this come to pass, the Republicans and George Bush!!! It is the Democrats and their 'bigger governement' phylsophy that is against you. Yet people like you continue to vote them in! So taken in are you that you cannot see the light for the sun.

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"Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play."

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

"Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play."

Exactly, nobody!

BTW, welcome back and I like the new look.

No, it was meant honestly and I was not questioning you on it being voluntary, I was questioning you on whether every member of our U.S. military over the past 15-16 years truly, deeply understands what they're getting themselves into when the enlist.

The problem is Sarge, no one under the age of 50 'truly' and 'deeply' understands anything! Did you have a clue when you enlisted? I didn't? Would I do it again, in a heartbeat!!! Do I see things differently now, absolutely! But in the big picture is it worth it, absolutely. Was Vietnam worth it, no. BUT it was a Treaty we signed, and we had to go. Just as France, and the other Countries, would have had to come to the US if the Communists had attacked the US. Whether they would have come or not, is for the hypothesists to decide.
A Treaty is your word, just like your word is your bond. You give your hand to someone, you fully expect at all costs to live by that handshake. The US signed Treaties all over the World during the days leading upto VietNam. We got called on one of them. We had to go, no choice.

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Dear Rush,

As I am interested in ideas, I thought I would try and understand where you were coming from. I thought that this would help me

yours in solidarity
Hev

Hmmm..it seem that Objectivists believe that everything can be worked through using logic..there seems to be a huge lack of understanding of the human brain there...especially as they appear to believe that there is a knowable absolute reality. This is against the laws of physics, so it seems odd to base a so called 'logical' philosophy on it. The whole premise of Objectivism seems fatally flawed at it's foundations and almost bordering on cult ideology.

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Reality Internet Personality

"Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play."

I FOUND HIM, I FOUND NOBODY!!!! Do I win???
How were the ribs? Did you save me any? Same time next year?

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. . . in 'Context' and as well - 'Out of Context'

. . . mind-independent in a rather nuanced sense

@ Bill - Thank You Sir . . .

@ Mikey - YOU SIR!!! wouldn't 'Believe' HOW GOOD DEM RIBS B . . .

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

There are NO boundaries made upon anyone who lives here.

I wouldn't bet on that...

The fact is that 90 percent of the wealth in this country is held by 10 percent of the population... Without their 'approval', you don't advance... Very few have come up with ideas or inventions to defeat that system, and even fewer have 'worked' there way to the top... @ 5 bucks per hour, there just aren't enough hours in the day to make that amount to anything... Poor people don't ever get rich without the help of someone who is already rich... Crunch the numbers, you'll see, it doesn't add up... ;)

And Jeffrey the "numbers" can be crunched to show that 90% of people that come into this World rich leave it poor! Number are just numbers when you use them in large enough bunches. ANY Kid can get out of poverty, IF he wants to and has the drive to make it happen. LOTS of kids say they want to, but given the chance will not shovel cow shit for $2.00 an hour. Nor flip burgers for minimum wage. Some of the prime examples of your numbers game are the Asian immigrants, living 20 to a 2 bedroom home, running the local 7/11, and putting 6 kids thru College! They came to the the US in a leaky boat, with the clothes on their back and farming skills. BUT they had DRIVE, they wanted, HELL THEY NEEDED to achieve!!! And they did!!! Don't get on about that kid in the ghetto that plays basketball until 3 am and then runs when the cops come around the corner because someone might have some drugs in their pockets. Tell me about the immigrant family that the parents can't speak English yet the kids are getting STRAIGHT A'S and are never seen after school, because they are inside studying!!!
Poverty is a state of mind, if you think you are poor and are never going to be rich, you never will!!

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no one under the age of 50 'truly' and 'deeply' understands anything!

And here I've been thinking that everyone over 50 has lost their marbles... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .