By Guest Author David Darling
Astronomer & science writer

Is SETI - the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence - a religion? This is one of the topics that Jill Tarter, Director of the Center for SETI Research at the SETI Institute, and I discussed on Are We Alone?, the SETI Institute's weekly radio program on Wednesday May 17, 2006.

The discussion by Jill and I was in response to a claim made by George Basalla (professor emeritus of history at the University of Delaware) in his book Civilized Life in the Universe (Oxford University Press: 2006) that SETI is more of a faith-based enterprise than a genuine science. He points to SETI's failure to make "contact" after more than forty years of trying and its continuing efforts in the absence of any positive evidence as a sign that it relies more on a kind of religious zeal than anything else. (Incidentally, Basalla was invited to appear on the show but declined.)

...

SETI researchers know their limitations. They're restricted at present to searching for radio and optical signals - our own best, fastest means of getting messages across interstellar distance. Who knows what our galactic elders, if they exist, may be using to communicate with? We have no idea what is out there or what forms alien intelligence may take. We are, as Seth Shostak pointed out during the radio interview, like Columbus sailing into uncharted waters. We don't know what we'll find. But the quest is extraordinary, exciting, abundantly worthwhile, and true to the methodology and spirit of science.

The full story can be found here

Of Faith and Facts: Is SETI Religion?

Greetings from Germany NRW
Ulli

Also in this thread

Tiare Rivera.-

---

My photography world

I don't see where SETI is a religion anymore than exploring the ocean is. You are simply searching for what might be there. What you think is there, hope is there, wish is there doesn't matter except in conversation. I and many others are helping to search for what is there.

---

Thank GOD 4 our tenacity / convictions / beliefs and a willingness to assist in this endeavor . . . keep crunchin' folks

ps - building new system - will be up soon (crossed fingers0 ;_)

richard

---

BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

Thank GOD 4 our tenacity / convictions / beliefs and a willingness to assist in this endeavor . . . keep crunchin' folks

ps - building new system - will be up soon (crossed fingers0 ;_)

richard

Do tell us about the new system. What are you putting in it?

---

There are three basic types, Mr. Pizer, the wills, the won'ts, and the can'ts. The wills accomplish everything, the won'ts oppose everything, and the can'ts won't try anything.

Enrique . . .

> Intel Pentium 4 / 2.40 GHz / 1M / 533
> PNY Optima PC3200 - DDR400 (500 Mb Ram)getting 500 more soon . . .
> GigaByte P4 Titan GA-81PE1000-G Motherboard
> COMPUSA Alum. Box / 3 CoolDrives w/ approx. 600 GB Harddrives
> ATi Radeon 9550 AGP 256 Mb Graphics CARD
> Motorola Surboard EXT Modem w/ RR
> ViewSonic A91f+ Monitor
> Antec 500 Watt Smartpower 2.0 Power

and loads of 'cooling' for all including NorthBridge Artic Blue)

running MS XP SP2 (plus millions of fixes) , , , ;_)))

i'll be inventorying later when time allows - until then
hope this will suffice the bit of curiosity ;_)

richard (leonardo / nobody / richard w lubrich jr since February 29 2000)

---

BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

And furthermore, as already said, SETI doesn't 'pray' to aliens, or act differently to avoid punishment or gain praise. It doesn't have 'faith', it has educated guesstimates.
There is no 'bible of SETI'.
SETI does not style itself as immune to detractors.

The only person who would claim SETI as being a religion is someone who has no clue what science is. Sadly, there are so many of those types of people around...

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

There is no 'bible of SETI'.

Project Cyclops - the 'bible' and basis for much of modern SETI... ;)

Barney Oliver

Right. Your so-called 'proof' is one sentence:

The report that resulted from this study became the "bible" and basis for much of modern SETI

Notice the word is enclosed within quotes. The usage of quotes in english is to show a different meaning that is not actually the common one. We do this to make a best guess, hoping the reader will understand the connection we are trying to make. The author does not for one instant mean that it is an actual holy bible of SETI : thou shalt believe in aliens, thou shalt pray to the aliens, thou shalt worship SETI, thou shalt never question SETI nor become a heretic of SETI.

Furthermore, the author should have said 'reference manual'. In creating this manual, the process of science was used. You will find that process in chapter two, starting on pg.31 (bottom half) of "The Demon Haunted World", where Dr. Sagan talks about 'peer review'. Since religion never goes through any peer review, How could you correctly call any manual a 'bible'? The author of the piece makes a big error in using that word. They must not have had a thesaurus handy. That's why people use quotes around a word.


You're not contributing to knowledge at all jeffrey. You're obscuring it, as above where you obscure the use of quotation marks, and dumbing people down for your own religious agenda.

Carl Sagan mentions exactly that, by the way, in several parts of "The Demon Haunted World."

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

Right. Your so-called 'proof' is one sentence:

The report that resulted from this study became the "bible" and basis for much of modern SETI

Notice the word is enclosed within quotes. The usage of quotes in english is to show a different meaning that is not actually the common one. We do this to make a best guess, hoping the reader will understand the connection we are trying to make. The author does not for one instant mean that it is an actual holy bible of SETI : thou shalt believe in aliens, thou shalt pray to the aliens, thou shalt worship SETI, thou shalt never question SETI nor become a heretic of SETI.

Furthermore, the author should have said 'reference manual'. In creating this manual, the process of science was used. You will find that process in chapter two, starting on pg.31 (bottom half) of "The Demon Haunted World", where Dr. Sagan talks about 'peer review'. Since religion never goes through any peer review, How could you correctly call any manual a 'bible'? The author of the piece makes a big error in using that word. They must not have had a thesaurus handy. That's why people use quotes around a word.


You're not contributing to knowledge at all jeffrey. You're obscuring it, as above where you obscure the use of quotation marks, and dumbing people down for your own religious agenda.

Carl Sagan mentions exactly that, by the way, in several parts of "The Demon Haunted World."

Chuck, knowledge, reason, and facts are not useful for the mystic. They, by definition, are anathema to reality. After all, that is the reason a mystic deals in the 'supernatural' realm....it's an escape from the 'natural' realm (read:where we all live). There is no compatibility with the supernatural and the natural. If the supposed 'supernatural' realm were somehow methodically discovered or evidenced through science then it would cease to become SUPER-natural...it would only be part of our natural and rational world, susceptible to human reason and logic. That is something that is of utter absolute uselessness to the huckster selling snake oil mysticism and religion....

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Somehow I knew you two wouldn't get it... ;)

Get what, jeffrey? I explained the use of quotes around 'bible' in detail. You want to read 'religion' where it is not. You don't understand, and instead of thinking it through so that you do understand, you try to make it conform to your skewed view by replacing one religion with another. Does this sound familiar? If you have been reading 'Demon Haunted World', you'll find it on the bottom of pg. 30

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

Get what, jeffrey?

First off... The word was in quotes... Meaning it was used LOOSELY...
Secondly... The word had a LITTLE 'b' and not a BIG 'B'... Meaning it wasn't HOLY...
Thirdly... I linked the source so you could figure all this out...
Fourthly... It was meant to be FUNNY...

GET IT NOW? ;)

No. There's nothing 'funny' about a conversation that's in earnest. If you want to be funny, tell a joke.


This one always cracks me up:

What do you call a conscientious farmer?

A man who is outstanding in his field.

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

"In science it often happens that scientists say,
'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,'
and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear
that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen
as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is
sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the
last time someting like that happened in politics or religion."
~ Carl Sagan ~

So long as SETI is proveable/disproveable (and it is both) it is SCIENCE and NOT religion.

When you start replacing your god with SETI; worshipping it and praying to it, then it has become religion for YOU, and YOU need to be institutionalized.

So who was that idiot that thought SETI was a religion? There's a nice loony bin up here for wierdos that pray to SETI.

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

So long as SETI is proveable/disproveable (and it is both) it is SCIENCE and NOT religion.

I believe SETI exists... And it is provable...

ET? Well... That would be another story all together... ;)

Actually, ET does exist. Bacteria was found growing on the flag and other items they sent to the moon.

Bacteria have shown that they are very resilient. When Apollo 12 astronauts landed on the Moon in 1970, they found bacteria from Earth living there. The bacteria were found on a probe that had been sent to the Moon 3 years earlier. The bacteria had survived launch, 3 years of radiation exposure, freezing cold temperatures, lack of water and nutrients, and the vacuum of space.
from NASA:http://nasaexplores.nasa.gov/show2_5_8a.php?id=02-074&gl=58

So technically, ET has been found since there is bacteria that has never lived on earth. This has allowed them to view some erosion and find various indicators that lead them to believe that bacteria/microbes may exist on other moons. As well as taking measurements through ice fields here on earth may help find life in places like Europa.

---

TEAM
LL

Furthermore, ETs are also entirely proveable/disproveable.

Some people don't understand what that means, however.

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

For me, religion is the acceptance and worship of some being that is not proven to exist. The being, or beings, are taken to exist on faith.

SETI is scientific research. We don't worship extraterrestrials. Sadly, I fully believe that we'll probably start a war with or economically exploit them if we ever find any.

What we're fundamentally trying to do is prove the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life, not blindly extrapolate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

If somebody can irrefutably disprove the existence of ET, then I'll stop crunching.

Researching something for 40 years is nothing. I mean it took how many millennia before we stopped believing the Sun revolved around the Earth?

---