Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question.

The equation was a bonus response :)

Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the equations. But Eric's answer didn't include certain gases in the atmosphere (whaich are lacking in Martian atmosphere), including water vapor, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide which cause global warming as well as carbon dioxide.

I am fairly certain that the question was "CO2". You know..."why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

You didn't ask about the other factors.

Perhaps you could (as I did) look up words in the dictionary that are deviant from your particular area of expertise.

I think this thread is all about Fun With Global Warming. Not just all about CO2.

You may think it's about what you like.

If you don't want to only talk about CO2, don't ask a question about CO2.

Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question.

The equation was a bonus response :)

Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the equations. But Eric's answer didn't include certain gases in the atmosphere (whaich are lacking in Martian atmosphere), including water vapor, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide which cause global warming as well as carbon dioxide.

... the question was "CO2". You know..."why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

You didn't ask about the other factors.

Perhaps you could (as I did) look up words in the dictionary that are deviant from your particular area of expertise.

I think this thread is all about Fun With Global Warming. Not just all about CO2.

You may think it's about what you like.

Most illuminating and quite amusing!

I also see Eric's answer as being very good, beautifully concise, and to the point, and a good eye-opener as to why increasing the CO2 concentration in our atmosphere will undoubtably cause increased heating.

And then I see the FUD squirmings to throw in random buckshot of every jargon shrapnel that can be quickly grasped at to then create a silly ignorant smoke-screen.

Is Global Warming such a fun silly 'game' to some?

Certainly not my kind of fun. There are going to be wars over this. A good question is whether the USA will go nuclear over it... Reducing the population is certainly one fun method...


Thanks to Eric for a clear illustration. Sometimes a few equations can equal many thousands of words.

Regards,
Martin

Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question.

The equation was a bonus response :)

Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the equations. But Eric's answer didn't include certain gases in the atmosphere (which are lacking in Martian atmosphere), including water vapor, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide which cause global warming as well as carbon dioxide.

Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question.

The equation was a bonus response :)

Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the equations. But Eric's answer didn't include certain gases in the atmosphere (which are lacking in Martian atmosphere), including water vapor, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide which cause global warming as well as carbon dioxide.

If you wish to calculate the temperature increase for here on Earth, then you need only add/subtract the warming/cooling effects of those various other constituents that you allude to.

The simple facts are that the greatest significant constituents are CO2 and water vapour. Especially note that the level of CO2 also indirectly increases the water vapour content and so the CO2 warming effect is thus amplified.

All the carbon cycles on Earth have been very nicely kept in balance for hundreds of thousands of years and with good margin to allow for unbalancing influences such as volcanos.

And then came the industrial revolution that has for the first time in all that time upset the carbon balance on an industrial scale. The CO2 concentration in our atmosphere has proportionately increased in step with our industrialisation.

From recent worldwide events, it looks like we are drastically upsetting the weather balance and all that goes with it...

Now, do you know better? If so, please quote your reputable sources.

Regards,
Martin

Would you stay in a car on the rails just because you are not 100% convinced that the train will not manage to stop in time?

No, it's just that I am incapable of transfering knowledge to someone with a room temperature IQ, or a very yound child who can't grasp some very basic data or concepts.

@Mac

That link of yours led to a very good article which I've read. I've bookmarked it. THX

If my memory serves me correctly this thread once started over on the Seti Science Boards until someone hijacked it with their silly games. It was brought over to the Cafe so that the baffons could play with the topic in a lighter frame. Unfortunately, as you've noticed, the equillibum has gotten out of balance again, even under the Cafe standards.

No, it's just that I am incapable of transfering knowledge to someone with a room temperature IQ, or a very yound child who can't grasp some very basic data or concepts.

Dogbytes you are violating the posted rule, "No messages that are deliberately hostile or insulting."

For anyone posting this behavior is clearly unacceptable.

As a forum Moderator this behavior is shameful.

Please refrain from such behavior in the future.

Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question. The equation was a bonus response :)

Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the equations. But Eric's answer didn't include certain gases in the atmosphere (which are lacking in Martian atmosphere), including water vapor, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide which cause global warming as well as carbon dioxide.

If you wish to calculate the temperature increase for here on Earth, then you need only add/subtract the warming/cooling effects of those various other constituents that you allude to.
Regards,Martin

The warming effect of volcanos has been overated because the amounts of CO2 released by them aren't actually as much as been released by humans...plus the volcanos also release gases (eg the sulphur aerosols) and particulates that have a cooling effect on the planet.

On other thing to consider:
"NASA released exciting news last month: There is evidence suggesting water under the surface of Mars. ...

The simplest interpretation is that subterranean water was forced to the surface and then froze after flowing some distance."
If there is flowing water on Mars then there has to be some water vapor in the atmosphere! It is too warm in places not to have at least some of it evaporate.

So why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

Actually the greenhouse effect does cause significant warming on Mars. It's fairly easy to calculate the temperature that Mars would have without an atmosphere. The appropriate formula is simply

R_sun^2 T_sun^4 / d_mars^2 = 4*e_mars * T_mars^4 / (1 - a_mars)

or

T_mars=T_sun * sqrt(R_sun/(4*d_mars)*sqrt((1-a_mars)/e_mars))

where R_sun is the radius of the sun, T_sun is the effective photospheric temperature of the sun, d_mars is the distance from Mars to the sun, e_mars is the IR emissivity of mars, a_mars is the martian effective albedo, and T_mars is the martian surface temperature. Any freshman physics major can derive this for you.

Now for values: The solar temperature is 5785K, the radius of the sun is 0.696 million km, the mean distance from mars to the sun is 228 million km. The martian albedo is 0.15, and the IR emissivity is going to be larger than 1-a because nonmetallic solids tend to emit and absorb in the IR better than they do in the visible. Let's call it 0.95.

So the mean surface temperature of mars should be 155 Kelvin. The mean surface temperature is 210K, a difference of 55K. The most reasonable explanation is that the IR emissivity of Mars is less than would be expected. If you try to back substitute, you get that the Martian IR emissivity is about 0.28. In other words, mars radiates about 30% as much infrared energy as it should given its surface temperature. That is primarily because of the CO2 in its atmosphere.

Eric

Thanks Eric, I tried to keep it more simple...perhaps not enough. Your post was quite accurate and most enlightening. Very clear and concise.

And then there's always the planet Venus...you want global warming on a hellish scale...

Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question.

The equation was a bonus response :)

Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the equations. But Eric's answer didn't include certain gases in the atmosphere (whaich are lacking in Martian atmosphere), including water vapor, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide which cause global warming as well as carbon dioxide.

... the question was "CO2". You know..."why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

You didn't ask about the other factors.

Perhaps you could (as I did) look up words in the dictionary that are deviant from your particular area of expertise.

I think this thread is all about Fun With Global Warming. Not just all about CO2.

You may think it's about what you like.

Most illuminating and quite amusing!

I also see Eric's answer as being very good, beautifully concise, and to the point, and a good eye-opener as to why increasing the CO2 concentration in our atmosphere will undoubtably cause increased heating.

And then I see the FUD squirmings to throw in random buckshot of every jargon shrapnel that can be quickly grasped at to then create a silly ignorant smoke-screen.

Is Global Warming such a fun silly 'game' to some?

Certainly not my kind of fun. There are going to be wars over this. A good question is whether the USA will go nuclear over it... Reducing the population is certainly one fun method...


Thanks to Eric for a clear illustration. Sometimes a few equations can equal many thousands of words.

Regards,
Martin

Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question.

The equation was a bonus response :)

Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the equations. But Eric's answer didn't include certain gases in the atmosphere (whaich are lacking in Martian atmosphere), including water vapor, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide which cause global warming as well as carbon dioxide.

... the question was "CO2". You know..."why is CO2 causing global warming on Earth, when it is not on Mars, despite there being more CO2 in the atmosphere of Mars?

You didn't ask about the other factors.

Perhaps you could (as I did) look up words in the dictionary that are deviant from your particular area of expertise.

I think this thread is all about Fun With Global Warming. Not just all about CO2.

You may think it's about what you like.

Most illuminating and quite amusing!

I also see Eric's answer as being very good, beautifully concise, and to the point, and a good eye-opener as to why increasing the CO2 concentration in our atmosphere will undoubtably cause increased heating.

And then I see the FUD squirmings to throw in random buckshot of every jargon shrapnel that can be quickly grasped at to then create a silly ignorant smoke-screen.

Is Global Warming such a fun silly 'game' to some?

Certainly not my kind of fun. There are going to be wars over this. A good question is whether the USA will go nuclear over it... Reducing the population is certainly one fun method...


Thanks to Eric for a clear illustration. Sometimes a few equations can equal many thousands of words.

Regards,
Martin

Well if the nuclear card is played then I guess we won't have to worry too much about global warming...for multiple reasons including the nuclear winter, fallout, and that really hot bang that comes first.

Sir, are you the only one who doesn't understand Eric's answer? I thought his answer was quite simple and directly addressed the question.

The equation was a bonus response :)

Oh don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the equations. But Eric's answer didn't include certain gases in the atmosphere (which are lacking in Martian atmosphere), including water vapor, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and nitrous oxide which cause global warming as well as carbon dioxide.

If you wish to calculate the temperature increase for here on Earth, then you need only add/subtract the warming/cooling effects of those various other constituents that you allude to.

The simple facts are that the greatest significant constituents are CO2 and water vapour. Especially note that the level of CO2 also indirectly increases the water vapour content and so the CO2 warming effect is thus amplified.

All the carbon cycles on Earth have been very nicely kept in balance for hundreds of thousands of years and with good margin to allow for unbalancing influences such as volcanos.

And then came the industrial revolution that has for the first time in all that time upset the carbon balance on an industrial scale. The CO2 concentration in our atmosphere has proportionately increased in step with our industrialisation.

From recent worldwide events, it looks like we are drastically upsetting the weather balance and all that goes with it...

Now, do you know better? If so, please quote your reputable sources.

Regards,
Martin

The warming effect of volcanos has been overated because the amounts of CO2 released by them aren't actually as much as been released by humans...plus the volcanos also release gases (eg the sulphur aerosols) and particulates that have a cooling effect on the planet.

Well if the nuclear card is played then I guess we won't have to worry too much about global warming...for multiple reasons including the nuclear winter, fallout, and that really hot bang that comes first.

Too political...I'd rather have a 20Km astroid hit us at 50,000Kph and be done with it proper, and let the cockroachs have at it.

I rembmer that being widely discussed with Mt Pinatubo erupted which for a time caused world wide cooling to occur that was in 1991.

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me