I'll second that 'right' below.

But if the file access time is/was the problem and the anti-Q's are down below 600,000, then isn't it the unvalided files that is the problem now? That is, they must have the bulk of the file space. If so, then why weren't the file deleters turned off for a while and the validators turned on full blast?

I think there is a lot not being said here.

Uh, huh, like who can do math and who can't. If the average result file is 15K and 600,000 had to be removed, that would amount to only 9 gigs. Considering that the validator is 16.5 gigs in the hole, give or take, that's about a day ot two's worth of work space. Methinks they need more space AND a more efficient file management system. :o)

Oh, and the lab is not staffed 24/7 and they are not running this show on chron jobs, so it's "set it and go". They return the next day and repeat the steps based on the outcome of the last job run.

---

Stewie: So, is there any tread left on the tires? Or at this point would it be like throwing a hot dog down a hallway?

Fox Sunday (US) at 9PM ET/PT

[font='courier,courier new']psst! It's "cron", not "chron".[/font]

---

[font='courier,courier new']psst! It's "cron", not "chron".[/font]

Depends on who you're writing for...cron is derived from chronological.

Damn that Latin... :o)

---

Stewie: So, is there any tread left on the tires? Or at this point would it be like throwing a hot dog down a hallway?

Fox Sunday (US) at 9PM ET/PT

Damn that Latin... :o)

Old Greek, Sir

---

jbs

...and for all those secret listeners Mozart wrote his Canons KV 231 and KV 233

I think there is a lot not being said here.

I concur, with Rom stating that "if x doesn't work they'll be replacing it with a different device and File system", it pretty much tells me they aren't entirely sure the antiques are indeed THE only problem.

tony

Hmmm.... As much as people read between the lines here (and this isn't aimed at Tony) it seems that more folks would realize that the real problem is the sheer number of files.

Some of those files were "antiques" that are of no conceivable use -- and would never be deleted with the current system. They needed to be gone.

When you get rid of the antiques, there is still a great ruddy stack of files.

I've got a server here (nothing to do with SETI) that had a very similar situation, you can't even list the directory unless you've got an hour.

It is very hard to fix this kind of problem because all of the fixes include dealing with the slow directory. Changing the directory fan-out means touching every single file in the upload/download directories. Moving work units into BLOBs means touching every single file in the upload/download directories.

But basically, now that the orphans are gone, the non-orphaned, non-antique work units have built up, and now they have to be shoved through.

Now, I could be wrong, but it sure seems to match what they're doing, and there are plenty of bits here and there that can be fairly easily assembled into the story above.

Now, before someone say something like "well, that's the way you say it when you don't want to criticize the project" -- I'm generally not that interested in blame (or the kind of blamestorming that usually goes on here). Placing blame does not fix the problem -- the problem exists, people are working (on the weekend) to fix it, and we can see direct evidence of their actions.

We don't have to like the problem, but it looks like they're trying very hard to do as much as they can to fix it.

... and they are trying hard to avoid the one quick fix: killing the directories and starting over.

---

Anger is brewing....?

yeah, this server uses obsolete version of mysql (3.23.49) and php (4.3.10) though apache is the latest 1.3.33... I didn't know the system is so old.

It may be secure (or it may not be secure),

However it's time for anger !! Darth Vader said to Luke:

Darth Vader: Impressive. Most impressive. Obi-Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me.


grow your anger and open a flame war against the system or boinc or berkeley or whatever you want!!!! (I'll be watching silently.)

I participate in beta project, but I'm afraid it'll be delayed...there should be more problems with it other than database problems. Now I'm hopefully crunching for LHC,Einstein.

---

Luckiest in the world. WMD = Weapon of Mass Distraction.
Click this table.

Darth Vader said:

Darth Vader: Impressive. Most impressive. Obi-Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me.

Yeah... I'm sooo mad right now I think I'll... uhh...I'll.... have a beer.
There... much better. Now let's all join in and sing the Happy Happy Joy Joy Song, by our old friend Stinky Wizzleteets.

Anger is always brewing in one form or another... but most seem to have to post it to the world that they are angry... Seti's problems are being worked on, yes maybe they should've done this (going offline) a month or two ago... but hey NO ONE is perfect... beside if my lil'old system took the beating SETI's did... mine would've failed loooooonnnnngggg ago... and I'd just be mad at myself for not paying attention, and everyone 'bitching' about on a message board doesn't help.

So lets all just sit down, toss a steak or some ribs on the Q, grab a beer(case) and just lounge about for the weekend, and see what happens on Monday...

C'ya l8r...

---

Mark

actually WFV is goind down. However, delivering new WU's is another thing; scheduler is still disabled although it's running on another machine (galileo) than validators (penguin). There must be a problem with scheduler....it's too early to be relaxed....

No more trouble!!!

actually WFV is goind down. However, delivering new WU's is another thing; scheduler is still disabled although it's running on another machine (galileo) than validators (penguin). There must be a problem with scheduler....it's too early to be relaxed....

18.18h - 1,147,428
18.53h - 1,128,
19.32h - 1.113,956
20.05h - 1.095,205


In monday morning- it should be O.... and then scheduler will be turned ON... I hope so...

---

actually WFV is goind down. However, delivering new WU's is another thing; scheduler is still disabled although it's running on another machine (galileo) than validators (penguin). There must be a problem with scheduler....it's too early to be relaxed....

The problem with the scheduler (and upload/download servers) is that they add files to the system at a time when we don't need any more files.

So, no, not "broken" -- intentionally turned off.

If you need to hear that from Matt or Rom, I'll leave tracking down the actual messages/news as an exercise to the reader.

---

So, no, not "broken" -- intentionally turned off.

If you need to hear that from Matt or Rom, I'll leave tracking down the actual messages/news as an exercise to the reader.

I wish so....but in reality no WU's are delivered, though WFV is dropping rapidly...why?

1. THere are still other hidden or unexplained troubles.
2. Just waiting for finishing validation....but why? It will take some time (a few days) for participants to return many results back to the validators. Now that validators are working properly and quickly, they can deliver new WU's.

I strongly guess #1 is correct, because seti/boinc has so many troubles recently.

---

Luckiest in the world. WMD = Weapon of Mass Distraction.
Click this table.

I wish so....but in reality no WU's are delivered, though WFV is dropping rapidly...why?

1. THere are still other hidden or unexplained troubles.
2. Just waiting for finishing validation....but why? It will take some time (a few days) for participants to return many results back to the validators. Now that validators are working properly and quickly, they can deliver new WU's.

I strongly guess #1 is correct, because seti/boinc has so many troubles recently.

I'm betting on #2. When ever they open the flood gates there will about a million results start flooding in. If they do it now, they'll have a 2 million validation backlog. Wait until it's bled down to near 0, and they won't any worse off than they were last... Tuesday, was it?

I wish so....but in reality no WU's are delivered, though WFV is dropping rapidly...why?

1. THere are still other hidden or unexplained troubles.
2. Just waiting for finishing validation....but why? It will take some time (a few days) for participants to return many results back to the validators. Now that validators are working properly and quickly, they can deliver new WU's.

I strongly guess #1 is correct, because seti/boinc has so many troubles recently.

Nothing hidden, nothing unexplained. Matt and Rom have described exactly what is going on, and why.

Time will tell...and of course I wish it would be up sooner. but I am pessimistic on it (I am usually optimistic on anything.) Anger is brewing.....

"A drowning man will catch at a straw"...which may be "Technical News"..I wish not.

---

Luckiest in the world. WMD = Weapon of Mass Distraction.
Click this table.

To those who think the current situation is not acceptable....
Remember: this is done on a shoe-string.

The only cost to you is your electric.

If you don't want to contribute, then don't. You won't be missed.

No-one is twisting your arm, or in any other way forcing you to play with this train set.

It's berkeleys train set. Not mine. Not yours. theirs.!!

I am getting really fed up with those who only moan, moan, moan, about somthing thats free..

IT'S FREE.

If you dont like it, naff off. (seti Classic users, be welcome, and ignore me, I'm not talking to you)

{snip}

Now I have had my say. It's rather unusual for me to get pissed off. But I am.

I need to go, and take a chill pill...

{Edited As I went OTT}

---

Foamy is "Lord and Master".
(Oh, + some Classic WUs too.)

So, no, not "broken" -- intentionally turned off.

If you need to hear that from Matt or Rom, I'll leave tracking down the actual messages/news as an exercise to the reader.

I wish so....but in reality no WU's are delivered, though WFV is dropping rapidly...why?

1. THere are still other hidden or unexplained troubles.
2. Just waiting for finishing validation....but why? It will take some time (a few days) for participants to return many results back to the validators. Now that validators are working properly and quickly, they can deliver new WU's.

I strongly guess #1 is correct, because seti/boinc has so many troubles recently.

Okay, let's do it this way:

Start with what ROM said here.

The validators were turned off to let the deleters catch up.

Late morning, the validators were turned on and the transitioners and deleters were turne off, and at that time the WFV queue started going down dramatically.

So, let's assume that the information from the project is true, and that the people like Rom are not lying through their teeth.

So, I'll point back to the technical news as it seems to say that all of this work is sitting in the same file under the same directory from the moment we upload finished work until it is deleted, and given that trying to clean this up with the project up didn't work, and trying to clean this up with short outages didn't work, and given that we've been down since Tuesday they are expecting 390,000 machines to start beating on the front door the moment they restart the project, it's probably a pretty good idea to wait until the directories are pretty damned clean before they open the floodgates.

Sorry for the rant, but this seems so very IOTTMCO, especially based on past performance after an outage.

... but since I'm on my soapbox already, what good does it to sit here and fret over all of the problems?

We, as users, can't really do a whole lot about them. We can't go to Berkeley and tap on keyboards to make the NAS box go any faster.

We have to be patient. Not because it's a good thing to do, but because there is quite literally nothing we can do to help. Seriously. If we all chipped in today and sent all new incredibly fast hardware, we'd still have to wait for all of the files to be moved off of the NAS box they have -- and that'll take a long time.

There is a saying: "The production of a baby takes nine months, no matter how many women are assigned to the task."

Waiting is. Not because it's good, but because anything else will just make it take longer.

---

I need to go, and take a chill pill...

Watching this thread I'm getting bored since it startet. Here's _my_ chill pill: Put on my headphones, now running "Highway To Hell". The next may be "Nutcracker Suite", that's what is exiting. Lean back, be patient...
And for those whos anger grows, look at my sign

---

jbs

...and for all those secret listeners Mozart wrote his Canons KV 231 and KV 233

To those who think the current situation is not acceptable....
Remember: this is done on a shoe-string.

The only cost to you is your electric.

If you don't want to contribute, then don't. You won't be missed.

No-one is twisting your arm, or in any other way forcing you to play with this train set.

It's berkeleys train set. Not mine. Not yours. theirs.!!

I am getting really fed up with those who only moan, moan, moan, about somthing thats free..

IT'S FREE.

If you dont like it, naff off. (seti Classic users, be welcome, and ignore me, I'm not talking to you)

{snip}

Now I have had my say. It's rather unusual for me to get pissed off. But I am.

I need to go, and take a chill pill...

{Edited As I went OTT}

I couldn't agree more! I'm here to do my little bit to help with the science, not accumulate points. Someone in another post said it is nice to watch the points go up, but that's not the main deal here, imho.

I thank the folks at Berkely and I believe they should continue to admin these systems so the science gets done correctly...if they have time, then deal with credits and other fluff.

I really enjoy these forums when there is give and take on technical issues, but it gets very discouraging sometimes to weed through all the sass from easily bruised egos and folks who are here to exercise their venom glands.

For the project folks I have a big attaboy; keep the positive side in front and we'll all get the benefits.

OK, I have my asbestos underwear on. Flame on....

{Edit}
btw, I'm down 80 wu's today according to Andy's most excellent app. Yea team!

---

"Be all that you can be...considering." Harold Green

However it's time for anger !! Darth Vader said to Luke:

Darth Vader: Impressive. Most impressive. Obi-Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me.

grow your anger and open a flame war against the system or boinc or berkeley or whatever you want!!!! (I'll be watching silently.)

Sounds like a posting to Flame of the Day!