Crimea 3


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Sirius B
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Message 1518829 - Posted: 20 May 2014, 22:23:54 UTC

Crimea

Crimea 2

Over 500 posts so time for part 3.
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Message 1518994 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 3:42:00 UTC

Any bets how many Crimea's there will be.
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Message 1519104 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 9:19:47 UTC

I can't:) I'm in the UK:)

[edit] Otherwise I would have voted 'Green', that's the name of the party here in Belgium.

Of course you can vote.
Even in Russia you can vote regradless of your nationality.
If you are in the UK it doesn't matter.
Talk about this with your friends in UK.

One has to be registered to vote, Julie presumably is registered to vote in her district in Belgium, so she won't be able to vote while she's currently in the UK.
(That's the way i read it, please correct if wrong).
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Message 1519106 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 10:02:06 UTC - in response to Message 1518994.
Last modified: 21 May 2014, 10:12:29 UTC

Any bets how many Crimea's there will be

CLYDE, will be many, I think so.... If we continue to feed the trolls from Russia!
See for yourself:
....The Ukraine does not exist.... Message 1518750 - Posted: 20 May 2014, 14:40:37 UTC topic Crimea 2

The man from Australia did not write anything for six years (latest post 2204 days ago = 6 years),now suddenly he needed to discuss Ukraine...
See this account http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_user_posts.php?userid=1371886 which has been hacked,surely...
Same can be said in response: "The Australia does not exist... Harold Edward Holt was captured by the soviet submarine.... or more rights for Aboriginal people o.Tasmaniya".
But I will not say it.... This work - from "russian friends", perhaps our old friends from this forum! Their purpose - bump heads Ukraine with other countries!

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Message 1519107 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 10:06:27 UTC - in response to Message 1519104.

I can't:) I'm in the UK:)

[edit] Otherwise I would have voted 'Green', that's the name of the party here in Belgium.

Of course you can vote.
Even in Russia you can vote regradless of your nationality.
If you are in the UK it doesn't matter.
Talk about this with your friends in UK.

One has to be registered to vote, Julie presumably is registered to vote in her district in Belgium, so she won't be able to vote while she's currently in the UK.
(That's the way i read it, please correct if wrong).



You're right Simonator:)
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Message 1519114 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 10:37:45 UTC - in response to Message 1519106.

The man from Australia did not write anything for six years (latest post 2204 days ago = 6 years),now suddenly he needed to discuss Ukraine...
See this account http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_user_posts.php?userid=1371886 which has been hacked,surely...



I can assure you I am the same as always, recently returned to processing for BOINC and so recently returned to the forum.

See this short summary of history of early Ukraine:

Following its fragmentation in the 13th century, Ukraine was contested, ruled and divided by a variety of powers. A Cossack republic emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries, but Ukraine remained otherwise divided until its consolidation into a Soviet republic in the 20th century, becoming an independent state only in 1991.


The Australian colonies were Federated in 1901, 90 years before the Ukraine became the independent nation you wish that it was.

Never mind that though, I'm not here to tell you about your national beliefs or how to fight your civil war.
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Profile Alex Stiletto
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Message 1519131 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 12:14:53 UTC - in response to Message 1519114.
Last modified: 21 May 2014, 13:07:04 UTC

The Australian colonies were Federated in 1901, 90 years before the Ukraine became the independent nation you wish that it was.

You, dude from Australia, do you know the fact that Ukraine (independently from the Soviet Union) was one of the founders of the United Nations in 1945?
This is knows even a 10-year kids in Ukraine! For You, also, map of Europe, published in Lausanne 1918. You know where that is,Lausanne...? :)
You can compare with the map Ukraine 2014. We lost a quarter of its historical lands! As well as the Ukrainian people have lost, tens of millions! This - results so-called "activities" soviet (implied - russian) communists and german nazis! But Ukraine - has always been and will be, for centuries to come!

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Message 1519132 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 12:21:43 UTC - in response to Message 1519107.
Last modified: 21 May 2014, 12:40:14 UTC

I can't:) I'm in the UK:)

[edit] Otherwise I would have voted 'Green', that's the name of the party here in Belgium.

Of course you can vote.
Even in Russia you can vote regradless of your nationality.
If you are in the UK it doesn't matter.
Talk about this with your friends in UK.

One has to be registered to vote, Julie presumably is registered to vote in her district in Belgium, so she won't be able to vote while she's currently in the UK.
(That's the way i read it, please correct if wrong).



You're right Simonator:)


He's wrong.
The same voting rules in the EU applies to all EU citizens.
You can read more here how it works if you work and live in another country.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/elections-abroad/ep-elections/
Maybe formalities differs between countries.

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Message 1519135 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 12:54:09 UTC - in response to Message 1519132.

I can't:) I'm in the UK:)

[edit] Otherwise I would have voted 'Green', that's the name of the party here in Belgium.

Of course you can vote.
Even in Russia you can vote regradless of your nationality.
If you are in the UK it doesn't matter.
Talk about this with your friends in UK.

One has to be registered to vote, Julie presumably is registered to vote in her district in Belgium, so she won't be able to vote while she's currently in the UK.
(That's the way i read it, please correct if wrong).



You're right Simonator:)


He's wrong.
The same voting rules in the EU applies to all EU citizens.
You can read more here how it works if you work and live in another country.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/elections-abroad/ep-elections/
Maybe formalities differs between countries.


Hm, won't have time there to go vote me thinks, it's not that important to me either, thanx for the link anyway:)
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Sirius B
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Message 1519138 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 13:08:26 UTC

I bet dear old Vlad won't like this & will mention it when they meet...

Prince Charles compares Putin to "you know who"
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Message 1519140 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 13:12:24 UTC - in response to Message 1519131.

Alex I don't doubt that the country has existed on maps since WWI and yes the Ukraine was a founding member of the UN (separately from Russia, to keep the Soviets in Moscow happy).

Those things alone don't make a united national identity.

Seems to me that central and western Ukrainians speak a different language and share a different history from many Ukrainians of the south and east of the country.

That speaks to having two distinct national identities within one country and when that means that your country cannot be effectively governed the nation will sooner or later fail.
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Message 1519152 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 13:37:32 UTC - in response to Message 1519140.

Alex I don't doubt that the country has existed on maps since WWI and yes the Ukraine was a founding member of the UN (separately from Russia, to keep the Soviets in Moscow happy).

Those things alone don't make a united national identity.

Seems to me that central and western Ukrainians speak a different language and share a different history from many Ukrainians of the south and east of the country.

That speaks to having two distinct national identities within one country and when that means that your country cannot be effectively governed the nation will sooner or later fail.

Well...

In China: Many different peoples, languages, cultures, etc., forcibly held together by 'Strong-arm' Governments. Why stop with Ukraine?

Breakup China!!!

I give Daykay the 'Golden Finger Award' for the silliest argument in this discussion.
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Message 1519154 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 13:43:36 UTC - in response to Message 1519152.

Don't forget the EU :-)
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Message 1519188 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 15:51:10 UTC - in response to Message 1519140.

Seems to me that central and western Ukrainians speak a different language and share a different history from many Ukrainians of the south and east of the country.

BINGO, the same goes for Quebec in Canadian, different language being the big divider. The pinkos in the US get their panties in a bunch when those in the know insist on English being the only legal language. IF a business wants me to press 1 for Inglish so be it but not the government.
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Message 1519198 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 16:11:37 UTC - in response to Message 1519188.

Seems to me that central and western Ukrainians speak a different language and share a different history from many Ukrainians of the south and east of the country.

BINGO, the same goes for Quebec in Canadian, different language being the big divider. The pinkos in the US get their panties in a bunch when those in the know insist on English being the only legal language. IF a business wants me to press 1 for Inglish so be it but not the government.


Hmm, maybe France should claim a government building and make a referendum. Then a part of Canade would belong to France....
That's the Crimea way. That's not the way it should be done, me thinks.

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Message 1519206 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 16:23:24 UTC - in response to Message 1519198.

Seems to me that central and western Ukrainians speak a different language and share a different history from many Ukrainians of the south and east of the country.

BINGO, the same goes for Quebec in Canadian, different language being the big divider. The pinkos in the US get their panties in a bunch when those in the know insist on English being the only legal language. IF a business wants me to press 1 for Inglish so be it but not the government.


Hmm, maybe France should claim a government building and make a referendum. Then a part of Canade would belong to France....
That's the Crimea way. That's not the way it should be done, me thinks.

...and some people in Quebec would be very happy about that, and some would want independence and some would want to stay in Canada. It would be a mess.

Throw in other outside interests into the mix stirring the pot and it would be even worse.
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Message 1519245 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 17:19:57 UTC


Hmm, maybe France should claim a government building and make a referendum. Then a part of Canade would belong to France....
That's the Crimea way. That's not the way it should be done, me thinks.

That is not as farfetched as you may think. Saint Pierre and Miquelon two islands a stones throw from Canada are French territory, they even use the Euro.
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Message 1519407 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 20:54:21 UTC

Well congratulations to all of you missing the point about effective national government.

Quebec has dealt with separatist elements of Quebecois national identity by changing attitudes and ensuring that that element is an accepted and catered for part of the Canadian national identity as a whole.


China has millennia of history where many unique nations have been ruled under the Chinese empire. Generally controlled by force but effectively so that they enforce a national identity.

In Australia there are many immigrants that make up our nation. Our government fosters multiculturalism and acceptance to keep peace and establish an Australian national identity rich in cultural diversity.

Ukrainian is a nation deeply divided and no government will be able to effectively overcome that division to make decisions in the national interest of Ukraine as a whole.
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Message 1519417 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 21:27:25 UTC - in response to Message 1519140.
Last modified: 21 May 2014, 21:55:23 UTC

Alex I don't doubt that the country has existed on maps since WWI and yes the Ukraine was a founding member of the UN (separately from Russia, to keep the Soviets in Moscow happy).
Those things alone don't make a united national identity.
Seems to me that central and western Ukrainians speak a different language and share a different history from many Ukrainians of the south and east of the country.
That speaks to having two distinct national identities within one country and when that means that your country cannot be effectively governed the nation will sooner or later fail.

Daykay, my new interlocutor! The language is also at anything! We live in the extreme south and and we talk (among themselves) on the Russian ...
We know the Ukrainian language! We are for a United Ukraine and such - hundreds of thousands! Take good care, please, in respect the wonderful country Australia! Do not you understand that it's all artificially, from the outside ... revenge from the former president, who fled the country and who stole more than $ 100 billion from the budget of the country! Now he, from Russia, is sponsoring of terrorists that try bring him back!
Here is his rangers from Russia (sm.video from May 20, 2014, series number 2, questioning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E25SjKJKjpA
News in detail:"KYIV, May 21 /Ukrinform/. Ukrainian security forces detained two members of the illegal armed groups that conducted intelligence activities near roadblocks controlled by Ukrainian militaries as part of the anti-terrorist operation (ATO). ATO spokesman Vladyslav Selezniov wrote on his Facebook page.
"During the detention, the militants carried two RPG-26 (light anti-tank weapon), two RPG-7V, AK-74 with an under-barrel grenade launcher, Kalashnikov bullets, grenades for under-barrel grenade launchers. The detainees testified about their activities aimed at destabilizing the situation in the eastern regions of Ukraine", Selezniov wrote. According to him, the information received confirms the active involvement of servicemen of the Russian Federation, in particular, FSB and GRU officers in training militants who carry out terrorist acts on the territory of Ukraine, engaged in banditry and murders.Thus, one of the detained militants said he underwent training in the territory of one of the units in Rostov region of Russia. At a military training ground, he and his associates underwent training, studied the rules of using MANPADS and RPGs. Also, Selezniov noted that the detainees provided other latest information that would be useful for Ukrainian security forces during specific tasks within the anti-terrorist operation."
Link here http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/news/two_russian_saboteurs_detained_in_ato_area_321693
"The 128th brigade of special purpose, scout ..." - inscription on the vest! This is - Russian Federation ... :)
Therefore, such is the situation... A new kind of war, the hybrid...
Here's to you, in Australia - of terrorists from another country! What would you say?
For example, we have all seen reactions the UK to the Falkland Islands! But small islands - is not the Crimea! God save Australia from such a fate!

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Message 1519436 - Posted: 21 May 2014, 21:54:12 UTC - in response to Message 1519417.

Regardless of external forces possibly (even probably) at work in the overthrow of your former government and the unrest going on today the fact is that Ukrainian national government can't keep everyone satisfied.

It should not be so easy to change the national constitution without the majority approval from the majority of regional areas.

Why don't we hear of Crimean people protesting their occupation by unwelcome forces? There is no guerilla war going on there. Where are the freedom fighters? There are none because the Crimean people are generally happier in this new situation than they were before.

If it is so easy for covert agencies to cause an uprising then the people were only in need of leadership.
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