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Sirius B
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Message 1395644 - Posted: 27 Jul 2013, 17:52:22 UTC

Come Summer 2014, I'll have been working in the transport industry in one form or another for 40 years. for the first 20 odd, it was military followed by public transport. during that time, this: -

bus loses roof

..was a rarity, now it seems to occur regularly. What price training or common sense? Looking at the bus, it looks pretty similar to those used in London. Those buses range from a minimum of 13'9" to 14'9" & there's no way in hell any would go through that bridge without mishap.

Based on those facts, even though there will be no bridges, if this ever takes off, wonder what the accident stats will be?

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Message 1395725 - Posted: 27 Jul 2013, 21:55:18 UTC

There is stupid and there is major stupid.

I happen to commute on California Route 110, aka The Historic Arroyo Seco Parkway nee The Pasadena Freeway, to work. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Arroyo+Seco+Parkway,+Los+Angeles,+CA&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&ei=dT_0Ue-HM8n8iwKoh4CADw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg A quick check of http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/truckmap/truckmap-d07.pdf shows a special restriction:

RESTRICTION Rte 110 Pasadena Freeway Jct Rte 101 (PM 23.7) to Glenarm St. in Pasadena (PM 31.9) No commercial vehicles over 6,000 pounds
I note here http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/payload/ that all Ford F-150 pickup trucks are over 6000 pounds GVW. Just so you all get the intention that this road is for passenger cars only, and they mean that. Why? Two reasons. There is one bridge over the road that is a tad short of the clearance requirements for HGV / Big Rig trucks, but they will pass but with about 2 inch clearance in one of the lanes, much better in the center lane. Second, every on and off ramp is so tight and curved they will jack knife a HGV if they attempt to negotiate it. Feel free to use street view and drive it.

Despite this official restriction, which has been in place for at least as long as I've been alive, and the signs "No Trucks" at least once a month I see a 53 foot STAA truck on this route. I've seen them jack knifed trying to get on and off as well. Why are they there? GPS. Or more explicitly use of a passenger vehicle GPS in a HGV vehicle. They need a different database so it selects routes appropriate for the size of the rig.

Stupid is.

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Message 1395736 - Posted: 27 Jul 2013, 23:08:17 UTC - in response to Message 1395725.

There is stupid and there is major stupid.

I happen to commute on California Route 110, aka The Historic Arroyo Seco Parkway nee The Pasadena Freeway, to work. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Arroyo+Seco+Parkway,+Los+Angeles,+CA&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&ei=dT_0Ue-HM8n8iwKoh4CADw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg A quick check of http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/truckmap/truckmap-d07.pdf shows a special restriction:
RESTRICTION Rte 110 Pasadena Freeway Jct Rte 101 (PM 23.7) to Glenarm St. in Pasadena (PM 31.9) No commercial vehicles over 6,000 pounds
I note here http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/payload/ that all Ford F-150 pickup trucks are over 6000 pounds GVW. Just so you all get the intention that this road is for passenger cars only, and they mean that. Why? Two reasons. There is one bridge over the road that is a tad short of the clearance requirements for HGV / Big Rig trucks, but they will pass but with about 2 inch clearance in one of the lanes, much better in the center lane. Second, every on and off ramp is so tight and curved they will jack knife a HGV if they attempt to negotiate it. Feel free to use street view and drive it.

Despite this official restriction, which has been in place for at least as long as I've been alive, and the signs "No Trucks" at least once a month I see a 53 foot STAA truck on this route. I've seen them jack knifed trying to get on and off as well. Why are they there? GPS. Or more explicitly use of a passenger vehicle GPS in a HGV vehicle. They need a different database so it selects routes appropriate for the size of the rig.

Stupid is.

Yeah that route is tight, I've driven up and down it in the past, I used to live in San Gabriel CA, I don't know if more modern bridges could be installed there or not, but that would take care of the clearance problem, though the on/off ramps are sorta like taking off and landing on an aircraft carrier, as you practically need a catapult to keep from being run over there or arresting gear to help one stop you'd think, their that short and old...
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Message 1395773 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 4:24:09 UTC - in response to Message 1395736.

There is stupid and there is major stupid.

I happen to commute on California Route 110, aka The Historic Arroyo Seco Parkway nee The Pasadena Freeway, to work. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Arroyo+Seco+Parkway,+Los+Angeles,+CA&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&ei=dT_0Ue-HM8n8iwKoh4CADw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg A quick check of http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/truckmap/truckmap-d07.pdf shows a special restriction:
RESTRICTION Rte 110 Pasadena Freeway Jct Rte 101 (PM 23.7) to Glenarm St. in Pasadena (PM 31.9) No commercial vehicles over 6,000 pounds
I note here http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/payload/ that all Ford F-150 pickup trucks are over 6000 pounds GVW. Just so you all get the intention that this road is for passenger cars only, and they mean that. Why? Two reasons. There is one bridge over the road that is a tad short of the clearance requirements for HGV / Big Rig trucks, but they will pass but with about 2 inch clearance in one of the lanes, much better in the center lane. Second, every on and off ramp is so tight and curved they will jack knife a HGV if they attempt to negotiate it. Feel free to use street view and drive it.

Despite this official restriction, which has been in place for at least as long as I've been alive, and the signs "No Trucks" at least once a month I see a 53 foot STAA truck on this route. I've seen them jack knifed trying to get on and off as well. Why are they there? GPS. Or more explicitly use of a passenger vehicle GPS in a HGV vehicle. They need a different database so it selects routes appropriate for the size of the rig.

Stupid is.

Yeah that route is tight, I've driven up and down it in the past, I used to live in San Gabriel CA, I don't know if more modern bridges could be installed there or not, but that would take care of the clearance problem, though the on/off ramps are sorta like taking off and landing on an aircraft carrier, as you practically need a catapult to keep from being run over there or arresting gear to help one stop you'd think, their that short and old...

Bridge replacement wouldn't solve it, they would need to regrade to increase the vertical separation. Also on that truck route map is two height warnings, one at 13 feet 5 inches and another at 13 feet 6 inches. Trucks are permitted to be 14 feet tall with load, most run 13 feet 6 inches, so that 13 foot 5 inch bridge would be struck.

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Message 1395781 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 6:02:59 UTC - in response to Message 1395773.
Last modified: 28 Jul 2013, 6:03:38 UTC

There is stupid and there is major stupid.

I happen to commute on California Route 110, aka The Historic Arroyo Seco Parkway nee The Pasadena Freeway, to work. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Arroyo+Seco+Parkway,+Los+Angeles,+CA&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&ei=dT_0Ue-HM8n8iwKoh4CADw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg A quick check of http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/truckmap/truckmap-d07.pdf shows a special restriction:
RESTRICTION Rte 110 Pasadena Freeway Jct Rte 101 (PM 23.7) to Glenarm St. in Pasadena (PM 31.9) No commercial vehicles over 6,000 pounds
I note here http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/payload/ that all Ford F-150 pickup trucks are over 6000 pounds GVW. Just so you all get the intention that this road is for passenger cars only, and they mean that. Why? Two reasons. There is one bridge over the road that is a tad short of the clearance requirements for HGV / Big Rig trucks, but they will pass but with about 2 inch clearance in one of the lanes, much better in the center lane. Second, every on and off ramp is so tight and curved they will jack knife a HGV if they attempt to negotiate it. Feel free to use street view and drive it.

Despite this official restriction, which has been in place for at least as long as I've been alive, and the signs "No Trucks" at least once a month I see a 53 foot STAA truck on this route. I've seen them jack knifed trying to get on and off as well. Why are they there? GPS. Or more explicitly use of a passenger vehicle GPS in a HGV vehicle. They need a different database so it selects routes appropriate for the size of the rig.

Stupid is.

Yeah that route is tight, I've driven up and down it in the past, I used to live in San Gabriel CA, I don't know if more modern bridges could be installed there or not, but that would take care of the clearance problem, though the on/off ramps are sorta like taking off and landing on an aircraft carrier, as you practically need a catapult to keep from being run over there or arresting gear to help one stop you'd think, their that short and old...

Bridge replacement wouldn't solve it, they would need to regrade to increase the vertical separation. Also on that truck route map is two height warnings, one at 13 feet 5 inches and another at 13 feet 6 inches. Trucks are permitted to be 14 feet tall with load, most run 13 feet 6 inches, so that 13 foot 5 inch bridge would be struck.

Yeah, good point Gary, if there is room to do that at each bridge location, kind of doubt new bridges would be put in, unless there was a real urgent need, like down on the 60 to replace a bridge that was made unsafe cause of that gasoline tanker fire that happened there or an earthquake or something.
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Message 1395836 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 11:46:26 UTC

No GPS on buses & as can be clearly seen from the photo's in the link, our bridges are clearly marked with large enough signs. For Road Haulage vehicles, it's understandable that drivers may not have travelled some routes on a regular basis so the potential for damage is high....

..but on regular bus routes?

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Message 1395837 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 11:58:24 UTC

How fast was that bus going?!

I don't understand how this happens, every bus i get on follows a set route, that route having being worked out to not contain bridges or other obstacles. So is this due to maverick drivers going their own way, or do railway companies build bridges really quickly without telling anyone.
Also, i assume bus drivers have to take some form of test before they're allowed to pilot an enormous square vehicle, and how do they forget the size? I've been driving less than a decade but i've never yet tried to get my car down a footpath or into a rabbit hole.
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Message 1395841 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 12:08:28 UTC

Maybe it was on private hire, as bus companies often do. It couldn't have been on a standard route.

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Message 1395850 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 13:08:04 UTC

Or it might be on a route that is normally operated by a single deck bus.
Whatever the reason for the bus being on that road its down to the driver to know the height of his vehicle, and on seeing a restriction that was close to, or less than that (s)he should have contacted his base and requested further instruction, or an alternate route.
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Message 1395863 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 14:57:22 UTC - in response to Message 1395836.

..but on regular bus routes?

Accident, road closed, detour, turn here onto street with low bridge ...

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Message 1395868 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 15:15:02 UTC - in response to Message 1395863.

..but on regular bus routes?

Accident, road closed, detour, turn here onto street with low bridge ...

Now that's being silly Gary. Regular public service or hired out for private functions, they'll be the same drivers & they should know the areas they work in. As for accidents, again he should know his area.
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Message 1395913 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 17:57:25 UTC - in response to Message 1395644.

if this ever takes off, wonder what the accident stats will be?

Back to the Future Part IV

I think there can never be flying cars like in the Jetsons unless someone comes up with a way to steer and stop them at least as effectively as a car on the ground. If flying cars become affordable for the general public, they still start falling out of the sky like those little twirly tree seeds.

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Message 1395945 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 20:41:59 UTC - in response to Message 1395868.
Last modified: 28 Jul 2013, 20:42:22 UTC

..but on regular bus routes?

Accident, road closed, detour, turn here onto street with low bridge ...
Now that's being silly Gary. Regular public service or hired out for private functions, they'll be the same drivers & they should know the areas they work in. As for accidents, again he should know his area.

Really? He may know the routes he takes everyday better than the back of his hand, but how is he going to get the knowledge of other streets? Make unauthorized detours off his route to see where they go? Yes, he might know the names of the streets that parallel his route, and obviously the cross streets, but unless he lives in the area, he may have never driven them. Finally you are required to follow the directions of a police officer who may have no thought of sending a vehicle on an emergency detour unsuitable for it.
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Message 1395953 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 21:24:00 UTC - in response to Message 1395945.

So you're saying your police patrol areas that they're unfamiliar with? That's bad training there for start!
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Message 1395965 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 21:59:12 UTC - in response to Message 1395913.

if this ever takes off, wonder what the accident stats will be?

Back to the Future Part IV

I think there can never be flying cars like in the Jetsons unless someone comes up with a way to steer and stop them at least as effectively as a car on the ground. If flying cars become affordable for the general public, they still start falling out of the sky like those little twirly tree seeds.

And so far the FAA doesn't like the idea of Cars being able to takeoff from a road and it's illegal to land a plane on any highway in CA last I heard, though if there was no other choice they might allow it in an emergency, maybe.
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Message 1395968 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 22:46:49 UTC - in response to Message 1395965.

if this ever takes off, wonder what the accident stats will be?

Back to the Future Part IV

I think there can never be flying cars like in the Jetsons unless someone comes up with a way to steer and stop them at least as effectively as a car on the ground. If flying cars become affordable for the general public, they still start falling out of the sky like those little twirly tree seeds.

And so far the FAA doesn't like the idea of Cars being able to takeoff from a road and it's illegal to land a plane on any highway in CA last I heard, though if there was no other choice they might allow it in an emergency, maybe.


It's true, VB; in an emergency, a plane can land on a CA highway. CHP is trained for this. Once the emergency is declared, the CHP get out there and either clear or block traffic as necessary to make room for the landing plane.


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Message 1395988 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013, 23:41:38 UTC - in response to Message 1395968.

if this ever takes off, wonder what the accident stats will be?

Back to the Future Part IV

I think there can never be flying cars like in the Jetsons unless someone comes up with a way to steer and stop them at least as effectively as a car on the ground. If flying cars become affordable for the general public, they still start falling out of the sky like those little twirly tree seeds.

And so far the FAA doesn't like the idea of Cars being able to takeoff from a road and it's illegal to land a plane on any highway in CA last I heard, though if there was no other choice they might allow it in an emergency, maybe.


It's true, VB; in an emergency, a plane can land on a CA highway. CHP is trained for this. Once the emergency is declared, the CHP get out there and either clear or block traffic as necessary to make room for the landing plane.


Then someone changed the law a while back then, as that's what I heard on the tv news.
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Message 1395995 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 0:11:21 UTC - in response to Message 1395988.

Do you know that it is a crime to commit suicide in Nova Scotia?
The sentence for this crime used to be death if a judge
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Message 1396014 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 1:55:08 UTC - in response to Message 1395953.

So you're saying your police patrol areas that they're unfamiliar with? That's bad training there for start!

Do it all the time. Its called mutual aid. Never mind when a local explorer scout gets saddled with the directing traffic duty because the patrol officers are too busy doing important things.

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Message 1396015 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 2:02:06 UTC - in response to Message 1395988.

if this ever takes off, wonder what the accident stats will be?

Back to the Future Part IV

I think there can never be flying cars like in the Jetsons unless someone comes up with a way to steer and stop them at least as effectively as a car on the ground. If flying cars become affordable for the general public, they still start falling out of the sky like those little twirly tree seeds.

And so far the FAA doesn't like the idea of Cars being able to takeoff from a road and it's illegal to land a plane on any highway in CA last I heard, though if there was no other choice they might allow it in an emergency, maybe.


It's true, VB; in an emergency, a plane can land on a CA highway. CHP is trained for this. Once the emergency is declared, the CHP get out there and either clear or block traffic as necessary to make room for the landing plane.


Then someone changed the law a while back then, as that's what I heard on the tv news.

Under the original Interstate highway plan 1 mile in every 5 was supposed to be straight and without bridges, wires or other stuff crossing so that after the nuke exchange the air force would have some runways.

As to routine operations off roads, no. That is frowned upon. But emergencies are emergencies. Like landing a life flight medical helicopter next to a bad accident.

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