52nd State of the USA


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Profile Bob DeWoody
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Message 1305664 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 2:04:54 UTC

The United States is like the Hotel California, you can check in but you can't check out. It has always amazed me that the Russian states could vote to leave the union but not so here.
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Message 1305729 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 6:41:27 UTC

The history books have all the answers on this one already.
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Message 1305817 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 20:23:56 UTC
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Message 1305821 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 20:29:24 UTC - in response to Message 1305817.

Guy don't international treaties ban the use of hollow point ammo in warfare?
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Message 1305825 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 20:36:47 UTC
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Message 1305830 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 20:48:48 UTC - in response to Message 1305825.

Guy, so it seems that weapons to horrific to use in war are OK to use domestically.
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Message 1305838 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 21:07:38 UTC - in response to Message 1305830.
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Message 1305843 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 21:20:03 UTC - in response to Message 1305838.
Last modified: 13 Nov 2012, 21:23:12 UTC

Guy, so it seems that weapons to horrific to use in war are OK to use domestically.


That's your government that says that, not me.

My now retired Fed friend carried a clip that started with a copper jacket armor piercing round, the rest of the clip was hollow points. They came in boxes marked "for law enforcement use only." Well one day going home from work a 18 wheeler ran over the trunk of his car and some spilled out. When the state highway patrol officers were investigating and helping him pick up the ammo they remarked that the ammo would have been illegal for them to use, never mind a civilian to posses.

<ed>His carry permit, good everywhere in the USA, trusts, territories and possessions, authorized up to and including nukes.

Don't mess with the feds.
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Message 1305853 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 22:07:34 UTC

Texas got the John Hancocks needed today. Don't mess with Texas, they understand hollow points very well!

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Message 1305875 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 22:40:30 UTC

The Geneva convention is too duplicious! It changed the regulations oh high powered rounds like the 7.62mm as used by the majority of NATO forces as it does too much damage to the human body, so we're now using 5.56mm.

I'm just wondering why our GPMG's are still in use with 7.62mm. It's ok for a force weapon to continue but not personal weapons?

The SLR was the best rifle to date the British Army had.
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Message 1305884 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 23:01:19 UTC - in response to Message 1305875.
Last modified: 13 Nov 2012, 23:07:23 UTC

The SLR was the best rifle to date the British Army had.


Definitely NOT.

It was too long and heavy. In 82, some people used 66mm to take out the enemy because the SLR couldn't be used in the close confines found on the hills.

Modified so there was no automatic mode.

Designed to be right hand operated only.

You had to release left hand to cock the weapon, a task on most good weapons done with the same hand as you use for the trigger.

Show me any snippers or special forces that choose it as weapon of choice.

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Message 1305888 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 23:07:03 UTC - in response to Message 1305875.

The Geneva convention is too duplicious! It changed the regulations oh high powered rounds like the 7.62mm as used by the majority of NATO forces as it does too much damage to the human body, so we're now using 5.56mm.

I'm just wondering why our GPMG's are still in use with 7.62mm. It's ok for a force weapon to continue but not personal weapons?

The SLR was the best rifle to date the British Army had.



Hell, there are, and I own, AP rounds in 5.56mm! LOL

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Message 1305890 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 23:11:50 UTC - in response to Message 1305884.

The SLR was the best rifle to date the British Army had.


Definitely NOT.

It was too long and heavy. In 82, some people used 66mm to take out the enemy because the SLR couldn't be used in the close confines found on the hills.

Modified so there was no automatic mode.

Designed to be right hand operated only.

You had to release left hand to cock the weapon, a task on most good weapons done with the same hand as you use for the trigger.

Show me any snippers or special forces that choose it as weapon of choice.


Quite correct, sorry WK, should have said "for it's range". When used as an individual weapon its effective range was 300 metres when used in team mode, its effective range doubled to 600 metres. Street to street fighting, it was too effective Hence the need for a smaller weapon.

As for its weight, I never had an issue with it.
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Message 1305907 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 23:37:09 UTC - in response to Message 1305890.

Quite correct, sorry WK, should have said "for it's range". When used as an individual weapon its effective range was 300 metres when used in team mode, its effective range doubled to 600 metres. Street to street fighting, it was too effective Hence the need for a smaller weapon.

As for its weight, I never had an issue with it.


But the previous personal weapon used by the UK Forces, the Lee Enfield 303, could be used by most experienced users at ranges over 300m quite easily.

I had several 10in groups at 600m with the 303, and struggled to get that at 300m with the SLR.

Didn't worry me much, early in my service, when in infantry mode I was bren user. And later the SLR was not my personal weapon.

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Message 1305908 - Posted: 13 Nov 2012, 23:38:33 UTC - in response to Message 1305907.

Reading back on your other post, I've realised why I never had an issue with the SLR & throughly enjoyed using it - I'm left handed.
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Message 1305916 - Posted: 14 Nov 2012, 0:08:07 UTC - in response to Message 1305908.

Reading back on your other post, I've realised why I never had an issue with the SLR & throughly enjoyed using it - I'm left handed.

Going back to the first para of your original post and the change from 7.62 to 5.56. I'm not sure I like that move. Tests in the early 60's on the Armalite, by Stirlings of SMG fame, showed that to get a get a good knock down you had to increase the muzzle velocity. This didn't always work as the rounds tended not to slow down if they didn't hit bone and cause only minor injuries.

The increase in charge to get the higher velocity also had the effect of unbalancing the round so that it tumbled, reducing the range consuderably, but if it did hit the enemy it caused lots of damage. i.e. sever an arm or leg.

I also want my enemy badly wounded or dead, having to look after slightly injured survivors and provide guards is a waste of manpower.

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Message 1305931 - Posted: 14 Nov 2012, 0:31:05 UTC
Last modified: 14 Nov 2012, 0:31:46 UTC

Going back to the time of the NATO Small Arms trials (1978) before standardising on the 5.56 round. The trial SA80s for the UK was chambered at 4.82 mm, and could deliver 80KJ of energy in to a soldier wearing a flack jacket at 300 metres. A kill shot.

Pity the SA80, then, was operationally crap ...
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Message 1305932 - Posted: 14 Nov 2012, 0:31:17 UTC

muzzle velocity .17 Fun and cheap to shoot. Nice reach...

muzzle velocity 5.56

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Message 1305935 - Posted: 14 Nov 2012, 0:38:15 UTC
Last modified: 14 Nov 2012, 0:39:26 UTC

In the UK the development of the BOZ 0.22"hand gun cartridge, with a patented oversquare shoulder has a muzzle velocity of 4,500 fps and can penetrate the snatch Land Rover's armoured glass.

The force produced by the 0.22 round at 3 feet from the muzzle is 800 fot lbs. A 0.44 magnum at the same distance produces a force of 600 foot lbs.

This is a round for modigied handguns used by the Special Forces.
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Message 1305937 - Posted: 14 Nov 2012, 0:39:42 UTC - in response to Message 1305935.

In the UK the development of the BOZ 0.22"hand gun cartridge, with a patented oversquare shoulder has a muzzle velocity of 4,500 fps and can penetrate the snatch Land Rover's armoured glass.

The force produced by the 0.22 round at 3 feet from the muzzle is 800 fot lbs. A 0.44 magnum at the same distance produces a force of 600 foot lbs.


DAMN! :-)

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