If Noah's ark actually contained two of every animal, plant, bacteria, fungus, it would have been hundreds of miles long. What would all those animals eat? There would have been a huge problem with waste, and we would all be inbred, susceptible to deformities and diseases.

Contemporary theory is suggesting that the Biblical flood is a reference to the flooding of the Mediterranean basin when the Atlantic broke through, but man wasn't supposed to have been there then.

But, wherever Noah was supposed to have been situated, was it likely that he could have collected two of "everything" to put in this wooden ship? He would have needed to have collected animals from all over the globe, and they would have fought with each other as wild animals as well. It has to be a fairy story.

If he was given DNA from many species to look after, well that might be a different thing. We will NEVER know, so continue to speculate, it's all good fun :-)

It was probably the forming of the Black Sea, in about 5,600BC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis

Which puts it recent enough for stories to be told before being written up, greatly changed, as it is in the Bible.

Is it not easy to assume that the Bible is self-teaching (or self-learning), meaning that we try to be able to understand its meaning from the words it is consisting of?

Because some of us are supposed to be religious people, we similarly make religion from what the Bible is supposedly trying to tell us.

Same goes with science. Some fields have an underlying structure where things are known or thought of as widely being accepted or granted.

Isaac Newton's laws are known to be fundamental in physics, but still there were a couple of things that was known to physicists even before his time.

Today, Newton's laws of physics are either replaced or complemented by the laws of relativity. In addition, quantum mechanics theories as well as chaos theories are trying to explain certain things within the field of physics.

The behavior of elementary particles can not be readily explained from a macro-cosmos perspective, only from a micro-cosmos perspective.

The laws dealing with the subject of randomness and chaos are laws on their own.

Newton's laws are dealing only with a couple of things which may appear to be more or less straightforward, even though his third law is a quite complex one.

New laws in physics as well as other places comes from existing knowledge. New theories appear as a result of already known facts and in order to be proven scientifically, these theories become subject to rigorous testing and experimentation.

As an example of this: From a total eclipse of the Sun by the Moon in 1919, it was found that the positions of the background stars compared with the position of the sun had slightly changed. In this way it was proven that gravity bends light, a theory which was postulated by means of Albert Einstein's first theory of relativity of 1905.

If I am not wrong, Albert Einstein's first theory of 1905 was called Einstein's special theory of relativity.

Einstein's follow up theory of 1915-1916 was similarly his general theory of relativity.

Like many Bible stories...

I assume it happened like this:

Some dude named Noah got stuck in a flood. This dude was rich and had a boat. With this boat he saved some of his neighbors and a few animals.

He was such a nice guy that they wrote a story about it.

The story is altered. And altered. And altered. And altered. And, well you get it.


In the end, the stories always become larger than life.


I'm pretty sure Jesus was a cool dude too. But like all the other stories, I think his stories also became larger than life.

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#resist

Still discussing God?

I am somewhat inclined to belive it is somewhat difficult to make a distinction between Moses and Noah.

Anyway, some part of history tells me that Moses was leading his people on a migration from slavery possibly in a country (maybe Egypt) where they were suffering from slavery.

Either they were able to escape, or they became released from their prison.

If history is telling the correct thing, they wanted to cross the Red Sea, something which was impossible to do.

Again, they were supposed to have received help, namely from what we may believe could have been God. Apparently an earthquake occurred, the Red Sea got a dry passage for Moses and his people to cross on dry land.

If for some reason Moses and his people were pursued, their pursuers were just a little late. The incoming water which once more returned to its original position drowned these pursuers with Moses and his people just escaping the enormous water masses from the ocean returning back, possibly by means of a mega tsunami.

Which shows us that history and the Bible seems to go hand in hand.

Gary, that is a very interesting paradox you posit. If it is someone else's thought I still thank you.

I don't remember reading it anywhere, but the mind is the second thing to go.

Actually, your post here, and some other recent posts, quite remind me of the ending of A.C. Clarke's "Rama" quadrology.

As for Blank and Dull's posts, I think Blank hit the nail on the head pretty well, because Dull is the type of guy to ignore the defenses I provide in favor of places where I disagree with him or the community, just so, as Blank says, Dull can create a wound a pour lemon juice on it.

Go for it, Dull, rave about me being a professor. Rave on, while my full reality passes you by, so that we can make assumptions about you, never really knowing your full reality. Because, ultimately, that's how you like it.

[EDIT]Crap. I just agreed with Blank on something, but as he recently said, I don't give him things to agree with me on. In the end, his quote "evidence means nothing to me" rings down the tunnel of time 5 years later.[/EDIT]

Some dude called Noah, at some indeterminate point in history was forewarned some time in advance, some say 2-3 years, by 3rd parties unknown, that a serious flood was going to happen in his neighbourhood. He was apparently given precise instructions on how to build a wooden ship to survive this flood, and what he was supposed to embark as the cargo. The vessels dimensions were to be roughly 450 feet long x 75 feet wide, and 45 feet in height.

Myths

This is a modern 500 foot tanker.



This flood seems to have lasted for ten months and was said to be 22 feet above the tops of mountains. The Ark is supposed to have come to rest on the Mount Ararat range which is in the Armenian plateau with elevations 12-16,000 feet above the current sea level.

Quite amazing really that this dude and his family spent all that time building this ship, from it would seem an inexhaustible supply of timber, nails, and pitch, and access to umpteen animals which were presumably spread all over the world, just upon the say so of this 3rd party, without any proof of a valid reason.

Nah.

There probably was a biblical flood, it may well have been the Black sea rising, or the Med deluge, but not one 16,000 feet deep, and not lasting nearly a year. Where would the excess water have drained off to anyway? Fact has got mixed up with fiction, which has got mixed up with metaphoric statements.

Who said 10 months to a year, Chris?!?
The lines is "40 days and 40 nights ...".
Not that that makes the story true or untrue, either. But I do not recall any version of the story where it stretched 10-12 months.

Who said 10 months to a year, Chris?!?
The lines is "40 days and 40 nights ...".
Not that that makes the story true or untrue, either. But I do not recall any version of the story where it stretched 10-12 months.

Noah and his family were in the ark for about 370 days (by calculations of the author of the source). Below is a breakdown, which might also help answer your question if you were only wanting to know how long the earth was covered with water.

His answer was based on adding these numbers together:

40 --the number of days it rained (Gen 7:17)
110 --the number of days "the waters prevailed on the earth" (Gen 7:24)
73 -the number days the waters "decreased" ( Gen 8:4,5)
40 --assuming "end of forty days" followed the previous 73 days (Gen 8:6)
7 --days waiting for the dove to return
7--days waiting for the second time he sent out the dove
7 --days waiting till he sent out the third dove
29 --days needed to finish out "601 year, 1st month, 1st day" (Gen 8:13)
57 --days needed to finish out "2nd month, 27th day, the earth was dried"
____
370 Days
Then God told them to leave the ark (Gen 8:15,16)

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_did_Noah's_flood_last#ixzz1xANUNkSF

I am not fluent in bible speak, but I think his math is flawed, but mebbe not. I think he counted 40 twice, I don't know. Removing that 40, that's 330 days and that's about 10.5 months...

It could have been a global event, because many civilizations have mythological stories involving floods. What if they were all retellings of an older great flood?

Here is a compilation of flood legends that have a similar ring to the story of Noah.
http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html

Things that make ya go hmmm...?

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I has a MiniCity :)
http://en-ki-du.myminicity.com

Never mind God, do you know there is no reliable scientific archaeology evidence that King David existed.

Never mind God, do you know there is no reliable scientific archaeology evidence that King David existed.

There may be. One never knows when dealing with unravelling mysteries that are thousands of years old with languages no one really speaks, let alone really can understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avraham_Biran
In 1966, Avraham Biran began the project with which he has been most famously identified: the excavations at Tel Dan in northern Israel, where he dug for more than 30 years. The 5,000-year-old "Tel" is a mound formed by layer-upon-layer of remnants from civilizations that once occupied the site.

In the Tel, Biran discovered the largest religious site ever found that dates from the Israelite period. The excavations revealed fragments from the period when the Cannanite settlement of Laish was re-settled by the Israelite tribe of Dan, although this point is based on the Bible and no evidence has proven this. Dating from the earlier period of the patriarchs, Biran excavated an arched gate, as well as a tremendous dirt wall that surrounded the city.

Biran also found artifacts from the period of the Jewish monarchy – the city's defenses, walls and gates as well as the High Places of the Gate mentioned in the Bible. Biran's most important discovery at the Tel was an inscription on a slab of basalt, known as the Tel Dan Stele, that consists of 13 lines in ancient Canaanite script that mention The House of David. Regarding the significance of this inscription Hebrew University archaeologist Professor Amnon Ben-Tor said:[3]

In this inscription, which dates to around 800 BCE, Biran believe that a king from the House of David is mentioned as being struck down in the battle with the Arameans. This is the only extra-Biblical source ever found to date that mentions the existence of the Davidic dynasty and it indeed is an extra-Biblical source that confirms the existence of David as a real historical figure. During the last few years a number of English and Scandinavian researchers have published works suggesting that the kingdoms (and figures) of David and Solomon are literary inventions rather than historical facts.


If anything it adds spice to converstation. What if, what if not.

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I has a MiniCity :)
http://en-ki-du.myminicity.com

There is a big issue with a big global flood. The speed of earth's rotation wold have changed. That is a lot of extra mass of water. That would leave clues.

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I do know about that claim, but as the words were written in a language that does not use vowels, then the word translated as David could also mean Uncle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David#Archaeological_evidence

Also the fortified places that have been claimed to be from the that period, have been found to be very similar to others that are believed to be of Egyptian origin.

As I said, as yet there is no reliable definitive scientific proof of King David.

Remains of John the Baptist

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me@rescam.org

CV?

Now that you're back it becomes somewhat worthwhile replying to your questions. CV is commonly an abbreviation of the Latin curriculum vitæ, "course of life". In the UK it is often used as the name of the document that in the US is referred to as a résumé. HTHs.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Remains of John the Baptist

‘However, the result from the metacarpal hand bone is clearly consistent with someone who lived in the early first century AD. Whether that person is John the Baptist is a question that we cannot yet definitely answer and probably never will.

DNA tests at the University of Copenhagen on three bones confirmed they were from the same person and probably from someone of Middle East origin - where John the Baptist came from.

Not quite as definitive as the name of your link.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

There is a big issue with a big global flood. The speed of earth's rotation wold have changed. That is a lot of extra mass of water. That would leave clues.

Why do you think that the flood was global? The known world was smaller and the population was also alot smaller....

There is a big issue with a big global flood. The speed of earth's rotation wold have changed. That is a lot of extra mass of water. That would leave clues.

Why do you think that the flood was global? The known world was smaller and the population was also alot smaller....

Do you doubt the truth of the Bible?

Genesis:

7:17 The flood continued throughout the earth for 40 days, while the flood waters increased, lifting the ark so that it rose above the surface of the earth.
7:18 The flood waters continued to surge, increasing throughout the earth, while the ark floated on the surface of the flood water.
7:19 The flood water surged even higher throughout the earth, until all the highest mountains under the sky were covered.
7:20 The flood waters rose 22 and a half feet above the mountains.
7:21 Every living thing on earth died—birds, livestock, wildlife, all creatures that swarm over the earth, and all human beings.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

known world...

known world...

Flooding to the point of mountain tops being submerged by 22 feet was localized and God lied about killing every living thing:

Genesis:

7:1 The Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, for I consider you godly among this generation.
7:2 You must take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, the male and its mate, two of every kind of unclean animal, the male and its mate,
7:3 and also seven of every kind of bird in the sky, male and female, to preserve their offspring on the face of the earth.
7:4 For in seven days I will cause it to rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the ground every living thing that I have made.”

Or perhaps, something other than God made the living things outside the known world of the time, so God did not kill them as he did not make them in the first place ...

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

I will wipe from the face of the ground every living thing that I have made.”

Now ask yourself : Why would a benevolent creator do something like that ??

the bible states that it was to wipe away the wickedness of the world. Noah and his family were found to be the only truly good people left on earth.

That being said, God has done similar things to the Hebrews. Like when Moses First went to the Mountain and received the commandments. He destroyed the tablets and god destroyed the idol worshipers.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope