bobby, click on the link I provided in that post.

Or is this discussion pointless?

It's pointless. Neither side is willing to listen to anything.

# shutdown -h now

What from the link (http://htwins.net/scale2/) is absent of any supporting evidence, yet is faithfully held to be true?

[ETA]Oh I see, the "not yet confirmed" sizes of quarks, neutrinos, range of the weak force, and the hypothesized quantum foam and strings. While the size of quarks may not yet be confirmed, there have been several experiments which provide evidence for their existence (CERN being one of the latest), likewise neutrinos, thus their existence is not faithfully held to be true. At the opposite end of the scale you have the estimated size of the universe, an estimate based amongst other thing on its age, and its rate of growth. There have been many evidence based observations that lead scientists to believe they have a good estimate for age and rate of growth.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Faith is hardwired into our Heads. We are born with a conscience. The gean VMAT2 gene I believe is what you seek.

The brain tripled in size and one of the Gifts of this was a conscience, selfawareness. As I believe, as time moved on the Designer has revealed Himself to us in little bits.

The use of red ochre on a body was of no use to hunters and gatherers. Red ochre used on the body was only for the dead. This can be dated back 100,000 years. Bone tools were priceless for the most part to early man and yet this stuff was buried with the dead.

The roots of organized religion started about 10,000 years ago. From hunters to farmers.

What more could you want? Whooooop's there it is! LOL!

... This forum was the first public place I have ever had a chance to express my views at large. I am greatful for that chance.

Steve

I'm with you Steve. As [Blankman] mentioned, the US is a very unfriendly place to proclaim your atheism. Even within my own family, even with the ones that aren't religious, it would still be frowned upon if I were to say "I don't believe in your God"

But it is what it is. It's nice however to be here around open minded people (from both sides of the debate).

Yet another reason that when I came to this hotel I liked it, and haven't left yet.

Best regards to everyone

---

#resist

@guy

you know an awful lot of unix commands. Perhaps you are an AI?

just kidding. :-)

---

#resist

Faith is hardwired into our Heads. We are born with a conscience. The gean VMAT2 gene I believe is what you seek.

The brain tripled in size and one of the Gifts of this was a conscience, selfawareness. As I believe, as time moved on the Designer has revealed Himself to us in little bits.

The use of red ochre on a body was of no use to hunters and gatherers. Red ochre used on the body was only for the dead. This can be dated back 100,000 years. Bone tools were priceless for the most part to early man and yet this stuff was buried with the dead.

The roots of organized religion started about 10,000 years ago. From hunters to farmers.

What more could you want? Whooooop's there it is! LOL!

Your belief that faith is hardwired into us via the vmat2 protein (encoded by the SLC18A2 gene) is not shared by all scientists, nor by all theologians. What does it tell you about your Designer that the same gene is found in rats, chicken, lizards and fish?

Hmm, 34 references to peer reviewed papers on the gene that encodes vmat2, 0 mentioning "God" or "religion" in their title.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

When I was young, I was a Presbyterian. I went to church every Sunday, but I asked questions. The answers I got were completely unsatisfactory, and the church staff really didn't like the questions. I learned to read at age 3, and by the time I got to kindergarten, I was reading at college level. I was hungry for knowledge, and asked thousands of questions. By the time I was 7, I was a full athiest. I even joked that Superman had no airfoils, or system of propultion. I was taught about the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Santa Clause. Once I figured out those weren't real it wasn't much of a stretch to figure out God wasn't real either.

The older I got, the more I learned. I may not be able to conclusively prove there is no God, but in all my years I have not seen a single shred of evidence that there is a God, but mountains of evidence indicating that the universe and eveything in it behaves exactly as it would as if there isn't.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

"bobby" wrote:

Your belief that faith is hardwired into us via the vmat2 protein (encoded by the SLC18A2 gene) is not shared by all scientists, nor by all theologians. What does it tell you about your Designer that the same gene is found in rats, chicken, lizards and fish?

Ummmm, they taste good?

Ummmm, they don't read or write.

Ummmm, their language isn't complicated enough to denote intelligence.

Ummmm, it was held there [in rats, chickens, lizards and fish] by the Designer till our design came along.

Ummmm, and once again they taste good.

Yep, that about does it, they taste good.

...I went to church every Sunday, but I asked questions. The answers I got were completely unsatisfactory, and the church staff really didn't like the questions.

That sounds sooooo familiar. I too was subjected to Sunday school as a child... Hence why I started to doubt things before I ever began to believe. I was kicked out of that same Sunday school after less than two months.

---

#resist

"bobby" wrote:

Your belief that faith is hardwired into us via the vmat2 protein (encoded by the SLC18A2 gene) is not shared by all scientists, nor by all theologians. What does it tell you about your Designer that the same gene is found in rats, chicken, lizards and fish?

Ummmm, they taste good?

Ummmm, they don't read or write.

Ummmm, their language isn't complicated enough to denote intelligence.

Ummmm, it was held there [in rats, chickens, lizards and fish] by the Designer till our design came along.

Ummmm, and once again they taste good.

Yep, that about does it, they taste good.

Seems to me to be quite interesting that another thing shared by these same animals is a badly "designed" eye when compared to a cephalopod's.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

"bobby" wrote:

Your belief that faith is hardwired into us via the vmat2 protein (encoded by the SLC18A2 gene) is not shared by all scientists, nor by all theologians. What does it tell you about your Designer that the same gene is found in rats, chicken, lizards and fish?

Ummmm, they taste good?

Ummmm, they don't read or write.

Ummmm, their language isn't complicated enough to denote intelligence.

Ummmm, it was held there [in rats, chickens, lizards and fish] by the Designer till our design came along.

Ummmm, and once again they taste good.

Yep, that about does it, they taste good.

Goodness, ID you are starting to have a simular tenor to the Dull one.

---

Steve,

You make the strongest case for atheism. Thank you for being cordial.

.

Thank you! All I wanted to do was provide information of what was thought and expected of God and religion, and what results are observed. As I said before, I have many friends who have a great deal of belief, and they will always be friends. I just think that if there is this wonderful and loving God, then where is He, when He is really needed, and if He is letting so many suffer to just get a few prayers, then that just doesn't make sense.

Steve

Edit: First a belief needs to be compared to and judged with itself, before it can be compared and judged to science.

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Infectious isn't it -- sort of like the plague.


[/quote]

Goodness, ID you are starting to have a simular tenor to the Dull one.

[/quote]

Steve-your post has encouraged me to enter my thoughts.

During college I "wandered" religiously over a 1 year spiritual walkabout if you will. I attended multiple different services incl Christian (Episcopal, Catholic, New Wave, American Baptist, Southern Baptist and an African-American church). I also attended Jewish, the local Bahai group's service and joined a friend for his Muslim prayers one evening. I learned something new from each experience and was welcomed by each Faith community.

Yet I felt drawn back to my home church.

Science? No....I think instead a yearning to return to the familiar and comfortable. I now chair a committee and sit on another and feel as strong in my faith as ever.

---

First I was told that I wasn't me but Guy. Then Im being told Im not me but Dull. People, Im me.

I'll thank you for telling me Im a quick study--reckon?

Steve-your post has encouraged me to enter my thoughts.

During college I "wandered" religiously over a 1 year spiritual walkabout if you will. I attended multiple different services incl Christian (Episcopal, Catholic, New Wave, American Baptist, Southern Baptist and an African-American church). I also attended Jewish, the local Bahai group's service and joined a friend for his Muslim prayers one evening. I learned something new from each experience and was welcomed by each Faith community.

Yet I felt drawn back to my home church.

Science? No....I think instead a yearning to return to the familiar and comfortable. I now chair a committee and sit on another and feel as strong in my faith as ever.

May I ask what Church? It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. Mormon?
I've got that inquiring mind thing going on. :-)

First I was told that I wasn't me but Guy. Then Im being told Im not me but Dull. People, Im me.

I'll thank you for telling me Im a quick study--reckon?

ID, I have faith that you are not The Dull One, I said you were starting to have the same sound to me in your message.

---

First I was told that I wasn't me but Guy. Then Im being told Im not me but Dull. People, Im me.

I'll thank you for telling me Im a quick study--reckon?

ID, I have faith that you are not The Dull One, I said you were starting to have the same sound to me in your message.

THANK YOU!

bobby,

I've notice you're not trying to help find any commonly held truths that shape our opinion. How can we learn from each other without first doing this?

You and ID seem intent on telling others that they have faith in things. I have no interest in helping to find any commonly held truths with faith as a basis of them.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

@Steve,

I know you have faith. Perhaps you don't know it. Let me tell you what you have faith in.

You have faith in the scientific method.

I do too.

---