and for reason, i am in seti for a hope that there is intelligent life form somewhere.

Same here. Watch my profile. LOL

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Tomorrow (Saturday) there is a demonstration in London (UK) against the Israeli invasion of Gaza

"1) GAZA: WHY YOU SHOULD DEMONSTRATE

NATIONAL DEMONSTRATION: SATURDAY 10 JANUARY
STOP THE MASSACRE : ISRAEL OUT OF GAZA
ASSEMBLE 12.30PM SPEAKERS CORNER,HYDE PARK
(Nearest tube Marble Arch) Rally & speakers in Hyde park
MARCH TO ISRAELI EMBASSY High St Kensington, London W8

In vetoing a UN resolution calling for a ceasefire, the United
States has given a green light to Israel: keep up your terror
bombing; keep slaughtering civilians with nowhere to hide;
keep starving a population with virtually no access to food;
keep depriving the majority of civilians of electricity, fuel
and clean water.

Keep killing children (close to 300 dead so far); keep
evacuating families from their homes and then bombing the
building to which they are moved; keep denying the Red Cross
access to the injured, like the four young children, too weak
to stand, discovered beside the dead bodies of their mothers;
keep firing tank shells at food aid lorries and killing their
drivers.

Keep denying hospitals in Gaza access to essential medical
supplies; keep killing medical staff and ambulance drivers (20
have died in the past week).

Keep using chemical weapons like phosphorous, which causes the
most horrific injuries and unimaginably painful death.

This is what Israel's prime minister Ehud Olmert meant when he
said Israel would wage "total war" against 1.5 million
defenceless people trapped in a territory only 25 miles long
and 7 miles wide.

With 800 dead already and over 4000 killed, the question is,
"How far will this barbarism go," as Venezuela's president
Hugo Chavez asked, when he expelled the Israeli ambassador
from his country. On Saturday 10 January, tens of thousands
will be on the streets of London -- like millions around the
world - giving the reply to Chavez's question. Not one more
death or injury, this barbarism must stop now.

You can make a difference. Make sure you are on this
demonstration calling for the barbarism to stop and insisting
that Gordon Brown replaces his weasel words - he says he wants
a ceasefire but does nothing to achieve it - with government
action, starting with the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador
to Britain and a total ban on arms sales to Israel.

Join the demonstration and you will also make a difference to
the people of Gaza, suffering from Israel's war crimes and
terror bombing, who feel so utterly abandoned by the
governments of the so-called "international community". This
week we got this simple message from Sameh Habeeb, who lives
in Gaza city, "Please keep campaigning. We need your help and
support. We need people to know what's happening. We are all
terrified."

Join the demonstration, encourage everyone you know to be
there too. This barbarism must stop now."

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I am not supporting Isreal or hamas but before anyone goes to demonstrate he should know the following.

a)Isreal is a small country that has suffered alot both in the past and present, they too deserve to live in peace.

b)Isreal has very hostile countries around it always planning for its destruction and they have been doing so for hundreds of years.

c)Isreal returned some arab land back to palestinians ,but instead of hamas encouraging isreal by being good neighbours they go ahead and bomb it.

d)its very difficult to keep a cool head with people like hamas ,they even couldn't live in peace with anther faction of palestinians.

e)even if isreal did everything that is required of it , hamas will not accept them and will find anther reason to bomb them, thats a fact.

So no one should be confused by these situation but have some sympathy for isreal. A tiger never changes its spots and can't be persuaded to do so no matter how much you try, neither can you persuade it to spare you for a meal.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

I agree except that leopards have spots... tigers have stripes but point taken.

Also lets not forget. The Fatah controlled west bank is not in the same turmoil and the Israelis have pretty much left them alone.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

So no one should be confused by these situation but have some sympathy for isreal.

they have used every sympathy they got years ago, and still they are doing unhuman things to innocent children, sorry but there is no excuse.
as i said week or so ago, they are both as bad and no one of them is more right,
neither israel or palestine.

How is it possible to have sympathy for Israel when it is creating carnage in Gaza? Waging war on the civilian population is in violation of international humanitarian law.

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How is it possible to have sympathy for Israel when it is creating carnage in Gaza? Waging war on the civilian population is in violation of international humanitarian law.

It's not about sympathy.
It's about arms sales in the short term while maintaining Israel as a state so the religious right can have their much anticipated rapture.
WHOOSH---up through the sky.

How is it possible to have sympathy for Israel when it is creating carnage in Gaza? Waging war on the civilian population is in violation of international humanitarian law.

And so is hiding behind/among civilians(Human Shields), We bombed Germany to a pulp during WWII, So much so that It looked more like the surface of the moon than a city area in Germany back then, But that's War, Declared or Not. When You have people shooting at You that are hiding behind or among ordinary civies, Then the place is a legal target, then It's not a War Crime. Hamas doesn't give a crap about International Law Humanitarian or Not, Just the Koran or as they call It GOD's law is what they'll obey and nothing less, But then the Israelis are dealing with Religious Fanatics who use weapons that are only good for Terrorizing people and are a waste of Money as they don't provide any worthwhile results.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Israel says map shows Hamas puts Gaza civilians at risk

Story on CNN.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

How is it possible to have sympathy for Israel when it is creating carnage in Gaza? Waging war on the civilian population is in violation of international humanitarian law.

Agreed.

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With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

Israel says map shows Hamas puts Gaza civilians at risk

Story on CNN.

No, Israel puts Gaza civilians at risk. There are other ways of solving conflict, a start would be to remove the Israeli blockade around Gaza which has been in force since the Hamas won parliamentary elections in the Palestinian territories. This has led to the restriction of food, medicine and other goods UN Report

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How is it possible to have sympathy for Israel when it is creating carnage in Gaza? Waging war on the civilian population is in violation of international humanitarian law.

Israel is not waging war against Civilians in GAZA, But against HAMAS who's using Civilians as a Shield in GAZA, Or is that little fact too hard for Your brain to wrap Itself around?? HAMAS controls the NEWS coming out of GAZA and It has been confirmed that there were some HAMAS Terrorists at that Hospital shooting, HAMAS Terrorists hate all Jews and rule by Force as their Islamists. That's what HAMAS teaches their Children.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Israel says map shows Hamas puts Gaza civilians at risk

Story on CNN.

No, Israel puts Gaza civilians at risk. There are other ways of solving conflict, a start would be to remove the Israeli blockade around Gaza which has been in force since the Hamas won parliamentary elections in the Palestinian territories. This has led to the restriction of food, medicine and other goods UN Report

Look HAMAS is geared for War only, They like to do Suicide Bombings as has been seen in the past, For the last 8 years HAMAS has been launching Rockets and Suicide Bombers when they could and Israel has the right to defend Itself, To say otherwise is to say Israel should die and so should the Jews there as that is a part of HAMAS goal to use any method no matter how long It takes as they are at War and won't stop until all the Jews in Israel are dead as HAMAS religious leader in the past has said.

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/03/israel-is-an-impossibility-it-is-an-offense-against-god/
But I guess You must be in Denial, As Muslims don't Kill Jews. Yeah right.
http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/01/nizar_rayyan_of_hamas_on_gods.php
The Atlantic wrote:

There was no flexibility with Rayyan. This is what he said when I asked him if he could envision a 50-year hudna (or cease-fire) with Israel: "The only reason to have a hudna is to prepare yourself for the final battle. We don't need 50 years to prepare ourselves for the final battle with Israel." There is no chance, he said, that true Islam would ever allow a Jewish state to survive in the Muslim Middle East. "Israel is an impossibility. It is an offense against God."

HAMAS Charter
HAMAS Charter wrote:

The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

Ami Isseroff

"Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is an old forgery was also exported to Germany, where it first appeared in 1919 and was used by the Nazi Regime as a justification for their systematic destruction and looting of all Jewish businesses, the theft of all Jewish property, and the incarceration of all Jews in concentration and extermination camps with the goal of the extermination of the entire race by 1945, in what history now refers to as the Holocaust. But some Muslims will believe anything, But It isn't surprising as they supported the NAZIs during WWII.

If one supports HAMAS today, Then Why aren't You wearing a NAZI armband and swearing loyalty to a Dead Half Jew named Adolf Hitler?

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

How is it possible to have sympathy for Israel when it is creating carnage in Gaza? Waging war on the civilian population is in violation of international humanitarian law.

Israel is not waging war against Civilians in GAZA, But against HAMAS who's using Civilians as a Shield in GAZA, Or is that little fact too hard for Your brain to wrap Itself around?? HAMAS controls the NEWS coming out of GAZA and It has been confirmed that there were some HAMAS Terrorists at that Hospital shooting, HAMAS Terrorists hate all Jews and rule by Force as their Islamists. That's what HAMAS teaches their Children.

Being SuperJoker must just mean you're "Super Dense ".

Attacks will avail You naught.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Surely you can do better than defend butchers of woman and children,
or is this just another convenient explanation for the atrocities
committed in Iraq.

Iraq? You're in the wrong thread Guido.man. Last I looked this is the ISRAEL /PALESTINE thread, You are now OFF TOPIC.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Israel

Area
- Total 20,770 / 22,072 km2
8,019 / 8,522 sq mi

Population
- 2008 estimate 7,282,000
- Density 324/km2
839/sq mi
GDP
- Total $188.936 billion
- Per capita $27,146

-----------------------------------------------------------

GAZA

Area
- Total 360 km2
139 sq mi
Population
- 2007 estimate 1,481,080
- Density 4,118/km2
10,665/sq mi
GDP
- Total $770 million
- Per capita $600

-----------------------------------------------------------

GAZA has more than 10 times the population density of Israel.
At one time Palestinians owned most of that land.
Israelies have engaged in a pogram, to wipeout out the Palestinians,
to marginalize them into non-existence.

If we learn nothing else from history, we should at least remember that,
the sons and daughters, "Pay" for the sins of the "Fathers".
And someone always Pays.
Call it Karma.
I prefer Quantum Bookkeeping.

Ya'll have yourself a nice day eh!

of course there are women and children moxed up with hamas, but would it be cause they don´t have more land where they could spread around so their neighbour would not be assumed hamas terrorist, and by record any one killed is
for israel hamas terrorist, even one year old child.
in this war(like any) there is no right side.

Islam is an ideallogy much like white supremacy. Because of the teachings of hatred it should not be given the same protections as other religions. It and its followers should be look upon with disgust. Please recall in Judsism how prostitutes, their johns and especially homosexuals were stoned to death. No one has been excuted in modern Iseral for these actions or lifestyles. Iran reciently executed a homosexual. Judsism has adapted to the modern world. Islam has not. It is no more reasonible to believe a Muslim who claims not to agree with the hatred in Islam than to believe a KKK clansman who claims not to hate blacks. I am not attempting to support Isreal, but rather to question the choices of the Palestinian people who choose to be Muslim and allow Hamas to atatack Isreal.

Islam is an ideology much like white supremacy. Because of the teachings of hatred it should not be given the same protections as other religions. It and its followers should be look upon with disgust. Please recall in Judaism how prostitutes, their johns and especially homosexuals were stoned to death. No one has been executed in modern Israel for these actions or lifestyles. Iran recently executed a homosexual. Judaism has adapted to the modern world. Islam has not. It is no more reasonable to believe a Muslim who claims not to agree with the hatred in Islam than to believe a KKK clansman who claims not to hate blacks. I am not attempting to support Israel, but rather to question the choices of the Palestinian people who choose to be Muslim and allow Hamas to attack Israel.

Of course No Muslim would ever question the word of another Muslim, To do so would be marking oneself as an apostate(Death Sentence).

Thankfully Christopher Columbus is/was Catholic and not a Muslim.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Thankfully Christopher Columbus is/was Catholic and not a Muslim.

I think you have inadvertantly opened the wrong door in your search for evidence to back your claims.

Columbus, and his crimes against humanity are very well documented.
Were he alive today, he'd be standing before the World Court facing charges for his part in these crimes.

The indigenous peoples of the New World were raped, enslaved and murdered for sport by this good follower of Christ.
His own log books contain vast amounts of evidence to his crimes.

He's not the man we all read about in our school books.
His legacy is one of death, destruction and great anguish to every person he encountered in his travels.

While driving through Nevada, USA my father had the idea that Nevada is so desolate and empty that it could be a new home for the state of Israel. Of course that is not likely to happen. The conflict is mostly one of land. It was a bad idea to kick one people out and bring in another people into that area after the war. What were world leaders thinking back then? If someone moved onto my land and told me to get out I think I would also fight them anyway I could. The only workable solution would be for one to leave or die.