The SETI Forum diversification - CLOSED

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Profile Es99
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Message 652442 - Posted: 1 Oct 2007, 19:03:58 UTC - in response to Message 652425.  

Here you would actually have to make an argument as well. I'm not under any "delusion" because you said so. To demonstrate that, you would have to present reasoning, something that you fail to do, even here.

Why should I? Because you sez so?

In short, your position seemed to consist of nothing more than repeating the manta that the world is warming and that we're all going to die. My position, in brief, was that even if that were true, nothing proposed so far could ever hope to even slow it down, let alone stop it. For that reason, spending billions on wasted efforts like Kyoto was a complete waste of resources that were better spent elsewhere.

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

What could have possibly even given you the idea that I could care less what the collective thinks? Do you lose sleep because many here perceive your posts as intentionally irritating and genuinely sexist? If you don't, you can understand why I don't.

I wasn't aware that many did think I was intentionally irritating and genuinely sexist. Should I feel honoured that you bother to talk to someone you consider intentionally irritating and genuinely sexist?
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Message 652444 - Posted: 1 Oct 2007, 19:06:01 UTC - in response to Message 652425.  
Last modified: 1 Oct 2007, 19:08:32 UTC

Do you lose sleep because many here perceive your posts as intentionally irritating and genuinely sexist?

You would need to provide evidence of that. (Turnabout is fair play and I will be able to spot attempts to weasel out of it.)
The mods and your teammate R/B do not count.
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Message 652460 - Posted: 1 Oct 2007, 20:10:13 UTC




"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

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Message 652475 - Posted: 1 Oct 2007, 20:53:05 UTC
Last modified: 1 Oct 2007, 21:02:11 UTC

Unlike common life cycle of a thread to reach to this stage (of nearly 200 posts and over 1000 views) within week, this thread has already matured within 30hrs probably its death cycle would begin by this weekend. Hope the initial message could ring some bell to admins and mods and for some aggressive dreaming chance Eric Corpella might read this thread too.

Thanks, to all thread fabricators.
Mandtugai!
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Message 652522 - Posted: 1 Oct 2007, 22:40:37 UTC - in response to Message 652442.  

Here you would actually have to make an argument as well. I'm not under any "delusion" because you said so. To demonstrate that, you would have to present reasoning, something that you fail to do, even here.

Why should I? Because you sez so?

No, because it's the best way to convince your readers that your position is more than just empty rhetoric. You are welcome to disagree if you wish.

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

Could be. That happens. It's rare, but I make mistakes.

I wasn't aware that many did think I was intentionally irritating and genuinely sexist.

These things happen.

Should I feel honoured that you bother to talk to someone you consider intentionally irritating and genuinely sexist?

Of course not, I don't consider you either.
Cordially,
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Message 652678 - Posted: 2 Oct 2007, 4:16:37 UTC - in response to Message 652460.  





Pass me some of that please.....lol

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from silent stone,
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Message 652700 - Posted: 2 Oct 2007, 5:11:01 UTC

Diversification might improve, if the racial hatred eased. IMHO.
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Message 652810 - Posted: 2 Oct 2007, 12:54:19 UTC - in response to Message 652678.  





Pass me some of that please.....lol





This is better than any soap opera, first they then they and then they again. :-D


You're doing great, Rush, grovel, grovel... ;-D


"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

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Message 652815 - Posted: 2 Oct 2007, 13:24:02 UTC - in response to Message 652700.  

Diversification might improve, if the racial hatred eased. IMHO.

I agree. I have noticed a lot of racial hatred here over time...and especially against those of the Islamic faith.

Not being religious myself I have little nice to say about any faith...but I still to not like to see posters treated unfairly just because of their particular faith.
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Message 652894 - Posted: 2 Oct 2007, 16:25:10 UTC - in response to Message 652475.  

Unlike common life cycle of a thread to reach to this stage (of nearly 200 posts and over 1000 views) within week, this thread has already matured within 30hrs probably its death cycle would begin by this weekend. Hope the initial message could ring some bell to admins and mods and for some aggressive dreaming chance Eric Corpella might read this thread too.

Thanks, to all thread fabricators.


As a Moderator, I make the same arguments I've made in this thread. It isn't the Moderator's job to do what you are asking, nor do I feel it is any participant's authority to create new responsibilities for Moderators unless it actually has to do with upholding the rules.
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Message 652900 - Posted: 2 Oct 2007, 21:01:45 UTC
Last modified: 2 Oct 2007, 21:24:52 UTC

Maybe mods are not the main roles in this issue the Seti institute supposedly to follow the policy of supporting multicultural forum. And you would enforce that policy, since we have an "international" project.

Everyone heard that the project has No1 problem of funding, but my intention is to reprocess the Forum into multicultural mode and I hope it should not hurt the tight budget.
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Message 652935 - Posted: 2 Oct 2007, 21:50:21 UTC - in response to Message 652900.  

Maybe mods are not the main roles in this issue the Seti institute supposedly to follow the policy of supporting multicultural forum. And you would enforce that policy, since we have an "international" project.


A good objective that will not be implemented for cultural reasons, and for the shear weight and international dominance of English.

I tried to prove the point with my Home Rule for Wales thread. A number of my colleagues posted there, but no one outside that posted.

There are many who post in the fora whose main language is not English, and yet they post in my language better than I can in their own.

Personally I find your ambition to open the threads to people with other languages idealistic.

It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 653021 - Posted: 2 Oct 2007, 22:56:10 UTC - in response to Message 652900.  

Maybe mods are not the main roles in this issue the Seti institute supposedly to follow the policy of supporting multicultural forum. And you would enforce that policy, since we have an "international" project.


A multicultural forum should not be a rule. It should be a choice. No form of forum legislation should dictate what percentage of posts should be of a different language.
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Message 653044 - Posted: 2 Oct 2007, 23:26:17 UTC - in response to Message 652900.  

Maybe mods are not the main roles in this issue the Seti institute supposedly to follow the policy of supporting multicultural forum. And you would enforce that policy, since we have an "international" project.

Everyone heard that the project has No1 problem of funding, but my intention is to reprocess the Forum into multicultural mode and I hope it should not hurt the tight budget.


Orgil ... while I do not agree with the way some have responded to you (and to cRunchy) ... it has been stated simply: it is not the administration's responsibility to make the forum multicultural. Nor is it the responsibility of the mods. Besides, some mods say "Be careful what you wish for; you might just get it ... and more."

What the administration cares about, and rightfully so, is having many people crunch for the project.

I have said it time and time and time again: these forums are merely hosted by the project and can only be posted on by people who are participating or did participate and have enough RAC remaining to keep posting for a while; beyond that, the project and the forums are separate, except that there can be public relations problems.

You are already a volunteer, Orgil, by crunching for the project. You can volunteer to get a wider range of people in the world crunching for the project, first of all, followed by getting those people involved in what become a more diverse forum.

(As it says at http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/moderation.php,
We aren't a social engineering project nor are we in the business of creating a perfectly fair system.


While some things evolve, I am willing to bet the stance of the project administrators regarding this one issue will not change.)

I am sorry this point keeps getting lost. OzzFan said it; Knightmare said something similar and provided another option. Unfortunately, OzzFan did not keep to the topic and his main, most important point, was lost. The posts of many others, and a small number of my own, contributed to the loss of the point.
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Message 653181 - Posted: 3 Oct 2007, 3:26:55 UTC - in response to Message 652242.  


I felt bad for you as well. I had hoped that just once you would present an argument instead of statements of your opinion and belief, but no, that was not to occur. 8^]

I presented many arguments to support my position..including facts to back them up. I think you were perhaps confused by the way I phrased it. Possible in the usual feminine way of prefixing a statements with 'I think' or 'perhaps it is that'. That would be your bias as to what makes a 'proper' discussion and no way reflects on any points I did and have made. You and I will differ on one fundamental assertion. I do not believe that any opinion can be objective and I will frame my discussions with this in mind. You however are under the apparent delusion that the human mind can be 'objective' and that there is an 'objective' reality to present arguments about.

So your attempts to set the agenda and the style of debate were actually perceived as hostile by many..and in my opinion (again the feminine disclaimer)were sheer arrogance. :)


Egoism...(self worth==does not equal genders/race/age..or anything else. On;ly bigots support that lie. Why do this?

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Message 653193 - Posted: 3 Oct 2007, 3:40:28 UTC

Whenever the 'cloud' of gender/race/origin of birth/skin color/ whatever gets bandied about it's usually a sign that someone has an agenda.

They've got an agenda for 'womens rights' or 'white rights' or 'black rights' or whoever....


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Message 653197 - Posted: 3 Oct 2007, 3:46:29 UTC
Last modified: 3 Oct 2007, 3:56:34 UTC

The only thing we are touching or sensing the project is the statistics. And this thing strongly tells us that there is some serious cooperation between 247 countries. Americans manage to understand that people from europe, asia and africa Perfectly supporting their initiation and from those corners of the world people understood that from every corner of the world some reps are participating.

All my idea ground is based only on Statistics, it is not personal feeling but anybogy who feel the daily Seti statistics would easily supposed to feel it as a kind of thing that tells Seti Biology structure.

The participating countries who has more than 10 000 members usually loss the National identity and cultural identity factors on the project and especially in the the Seti Forum that represents Project Culture. Because their all kinds of own way of ideas already can be told in the forum or they have enough quyantity of voices.

But on the opposite hand participating countries/cultures who has less than 1000 members easily feel that the forum is hugely dominated with "10 000 or more kinds" and minority voice is kind of willing to be ignored in the Forum structure. That is how Daily less than 10 countries thing occur with the Forum.

Mandtugai!
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Message 653205 - Posted: 3 Oct 2007, 3:57:33 UTC - in response to Message 653197.  
Last modified: 3 Oct 2007, 4:09:27 UTC

All my idea ground is based only on Statistics, it is not personal feeling but anybogy who feel the daily Seti statistics would easily supposed to feel it as a kind of thing that tells Seti Biology structure.


Ever hear the phrase: "there are lies, damn lies and statistics"? Don't put too much into statistics. They can be interpreted any way one wishes if they're good enough at doing so.

But on the opposite hand participating countries/cultures who has less than 1000 members easily feel that the forum is hugely dominated with "10 000 or more kinds" and minority voice is kind of willing to be ignored in the Forum structure.


Sounds like this is an insecurity issue that needs to be dealt with on the individual level, not at an administration level. If they don't feel like their voice is heard, then they need to speak up. Catering to them simply because there is less of them isn't the real solution to the problem. People shouldn't require any sort of "hand holding" and that certainly isn't what Moderators or Administrators are here for.

If they're too scared to speak up (and this is only speculation, there's no proof that any sizable portion of this minority is indeed afraid to post), then it's something they have to get over on their own by simply just doing it. By having enough confidence in themselves to be able to do it and by being thick-skinned enough to put up with all the other BS just like the English speaking group needs to. There should be no special treatment just because one is a minority.


The only area where I would agree with you is if there was an actual hostility (not a perceived hostility where it could very well exist within one's head). Then it would be up to the Mods and, failing that, the Admins to step in and keep the peace. Not having enough languages other than English cannot be defined as one such actual hostility. But it is absolutely not up to the Mods to coax people to post in other languages.
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Message 653220 - Posted: 3 Oct 2007, 4:34:05 UTC - in response to Message 653208.  
Last modified: 3 Oct 2007, 5:23:16 UTC


Yet what about all the other BOINC projects? Is only SETI the only one lacking more non-English speaking posters or is this issue completely BOINC wide? There are many projects with single specific non-English forums. SIMAP, SZTAKI, QMC, RCN, Spinhenge, Chess960, Sudoku. This does not mean that they are insensitive or prohibitive of other international languages. You will find that this is a BOINC wide issue and nothing specific to SETI@home.


Because Seti is biggest dc project and if you compare, Seti Forum is kind of most alive Forum that is why I am talking on this forum.

====================


Ever hear the phrase: "there are lies, damn lies and statistics"? Don't put too much into statistics. They can be interpreted any way one wishes if they're good enough at doing so.


Whatever stat lies we understand that pretty much every world corner is represented in true way or in some inaccurate way.




Sounds like this is an insecurity issue that needs to be dealt with on the individual level, not at an administration level. If they don't feel like their voice is heard, then they need to speak up. Catering to them simply because there is less of them isn't the real solution to the problem. People shouldn't require any sort of "hand holding" and that certainly isn't what Moderators or Administrators are here for.


Because you are yourself belonging to the subject country who has 220 000 members it is clear that you are simply protecting the majority Dominance Effects. (that is not healthy ethics for Seti ethical ground)




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Message 653231 - Posted: 3 Oct 2007, 4:54:14 UTC

I will greatly appreciate for real posting not a Thread Fabrication.

Thanks.

Mandtugai!
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