It seems that my thread on gun ownership has spawned a lot of posting. Most constructive and on the topic, a few not so.

But I thought I would stick me neck out and ask what the rest of you think about the illegal immigration problem in the US (mostly from Mexico).

Now......
Let me make my stance on the issue crystal clear.
Send them back.
Send them all back.
Do not pass GO, do not collect sh*t.
Go back where you came from and do not turn around.

OK...having said that, further clarification......
I am not a bigot, racist, or any manner of ill-mannered individual. But I AM a US CITIZEN, and am tired of hearing about how the illegals think they have a RIGHT to come here and do as they please, and pimp the US for social services that our (expletive deleted) government seems all too ready to provide.

English as a second language?? Bullsh*t!!!
If you can't speak the language, go someplace where they can, or learn ours.

Want a better life?? Sh*t, yea, don't we all. But if I cross over the border into Mexico looking for it (not likely), I don't think I would be free to be roaming around looking for work and tequila. I would be jailed pronto. As any illegal here should be.

My Grandparents on my father's side came here directly from Germany, and Grandpa used to tell us about the things they had to do just to be admitted into this country. They were not at all given carte blanche, much less being allowed to roam as they pleased or given social services just because they happened to show up at the doorstep. It was difficult.

I am asking for rational opinions on the subject, although as touchy as the subject is, I am not sure how sane this thread will stay. Let's try to express our opinions in a civil manner, eh?

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

The US has a problem with illegals, so so does Europe (and in particular the UK).

Same issues, different country.

In the UK it is not the fact of illegals, it is the rate they are being let in (compared the size of the population) and the short timescale this is happening over.

I think Australia has the right attitude and implementation. The influx of boat people has slowed to a trickle!

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

As in my gun thread, I would like to hold this to the problem in the USA, where I live, although I understand some similar problems make be occuring in other locals. I do not think they mirror quite what is happening here, with the ready access of the Mexican border, the aquiescence of the current power structure, and the lame-headedness of our current batch of politicians.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I think you may be underestimating the impact compared to the US (probably not to the southern States).

The official estimates of illegals to population growth is to raise the population of the UK by 10% over the next 12 years.

This would be the same as 30 million illegals coming in to the US over the same time!

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

I think you may be underestimating the impact compared to the US (probably not to the southern States).

The official estimates of illegals to population growth is to raise the population of the UK by 10% over the next 12 years.

This would be the same as 30 million illegals coming in to the US over the same time!

I think they are already here.......will look for stats.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Am I the only one who gets a little PO'ed when I need to "Press 1 for English"?

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Boinc Button Abuser In Training >My Shrubbers<

Am I the only one who gets a little PO'ed when I need to "Press 1 for English"?

Not at all....one of my pet peeves.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Am I the only one who gets a little PO'ed when I need to "Press 1 for English"?

Would you rather have them present the question in Spanish?

Anyway, why doesn't anybody ever seem to get PO'ed about having to listen to twenty silly questions and press twenty buttons just to get an operator who will no doubt ask you the same twenty silly questions that you have just answered... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Am I the only one who gets a little PO'ed when I need to "Press 1 for English"?

Would you rather have them present the question in Spanish?

Why should they present the question in bloody Spanish when the language of this country is English??

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Am I the only one who gets a little PO'ed when I need to "Press 1 for English"?

Would you rather have them present the question in Spanish?

Why should they present the question in bloody Spanish when the language of this country is English??

Not if some far right wing nut-cases get their way!

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Boinc Button Abuser In Training >My Shrubbers<

Am I the only one who gets a little PO'ed when I need to "Press 1 for English"?

Would you rather have them present the question in Spanish?

Why should they present the question in bloody Spanish when the language of this country is English??

Not if some far right wing nut-cases get their way!

Refer to my first post regarding our (expletive deleted) government.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

the language of this country is English??

It is? The America I used to know welcomed diversity...

As of late, I'm quite ashamed to be called an American... And the worst part is, most Americans don't even see how ugly they've become... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

What about those who were taken into the USA by a company who could not get the staff locally, as nobody wanted to do - let's say Coast To Coast trucking.
The "illegal" was brought over into a college, where he passed all tests with honours.
Started working on a temporary visa, but got taken to the cleaners by his employers who wanted to pay well below going rate as he's illegal.
Since then in the last 7 years, he has paid all his taxes on the nose, never once ponced off your system but instead delivered items the length & breadth of your country because none of your countrymen wanted to do the f***ing job.
All that has happened is that he has been screwed bby several lawyers, who all take the money & all do nothing.

Land of the free?
Yeah, right. As long as you're not bloody British. You lot still seem to hate us brits.
Why?

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Am I the only one who gets a little PO'ed when I need to "Press 1 for English"?

Would you rather have them present the question in Spanish?

Why should they present the question in bloody Spanish when the language of this country is English??

Hmm... When I've been to New York City, the language seemed to be: Polish, Chinese, English, Spanish, French and even German and Russian - in this order.
In Pennsylvania it's Amish Dutch and English - in this order. In other areas it's the language of the certain American Indians which is the main language - even French ...
I have been in only a few towns where only one language was spoken, in only a few areas which had not been immigration areas for at least one century...
AFAIK, English is just the official language of the USA, the language everybody has to at least understand. But since the USA has been an immigration country since before it's foundation, why should they not ask you to "press 1 for English" when they know that there is at least a minority in your county who speaks another language as first language? Such things are only for the comfort of all their customers. If you traveled to Germany you would be glad to have such service.

But to get back to topic: I think that illegal immigration is wrong. I would accept persons who seek asylum, war-refugees, and some other exceptions - but these had to go thru the normal immigration procedure asap...
But I do think that to prevent illegal immigration from Mexico, it's not enough to reinforce the border, but to improve the living situations of your direct neighbors could be a better alternative for your gov't - since they already have some decades' of experience in setting up and removing foreign governments anyway.

I once (in 1991) met a US citizen who told me that he earned a fortune smuggling GDR citizens to West Germany. When I asked him if he would give Mexicans the same kind of help to get to USA, since also this means bringing people from a poorer country into a richer country, he became provoking - he thought smuggling humans were different depending on the "where from" and "where to". But I do know that many people actually do smuggle people from Mexico to USA - and back, just to supply farmers and other entrepreneurs with cheap workers.

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Account frozen...

I think you may be underestimating the impact compared to the US (probably not to the southern States).

The official estimates of illegals to population growth is to raise the population of the UK by 10% over the next 12 years.

This would be the same as 30 million illegals coming in to the US over the same time!

I think a large number come from FSU states, right? My friend in Latvia has mentioned that a lot of people there desire to go to the UK...

It seems that my thread on gun ownership has spawned a lot of posting. Most constructive and on the topic, a few not so.

But I thought I would stick me neck out and ask what the rest of you think about the illegal immigration problem in the US (mostly from Mexico).

Now......
Let me make my stance on the issue crystal clear.
Send them back.
Send them all back.
Do not pass GO, do not collect sh*t.
Go back where you came from and do not turn around.

OK...having said that, further clarification......
I am not a bigot, racist, or any manner of ill-mannered individual. But I AM a US CITIZEN, and am tired of hearing about how the illegals think they have a RIGHT to come here and do as they please, and pimp the US for social services that our (expletive deleted) government seems all too ready to provide.

English as a second language?? Bullsh*t!!!
If you can't speak the language, go someplace where they can, or learn ours.

Want a better life?? Sh*t, yea, don't we all. But if I cross over the border into Mexico looking for it (not likely), I don't think I would be free to be roaming around looking for work and tequila. I would be jailed pronto. As any illegal here should be.

My Grandparents on my father's side came here directly from Germany, and Grandpa used to tell us about the things they had to do just to be admitted into this country. They were not at all given carte blanche, much less being allowed to roam as they pleased or given social services just because they happened to show up at the doorstep. It was difficult.

I am asking for rational opinions on the subject, although as touchy as the subject is, I am not sure how sane this thread will stay. Let's try to express our opinions in a civil manner, eh?

hmmm... This sounds like a repeat, (almost word for word), of a post I made on this subject in an old Thread that has long since faded off the front page(s) of this Forum...

Great Grandpa K. came over from Austria in 1908 on a "work sponsorship". He was a Barber's Apprentice in Chicago. Eventually; he opened his own Barber Shop. However; his solo flight/endeavor did not come easily, at all... He and Great Grandma, (Nana), both had to struggle to learn and master English. They still spoke German at home; however, to be productive and part of the American Society at large, they "HAD TO" speak fluent English. They taught Grandpa to speak English FIRST, then German.

My Dad never learned German; however, when I was in 7Th Grade taking a Foreign Language was mandatory. I knew I definitely did NOT want to take French, Spanish wasn't offered, (Illinois school, 1979), so I took German. My hope then was to become fluent enough to speak with Grandpa, Grandma, Nana, and Papa in their Native Language.

Now, on the topic at hand; Illegal Immigration, I too am Non-Racist. However; I support hard work and logical thinking. Why is it deemed to be logical now to let these Illegals walk all over us? It shouldn't be allowed to happen! If they want in, then they have to work for it the way my Great Grandpa did. Do it legally, or not at all.

Why should these Illegals even think that they are entitled to Social Security Retirement; when in fact, they most definitely are NOT! If you don't have a legal Social Security Card, Green Card, or whatever else is needed nowadays to obtain legal work where one is taxed and pays into the system then how can one even think they are "entitled" to the same benefits I, (or any other LEGAL US Citizen), is entitled to???!!!???

So, without expanding this any further - Mark, I support your thinking and post 100%!!! Send them all back. When they finally wish to do things legally and get processed through INS completely legally like our Grandparents and Great Grandparents, then let them come back in that way, and that way only.


Sincerely,

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

Am I the only one who gets a little PO'ed when I need to "Press 1 for English"?

Nope; I'm with you there, too... Learn English, speak English in public, speak your Native Language at home. By all means, keep and respect the culture you came from; however, likewise, respect the culture of the place that you deem to have a higher value of living and working in... That is, if this land is still deemed to be the "Land of Milk and Honey", (or a "Melting Pot" as defined when I was growing up and taught in school), then English is the language necessary and required for one to make their living herein. Speak your Native Language only at home.


Sincerely,

---

TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

Am I the only one who gets a little PO'ed when I need to "Press 1 for English"?

Would you rather have them present the question in Spanish?

Why should they present the question in bloody Spanish when the language of this country is English??

Hmm... When I've been to New York City, the language seemed to be: Polish, Chinese, English, Spanish, French and even German and Russian - in this order.
In Pennsylvania it's Amish Dutch and English - in this order. In other areas it's the language of the certain American Indians which is the main language - even French ...
I have been in only a few towns where only one language was spoken, in only a few areas which had not been immigration areas for at least one century...
AFAIK, English is just the official language of the USA, the language everybody has to at least understand. But since the USA has been an immigration country since before it's foundation, why should they not ask you to "press 1 for English" when they know that there is at least a minority in your county who speaks another language as first language? Such things are only for the comfort of all their customers. If you traveled to Germany you would be glad to have such service.

But to get back to topic: I think that illegal immigration is wrong. I would accept persons who seek asylum, war-refugees, and some other exceptions - but these had to go thru the normal immigration procedure asap...
But I do think that to prevent illegal immigration from Mexico, it's not enough to reinforce the border, but to improve the living situations of your direct neighbors could be a better alternative for your gov't - since they already have some decades' of experience in setting up and removing foreign governments anyway.

I once (in 1991) met a US citizen who told me that he earned a fortune smuggling GDR citizens to West Germany. When I asked him if he would give Mexicans the same kind of help to get to USA, since also this means bringing people from a poorer country into a richer country, he became provoking - he thought smuggling humans were different depending on the "where from" and "where to". But I do know that many people actually do smuggle people from Mexico to USA - and back, just to supply farmers and other entrepreneurs with cheap workers.

Actually; if I traveled to Germany, I would expect to have to speak, (or struggle to speak), German - no matter how badly/poorly my German came out - I should at least make the attempt. Same for any other country I would contemplate traveling into. Thus; if I were to travel to Mexico, I would pick up an English to Spanish Dictionary, and buy a Software Program to instruct me in conversational Spanish. I would then study the language far prior to my scheduled trip. Why shouldn't the reverse hold true; especially when they want to immigrate here???!!!??? English is our official language, learn it, deal with it, even if it is just struggling with it, show the respect that is due!


Sincerely,

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

Land of the free?
Yeah, right. As long as you're not bloody British. You lot still seem to hate us brits.
Why?

I personally would be very kind to Billie Piper... :) Michelle Marsh would also be treated kindly ;-)

Anyway, the way you typed that reminded me of the opening part of V for Vendetta, Prothero's opening monologue about the United States...

The real problem in what you mentioned is just typical corporate greed that has come about, and it is not isolated to H-1B holders, as I was "let go" for a few reasons, one of which I strongly believe was because of H-1B and outsourcing. I will agree though that there is a constant presense of CDL driver ads in the local paper...

While everyone is on the subject...what about anchor babies.

These women jump our borders 8 1/2 months pregnant, go in labor in
the United States, use our hospitals without a penny in there pockets,
dump their kid out, and the little b..... gets automatic citizenship.

...and they call them "anchor babies." Their birth certificates should have
a big red stamp across them...FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES ONLY, NOT A CITIZEN
OF THE UNITED STATES.

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Account frozen...