What does the community think? Is it a good idea or bad?

I find it to be good - so long as there are some restrictions on what the companies can exploit. I don't see there being any huge problems with what they might like to do on our moon; it would be mining of a few ores, anyway.

There has however been the suggestion that private companies will start to colonize Mars long before NASA will. It seems to me that Mars, as a dead-end planet, SHOULD be terraformed as much as possible. Martian microbes or even Lichens would of course be preserved in a simulated environment, but we need that planet. We have to spread out our bets. All human life is stuck on one planet for now, and that's a recipe for disaster.

It seems to me that even before we get to Mars, we should have a fully autonomous space station up and running. How hard would it have been to make a station with a small rotating cuff to simulate gravity? Good place for a hydroponics bay.

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

What does the community think? Is it a good idea or bad?

I find it to be good - so long as there are some restrictions on what the companies can exploit.

Have you seen the movei ALIEN?

If so, can you remember what the 'company' wanted to do?....LOL...

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Belief gets in the way of learning

What does the community think? Is it a good idea or bad?

I find it to be good - so long as there are some restrictions on what the companies can exploit. I don't see there being any huge problems with what they might like to do on our moon; it would be mining of a few ores, anyway.

There has however been the suggestion that private companies will start to colonize Mars long before NASA will. It seems to me that Mars, as a dead-end planet, SHOULD be terraformed as much as possible. Martian microbes or even Lichens would of course be preserved in a simulated environment, but we need that planet. We have to spread out our bets. All human life is stuck on one planet for now, and that's a recipe for disaster.

It seems to me that even before we get to Mars, we should have a fully autonomous space station up and running. How hard would it have been to make a station with a small rotating cuff to simulate gravity? Good place for a hydroponics bay.

Totally agree.....can't agree with you more. Let's grow the species and spread out. It's not a question of 'if' it's a question of 'when'.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Human spaceflight goes commercial

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TEAM
LL

Ya, Enigma, but I highly doubt we'll find alien eggs on mars or the moon! You've helped establish some guidelines anyway.

1) NO COMPANY WHATSOEVER may hide or conceal evidence of ET life. This belongs to the world, not to the company discovering it to profit from it.
No company may transport said evidence back to Earth without express permission form the U.N. Even then, it should be brought to the space station only.

2) The same should be true for minerals or ores that have not been processed.

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

As long as space exploration is not turned over entirely to private companies it is OK.
The problem with complete privatization is that further exploration would depend entirely on the profits to be had.

A government run program, although it may not be as economically efficient as a private one, doesn't necessarily expect profits and so is freer to pursue pure science and exploration.

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There are three basic types, Mr. Pizer, the wills, the won'ts, and the can'ts. The wills accomplish everything, the won'ts oppose everything, and the can'ts won't try anything.

Ya, Enigma, but I highly doubt we'll find alien eggs on mars or the moon! You've helped establish some guidelines anyway.

1) NO COMPANY WHATSOEVER may hide or conceal evidence of ET life. This belongs to the world, not to the company discovering it to profit from it.
No company may transport said evidence back to Earth without express permission form the U.N. Even then, it should be brought to the space station only.

2) The same should be true for minerals or ores that have not been processed.

This sounds logical except for the UN part. Nothing in the history of the UN shows that it is capable of handling anything with even a hint of contraversy to it.

How does the world deal with potentially world-ending scientific research now? I recall an experiment that was to reproduce stange matter, and the scientist interviewed said they were reasonably sure it wouldn't destroy the world... but not certain.

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

If the U.N., as a presumably impartial body doesn't set guidelines, who will?
The US? We've already seen that the U.$. gov't is more interested in profit than in justice and protecting the planet.

That's the evil of having private companies. Double-edged sword. You get good and fast research for profit, and you get the rulebook thrown out the window by the politicians in your pocket - for profit.

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

If the U.N., as a presumably impartial body doesn't set guidelines, who will?

Protocols exist for potentially irreversible contamination. They may need to be updated once the particulars of the alien life are known, but whatever rules exist now have managed to keep us from releasing hypertoxic chemicals into the groundwater and unstoppable diseases into the air.

The US? We've already seen that the U.$. gov't is more interested in profit than in justice and protecting the planet.

The US didn't invent science, and the US doesn't govern it.

That's the evil of having private companies. Double-edged sword. You get good and fast research for profit, and you get the rulebook thrown out the window by the politicians in your pocket - for profit.

Private enterprise has always outpaced government-funded research so long as the barriers to entry are reasonable. Government does the pure science stuff before it is economically viable, then industry takes that knowledge and does something useful with it.

The Mercury, Gemini and Apollo missions didn't accomplish much in a practical sense, but now we have a host of satelites in orbit doing all manner of useful things for us.

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

If the U.N., as a presumably impartial body doesn't set guidelines, who will?
The US? We've already seen that the U.$. gov't is more interested in profit than in justice and protecting the planet.

That's the evil of having private companies. Double-edged sword. You get good and fast research for profit, and you get the rulebook thrown out the window by the politicians in your pocket - for profit.

Chuck, profit means productivity. It means that the endeavor being undertaken is actually producing something in greater quantity and quality than the resources being expended in the first place. The UN and any government for that matter is abhorrently unproductive. Those types of institutions are an anti-Midas touch functionality. Everything they touch turns to shit. Period.

What do you care if XYZ corporation makes a few bucks off of space tourists or a mining colony on Mars? Big Deal! So what!?

It's either that or we sit here as a species and get to listen to envy peddlers tell us how great it is they stopped the 'BIG BAD BUSINESS' guys from going into space. It's time the advocates of space exploration found some backbone and defended the goals they purportedly expound.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Private enterprise has always outpaced government-funded research so long as the barriers to entry are reasonable. Government does the pure science stuff before it is economically viable, then industry takes that knowledge and does something useful with it.

This is exactly why we won't be doing much "private sector inter-planetary exploration". Where is the market? What are we selling again?

I mean you can't sell mars rocks to mars fungi.... (perhaps you can, but it is not very profitable).

Regardless of the market issues, I really think we should get our own back-yard sorted out before we go messing up other planets! For goodness sake, we (as a species) can't even make fair decisions on how to share simple resources like food and energy.

We have not even developed sufficient thought and communication capabilities to avoid 'planetary civil war' pathetic, really pathetic!

Perhaps we should focus on getting things stable here first.... as a priority??!!

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Belief gets in the way of learning

Private enterprise has always outpaced government-funded research so long as the barriers to entry are reasonable. Government does the pure science stuff before it is economically viable, then industry takes that knowledge and does something useful with it.

This is exactly why we won't be doing much "private sector inter-planetary exploration". Where is the market? What are we selling again?

I mean you can't sell mars rocks to mars fungi.... (perhaps you can, but it is not very profitable).

Regardless of the market issues, I really think we should get our own back-yard sorted out before we go messing up other planets! For goodness sake, we (as a species) can't even make fair decisions on how to share simple resources like food and energy.

We have not even developed sufficient thought and communication capabilities to avoid 'planetary civil war' pathetic, really pathetic!

Perhaps we should focus on getting things stable here first.... as a priority??!!

Our own back yard sorted out first>? People have been using that argument for decades....when is that going to occur? Seriously, when is everything going to be perfect on planet earth so that we can move into space as a species? I don't think you have thought this through, man. Your prescription for mankind's future is infinite in time. You've got no timeline set up that is legitimately obtainable.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

[quote]
Private enterprise has always outpaced government-funded research so long as the barriers to entry are reasonable. Government does the pure science stuff before it is economically viable, then industry takes that knowledge and does something useful with it.

This is exactly why we won't be doing much "private sector inter-planetary exploration". Where is the market? What are we selling again?

I mean you can't sell mars rocks to mars fungi.... (perhaps you can, but it is not very profitable).

Regardless of the market issues, I really think we should get our own back-yard sorted out before we go messing up other planets! For goodness sake, we (as a species) can't even make fair decisions on how to share simple resources like food and energy.

We have not even developed sufficient thought and communication capabilities to avoid 'planetary civil war' pathetic, really pathetic!

Perhaps we should focus on getting things stable here first.... as a priority??!!

Our own back yard sorted out first>? People have been using that argument for decades....when is that going to occur?

Do you think a few decades or even a century is long in the 'grand scheme', stand back and take a look at the big picture!! Goodness, science is in its infancy we don't even understand ourselves (man, cognitive process, the human mind etc i could go on and on).

When?? Well that really all depends on US, now doesn't it. What do you really think it would take to make this place more sane?

Seriously, when is everything going to be perfect on planet earth so that we can move into space as a species? I don't think you have thought this through, man. Your prescription for mankind's future is infinite in time. You've got no timeline set up that is legitimately obtainable.

I could not be more serious. No one asked for perfect, just sane. Think of how the world at large and exploratory endeavours (of any kind, including space) would advance if the world was actually united and 'in balance'.

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Belief gets in the way of learning

[quote]
Private enterprise has always outpaced government-funded research so long as the barriers to entry are reasonable. Government does the pure science stuff before it is economically viable, then industry takes that knowledge and does something useful with it.

This is exactly why we won't be doing much "private sector inter-planetary exploration". Where is the market? What are we selling again?

I mean you can't sell mars rocks to mars fungi.... (perhaps you can, but it is not very profitable).

Regardless of the market issues, I really think we should get our own back-yard sorted out before we go messing up other planets! For goodness sake, we (as a species) can't even make fair decisions on how to share simple resources like food and energy.

We have not even developed sufficient thought and communication capabilities to avoid 'planetary civil war' pathetic, really pathetic!

Perhaps we should focus on getting things stable here first.... as a priority??!!

Our own back yard sorted out first>? People have been using that argument for decades....when is that going to occur?

Do you think a few decades or even a century is long in the 'grand scheme', stand back and take a look at the big picture!! Goodness, science is in its infancy we don't even understand ourselves (man, cognitive process, the human mind etc i could go on and on).

When?? Well that really all depends on US, now doesn't it. What do you really think it would take to make this place more sane?

Seriously, when is everything going to be perfect on planet earth so that we can move into space as a species? I don't think you have thought this through, man. Your prescription for mankind's future is infinite in time. You've got no timeline set up that is legitimately obtainable.

I could not be more serious. No one asked for perfect, just sane. Think of how the world at large and exploratory endeavours (of any kind, including space) would advance if the world was actually united and 'in balance'.

Then maybe my idea of the world makes me more bold than you...

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Then maybe my idea of the world makes me more bold than you...

Unusual choice of words, i would have thought you were dreaming... LOL... i mean seriously, look at the advances in space technology and exploration over the past 50 years (how old is the shuttle now?) IMO we are almost at a stand-still with more and more budgets being cut (NASA).

Perhaps we should focus our energies back here on good old terra firma until things are "managed better" before we get granduous ideas about colonising space.

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Belief gets in the way of learning

Perhaps we should focus our energies back here on good old terra firma until things are "managed better" before we get granduous ideas about colonising space.

What if we don't get things sorted out back here on terra firma?? How long do you reckon we have as things stand right now?

We need new resources and more importantly we need new technologies to make the most of the resources we have and if there's one thing that space exploration and commercial exploitation have in common its the continuous drive for newer more efficient ways to utilise resources. In an ideal world space exploration would be funded by governments for the common good - in the absence of that particular utopia I'll settle for profit driven research and exploration to achieve at least some of the same goals. Something is better than nothing!

Robert

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Then maybe my idea of the world makes me more bold than you...

Unusual choice of words, i would have thought you were dreaming... LOL... i mean seriously, look at the advances in space technology and exploration over the past 50 years (how old is the shuttle now?) IMO we are almost at a stand-still with more and more budgets being cut (NASA).

Perhaps we should focus our energies back here on good old terra firma until things are "managed better" before we get granduous ideas about colonising space.

What is 'managed better' ?

What is 'grandiose'?

All of these kinds of terms are idealogical ones. Dead ones. Tell me what they mean. Can you make them explicit? I want to know what they mean.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Perhaps we should focus our energies back here on good old terra firma until things are "managed better" before we get granduous ideas about colonising space.

What if we don't get things sorted out back here on terra firma?? How long do you reckon we have as things stand right now?

I think we will know the results if "we dont get things sorted out"... you just have to look at history to see what happens to civilisations that don't "get it together". They perish, either from within or from external forces.

We need new resources and more importantly we need new technologies to make the most of the resources we have

I think that food & energy supply problems are a complete and utter fallacy. These are arguably the only reasons to colonise space (beyond environmental damage) in order to "get more supplies"....but no commercial entities buy in to this because they also KNOW its a fallacy.

and if there's one thing that space exploration and commercial exploitation have in common its the continuous drive for newer more efficient ways to utilise resources.

I reckon our current programmes are the exact opposite. Why don't we stop all this shuttle rubbish and get serious about more advanced propulsion systems. Trains (steam/electric/magnetic lev etc)have evolved more than technology for space travel.

In an ideal world space exploration would be funded by governments for the common good - in the absence of that particular utopia I'll settle for profit driven research and exploration to achieve at least some of the same goals. Something is better than nothing!

How can governments in their current state even consider this. One single government alone spends 50% of the worldwide military budget on defence (some $400 Billion... is this sane?) these kinds of irrational imblances cannot continue. I won't tell you what happened to Japan and Germany when they cut their military spending to almost ZERO just go there and take a look.

In poorer countries government corruption is rampant at all levels (not just at the top like in the west). Food is probably much higher on the list than 'space travel'.

As for the private sector, i cannot see any compelling reason to do anything in outer space.

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Belief gets in the way of learning

Then maybe my idea of the world makes me more bold than you...

Unusual choice of words, i would have thought you were dreaming... LOL... i mean seriously, look at the advances in space technology and exploration over the past 50 years (how old is the shuttle now?) IMO we are almost at a stand-still with more and more budgets being cut (NASA).

Perhaps we should focus our energies back here on good old terra firma until things are "managed better" before we get granduous ideas about colonising space.

What is 'managed better' ?

What is 'grandiose'?

All of these kinds of terms are idealogical ones. Dead ones. Tell me what they mean. Can you make them explicit? I want to know what they mean.

Let’s just say hypothetically it will cost $1 quintillion Euro dollars to put a base on the moon. And then another $10 quintillion Euro dollars to put a base on Mars. Who is going to pay for it? Given our current system of global economics how could this EVER happen???

(remember its no longer a race to beat the Russians).

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Belief gets in the way of learning

Think of the earth as an egg. Inside the egg, the fetus has seemingly unlimited resources and space to grow at first. But when it grows large enough, it reaches a point where it has neither and it must hatch or die. See any parallels?

There's also the concept of 'all of our eggs in one basket'. All of humanity presently lives on Earth, and we can all name several kinds of rare but realistic events that could end our species. Most creatures place preservation of the species at the top of the list, and their method is geographical diversification.

We've grown to the threshold of having both the technology and the resources to 'hatch' and colonize locations away from Earth. It should be becoming our top priority.

Military types have played a strong role in human geographical diversification in the past thousand years, but privatization of space exploration works for me if it can be accomplished that way.

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