Political Thread [13] - CLOSED

Message boards : Politics : Political Thread [13] - CLOSED
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 . . . 23 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Octagon
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 13 Jun 05
Posts: 1418
Credit: 5,250,988
RAC: 109
United States
Message 241536 - Posted: 3 Feb 2006, 16:20:55 UTC - in response to Message 241259.  

rush,

..to state unequivocally that ....."every intelligence agency on earth thought Iraq had WMD's" is repeating talking point myths....

...sorry to argue the point but the distinction between the truth and lies goes to the heart of the discussion.

The Bush administration has proven to attempt to rule by lies, .....repeating their lies is as unworthy as their own spawning of those lies.

----------------------

As I said before, a pretext of an imminent threat as justification for invasion is recognized in international law as nothing less than a simple act of aggression.

To take the analogy further, ...were this type of behavior condoned in any way, ...any nation could then invade any other on the mere pretext of a fraudulently created imminent threat.

Universal condemnation of unjustified acts of aggression is a part of the somewhat tenuous thread of checks and balances that helps to maintain some semblance of peace and a balance of power in the world today.

You personally may think the jury is still out, but as far as legal precedent is concerned an unfounded cry of 'imminent' threat is still not a recognized legal excuse for acts of aggression.

You're free to wish otherwise, or believe that law should change for some reason or other but unless or until that happens, Bush's ""Iraq"" invasion is nothing more than an illegal act of aggression founded on wildly exaggerated pretext of imminent threat.

That there isn't universal condemnation and action to remedy Bush's illegal invasion and imperialistic nation building only points to the general decline in honorable mores of a large number of the world's government leaders today.

To their credit, some few have spoken out, condemned his actions and accepted risking the ire and bullying tactics of Bush's foreign policy procedures in response as the cost of maintaining some credibility and honor.

Just as what happened in England, when the Senate Intelligence Committee stopped their reporting, they effectively muzzled the investigation and publication into just how wide and how far reaching the pretext was promulgated.

....and far from being surprised by the Bush administration's actions or merely pointing out 'cronyism', the additional information on who's who and where they come from only points up the criminality of those behind the scenes who are pullings the strings on Bush's talking points.

The thoroughly inadequate investigations into illegal torture, illegal acts of rendition, and unconstitutional warrantless domestic spying will someday come to light and the crimes will be properly documented.

Thugs and hoodlums are at the helm of our ship of state and they enlist more thugs and hoodlums as a crew to work with them.... that they act illegally is in their very nature.

To again name just a few, when the veil of secrecy is lifted on the Niger uranium hoax and other fraudulent documents cited to justify the Iraq invasion, the pro-Isreal PAC secrets passing case, the Pentagon's Inspector General's investigation, and the Senate Intelligence reports, the further connections between the criminals of today and the criminals of previous administrations, such as those of Iran/Contra crimes, will be duly noted.

It's often years later that cries of conspiracy and acts of crime are borne out by the release of 'secrets'.... our history is rife with examples of what couldn't be believed at the time, but later the truth came along to smash that ill-held belief.

Some may think on a story about a boy who cried wolf......

The one thing often neglected to be emphasized, but never the less true, in the fable of the boy who cried wolf.......... the wolf does, in the end, make his appearance.

(snipped the ad hominem attacks)

Please pay attention. Iraq was in violation of its cease-fire agreement. This is and always has been legal justification for the resumption of hostilities. The US was willing to let the UN run around in circles 'inspecting' Iraq because the US was more worried about China and the former Soviet states.

I put 'inpsecting' in quotes because the UN sent only a tiny fraction of the number of inspectors that combed through Nazi Germany after World War II. I'm not aware of any mind-reading technology developed since World War II, so it is reasonable to state that the level of effort was lower in the case of inspecting Iraq.

On 9/11, the US's tolerance for risk changed dramatically. Iraq's violations, which had been morally reprehensible but were viewed as an acceptable risk, were now viewed as an immenent threat. Note that noting in Iraq changed between 9/10 and 9/12; the change was entirely one of perception in the US government. Iraq was in violation on 9/10 and could be invaded at any time in response. Saddam had a chunk of the UN on his payroll, so he only had to fear one of the origional coalition partners resuming hostilities... and on 9/10 that was a political impossibility. So, what's the incentive for Iraq to cooperate?

Iraq mis-caclulated the change in US perceptions on 9/11. This is an 'intelligence failure' far more serious (from Iraq's point of view) than any supposed bungling by the CIA that allowed 9/11 to happen. The US survived 9/11, Iraq's regime did not survive its intelligence failure.

Think of it this way... most people who drive cars do so at a speed above the posted speed limit. In a 55mph stretch of highway, speeds in excess of 70mph are routine. One day, on the far end of the state, some politician's kid is injured in a hit-and-run accident and suddenly the cops are pulling people over for going 56 in a 55 zone. Going 70 in a 55 zone was a crime the day before, and the speeding driver has no excuse when he or she gets a ticket, even if the reason for the change in enforcement has nothing to do with that particular driver.
No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.
ID: 241536 · Report as offensive
Profile Prognatus

Send message
Joined: 6 Jul 99
Posts: 1600
Credit: 391,546
RAC: 0
Norway
Message 241540 - Posted: 3 Feb 2006, 16:33:33 UTC - in response to Message 241400.  
Last modified: 3 Feb 2006, 16:39:20 UTC

Certainly Monica was willing, and the other girl was lying her a** off just to get money. So he was no sex offender. The only one he offended was his wife. And then maybe large parts of his country when he lied. So, he's a liar but no sex offender. What is worse, I don't know.
EU wants Iran taken to Security Council
You know, EU is not a political union - yet. They're going there.. slowly. Some time in the future EU will talk as one in foreign affairs. Then it's probably time EU took a permanent seat in the Security Council, leaving France and Great Britain's seats vacant. That would also solve the ongoing dispute about Germany's wish to have a permanent seat in the SC.

ID: 241540 · Report as offensive
Profile Darth Dogbytes™
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 03
Posts: 7512
Credit: 2,021,148
RAC: 0
United States
Message 241579 - Posted: 3 Feb 2006, 18:08:05 UTC - in response to Message 241540.  

Certainly Monica was willing, and the other girl was lying her a** off just to get money. So he was no sex offender. The only one he offended was his wife. And then maybe large parts of his country when he lied. So, he's a liar but no sex offender. What is worse, I don't know.
EU wants Iran taken to Security Council
You know, EU is not a political union - yet. They're going there.. slowly. Some time in the future EU will talk as one in foreign affairs. Then it's probably time EU took a permanent seat in the Security Council, leaving France and Great Britain's seats vacant. That would also solve the ongoing dispute about Germany's wish to have a permanent seat in the SC.



Both are jokes.

Account frozen...
ID: 241579 · Report as offensive
Profile SilentObserver64
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Sep 05
Posts: 139
Credit: 680,037
RAC: 0
United States
Message 241583 - Posted: 3 Feb 2006, 18:12:52 UTC

ID: 241583 · Report as offensive
Profile SilentObserver64
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Sep 05
Posts: 139
Credit: 680,037
RAC: 0
United States
Message 241585 - Posted: 3 Feb 2006, 18:15:08 UTC

ID: 241585 · Report as offensive
Profile The Simonator
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 18 Nov 04
Posts: 5700
Credit: 3,855,702
RAC: 50
United Kingdom
Message 241755 - Posted: 3 Feb 2006, 22:22:16 UTC

Certainly Monica was willing, and the other girl was lying her a** off just to get money. So he was no sex offender. The only one he offended was his wife. And then maybe large parts of his country when he lied. So, he's a liar but no sex offender. What is worse, I don't know.

He's a politician, surely we should be worried if he didn't lie.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
ID: 241755 · Report as offensive
Profile Misfit
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Jun 01
Posts: 21804
Credit: 2,815,091
RAC: 0
United States
Message 242038 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 5:14:40 UTC

ID: 242038 · Report as offensive
Profile SilentObserver64
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Sep 05
Posts: 139
Credit: 680,037
RAC: 0
United States
Message 242040 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 5:15:43 UTC - in response to Message 242038.  

Good One!!!
ID: 242040 · Report as offensive
Profile Misfit
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Jun 01
Posts: 21804
Credit: 2,815,091
RAC: 0
United States
Message 242043 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 5:18:28 UTC
Last modified: 4 Feb 2006, 5:20:10 UTC

ID: 242043 · Report as offensive
Ophus

Send message
Joined: 10 Nov 99
Posts: 205
Credit: 1,577,356
RAC: 4
United States
Message 242219 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 13:45:59 UTC
Last modified: 4 Feb 2006, 13:47:04 UTC

I don't know where you guys find these cartoons, but they are too funny.

And the one DogBytes posted of the Arkansas State sign that was funny.
ID: 242219 · Report as offensive
Profile Saenger
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 2452
Credit: 33,281
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 242226 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 14:07:12 UTC

ID: 242226 · Report as offensive
Profile RichaG
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 20 May 99
Posts: 1690
Credit: 19,287,294
RAC: 36
United States
Message 242304 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 16:17:35 UTC

ID: 242304 · Report as offensive
Profile Fuzzy Hollynoodles
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 9659
Credit: 251,998
RAC: 0
Message 242357 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 17:54:21 UTC
Last modified: 4 Feb 2006, 17:56:30 UTC

Cartoon row: Danish embassy ablaze








"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

ID: 242357 · Report as offensive
Profile Darth Dogbytes™
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 03
Posts: 7512
Credit: 2,021,148
RAC: 0
United States
Message 242442 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 19:36:51 UTC


Account frozen...
ID: 242442 · Report as offensive
Profile Misfit
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Jun 01
Posts: 21804
Credit: 2,815,091
RAC: 0
United States
Message 242453 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 19:46:44 UTC

ID: 242453 · Report as offensive
Profile Saenger
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 2452
Credit: 33,281
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 242463 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 20:00:44 UTC - in response to Message 242442.  
Last modified: 4 Feb 2006, 20:02:30 UTC


OPINION Democracy in a Cartoon By Ibn Warraq

in the english edition of Der Spiegel
ID: 242463 · Report as offensive
Profile Darth Dogbytes™
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 03
Posts: 7512
Credit: 2,021,148
RAC: 0
United States
Message 242471 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 20:07:49 UTC - in response to Message 242463.  


OPINION Democracy in a Cartoon By Ibn Warraq

in the english edition of Der Spiegel


That was a great article. Everyone should read it.

Account frozen...
ID: 242471 · Report as offensive
Profile Saenger
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 2452
Credit: 33,281
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 242496 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 20:46:14 UTC - in response to Message 242471.  


OPINION Democracy in a Cartoon By Ibn Warraq

in the english edition of Der Spiegel


That was a great article. Everyone should read it.


The answer by a german journalist from Istanbul:
European Arrogance Versus Muslim Fanaticism By Jürgen Gottschlich in Istanbul
ID: 242496 · Report as offensive
Profile Fuzzy Hollynoodles
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 9659
Credit: 251,998
RAC: 0
Message 242554 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 21:46:31 UTC - in response to Message 242496.  


The answer by a german journalist from Istanbul:
European Arrogance Versus Muslim Fanaticism By Jürgen Gottschlich in Istanbul


Thanks Saenger, this was informative. I read it all because I thought it was a satiric description of the chain of events, but I must say that I felt just as sick as you feel, every time you read about Germans and the KZ-camps, which you expressed in your post in this thread.



"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

ID: 242554 · Report as offensive
Profile Darth Dogbytes™
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 30 Jul 03
Posts: 7512
Credit: 2,021,148
RAC: 0
United States
Message 242561 - Posted: 4 Feb 2006, 21:59:22 UTC - in response to Message 242496.  
Last modified: 4 Feb 2006, 22:00:29 UTC


OPINION Democracy in a Cartoon By Ibn Warraq

in the english edition of Der Spiegel


That was a great article. Everyone should read it.


The answer by a german journalist from Istanbul:
European Arrogance Versus Muslim Fanaticism By Jürgen Gottschlich in Istanbul


Both articles were well written. It is exactly this, the free exchange of views and ideas is what it's all about, i.e., freedom of the press without government or religious censorship. It is a right so basic that it is at the core of every true democracy.

Account frozen...
ID: 242561 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 . . . 23 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Political Thread [13] - CLOSED


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.