[quote]-[ snip ]-

-[ snip ]-

-[ snip ]-

Siran posts perhaps once a year. Don't expect a response. (If he does, not the un-Vulcan approach. :-])

Dude,

Just mind your own business and if you post, post FACTS not fiction that suits your own mindset.

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Oh good grief.

I'm glad to see you posting! I'm pretty sure I know your views but can you expand on your comments here? Also, penny for your thoughts on why this movement seems to be growing (or maybe it isn't)? What is it that's so appealing to people that they join these socially unacceptable groups? Or am I completely off base here? Please add additional comments! I'd love to read them.

I haven't been around because I can't deal with some of the alt-reality posted on these boards.

How have we even got to the point where Nazi's aren't automatically the bad guys? I'm mystified.

Every day I watch the news and I see the media trying to guild the Trump turd, trying to piece together something rational with what is clearly irrational. Now this fiction about there being some sort of alt-left at this demonstration who are just as bad as the Nazi's. I knew for a fact that if I read here, Clyde would be proclaiming this insanity and no doubt crying foul at anyone who points out he's effectively a Nazi sympathizer now. (If this hasn't happened already...its about to).

Some truths are self evident. One of these is that Nazi's are bad and you really ought to supporting the people that oppose them.

How do you think we ended up here? What has happened to society in the last 10 years or so that lead us to the point where we actually believe people who oppose racists and Nazi's are actually considered the bad guys? Where did this mentality come from and why are so many people buying into it?

Some truths are self evident. One of these is that Nazi's are bad and you really ought to supporting the people that oppose them.

Uhh... please excuse me if I disagree. Some of those opposed to Nazis are just as bad, if not worse, than the Nazis themselves.

So you're saying that people who oppose an ideology that asserts that white people are meant to be superior to all others; that Jews are evil; that non-whites are meant to be subjugated; and that blue-eyed, blonde haired people are the rightful dominant force of the world... you're saying that people who oppose all that are bad people?

Here's one to ponder:

Many years ago I worked for an auto fasteners sales company in San Diego, CA. I was not a sales person, my work was strictly on the computer. Anyway, our North San Diego County salesperson was talking with me, one day, on one of his trips to the warehouse. He told me that at one of his customer's the shop manager (a Mexican national) asked him if he was learning Spanish. The salesperson told him "no". The manager told him he had better start learning because they (the Mexicans) are taking over this country.

I have never had any reason to disbelieve anything that salesperson ever told me; I tend to believe him. And, the salesperson believed the shop manager because he was not one for making jokes or anything of a humorous nature.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Did you agree that the Mexicans are "taking over"? Do you feel that Mexicans entering the workforce threatens your Caucasian culture? (I'm assuming you're Caucasian.)

About that video: it sucked big time. And, no matter what is done, bigotry will never go away. Everyone is bigoted in one form or another, myself included.

I would also like some more elaboration on this. Do you feel that since we are all prejudiced/biased in our own ways, we can't try to better ourselves and overcome our natures? That sounds rather defeatist to me.

Hi Ozz,

I'm not sure what to believe. I just introduced an experience I had. Whether or not that manager believed what he said and what he said is true, I don't know.

One other thing that happened personally and still bugs the heck out of me was that at that same company I worked at, INS came in one day and made my boss and me prove we were U.S.A. citizens. My boss is Italian and I'm Swedish and Italian. Neither of us looked Mexican in the least, and yet we were harassed by INS. This happened over 20 years ago. At the time I had long, very blonde hair ( it's darkened with age :( ). My skin is very fair, not brown at all. To say the least, we both were pissed about the INS harassment.

@Sarge: Once again, mind your own business.

Have a great day, Ozz. :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Some truths are self evident. One of these is that Nazi's are bad and you really ought to supporting the people that oppose them.

Uhh... please excuse me if I disagree. Some of those opposed to Nazis are just as bad, if not worse, than the Nazis themselves.

So you're saying that people who oppose an ideology that asserts that white people are meant to be superior to all others; that Jews are evil; that non-whites are meant to be subjugated; and that blue-eyed, blonde haired people are the rightful dominant force of the world... you're saying that people who oppose all that are bad people?

No.

What I AM saying is that some of the groups out there that oppose the Nazis are just as bad, if not worse.

The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.


Jeez...

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https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

Oh good grief.

I'm a white South African. South Africans know something about white nationalism, bigotry, persecution and racism; it is after all only 23 years since the fascist, racist National Party was still ruling my country. I lived through the last 31 years of that regime's rule. Let me be clear: Nazism, neo-Nazism, white nationalism, antisemitism, fascism - call it what you will, they usually go together - is evil. Those who oppose it should be lauded, applauded and supported. Those who are ambivalent, who create fictional smokescreens to enable them to claim that those opposing the fascists just as bad or worse, are themselves just as bad or worse.

So, yeah. Oh good grief.

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Good to see you posting John.

You are correct, you are either against Nazi's and their ilk, or you are one.

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Oh good grief.

I'm a white South African. South Africans know something about white nationalism, bigotry, persecution and racism; it is after all only 23 years since the fascist, racist National Party was still ruling my country. I lived through the last 31 years of that regime's rule. Let me be clear: Nazism, neo-Nazism, white nationalism, antisemitism, fascism - call it what you will, they usually go together - is evil. Those who oppose it should be lauded, applauded and supported. Those who are ambivalent, who create fictional smokescreens to enable them to claim that those opposing the fascists just as bad or worse, are themselves just as bad or worse.

So, yeah. Oh good grief.

I want to ask you the same questions I asked Es99. How do you think we ended up here? What is so appealing about the white supremacist ideology that has people making excuses or sympathizing with them so much recently? I see people arguing for their right to speak publicly, and as a huge free speech proponent myself I can't find a reasonable argument against that logic, but I still find myself abhorring what the white supremacists stand for and support those protesting their presence and their bold statement of appearing in public without trying to hide their faces. That's another question: why don't they feel scared to show their faces knowing they could be rightly outed and shamed? What do you think is happening to my country where bigots are proud and the alleged Conservative party resorts to legal-speak to protect them while pointing fingers at the fictitious "alt-left"?

Some truths are self evident. One of these is that Nazi's are bad and you really ought to supporting the people that oppose them.

Uhh... please excuse me if I disagree. Some of those opposed to Nazis are just as bad, if not worse, than the Nazis themselves.

So you're saying that people who oppose an ideology that asserts that white people are meant to be superior to all others; that Jews are evil; that non-whites are meant to be subjugated; and that blue-eyed, blonde haired people are the rightful dominant force of the world... you're saying that people who oppose all that are bad people?

No.

What I AM saying is that some of the groups out there that oppose the Nazis are just as bad, if not worse.

The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.


Jeez...

Thank you for clarifying. I find it hard to think of many things more despicable than fascist supremacists, but I suppose it's entirely possible.

One other thing that happened personally and still bugs the heck out of me was that at that same company I worked at, INS came in one day and made my boss and me prove we were U.S.A. citizens. My boss is Italian and I'm Swedish and Italian. Neither of us looked Mexican in the least, and yet we were harassed by INS. This happened over 20 years ago. At the time I had long, very blonde hair ( it's darkened with age :( ). My skin is very fair, not brown at all. To say the least, we both were pissed about the INS harassment.

I was fired from Wal-Mart many moons ago because I refused to cut my long hair. I still hold it against the company and refuse to spend any of my hard-earned dollars at that store. Sometimes when I tell that story to others, they question the veracity of my side of the story and sometimes choose not to believe me.

I've lost job opportunities because long hair is not accepted in the professional workplace. It's outright discrimination but not legally protected.

My point is that we all have negative experiences. I don't hold short-haired people in contempt for discriminating against me and my long hair. It kinda sucks that you had to prove you're an American citizen, but if they were just doing their jobs, even if you "looked" American (could you not have been an illegal Pole? Should the INS only be looking for illegal Mexicans?), I should hope you don't hold Mexicans or the INS in contempt for your experience.

Alt Left Hooded Black Shirts, many who also hide their faces. Are not a fiction.

The only difference between the Radical Right, who the Media has been describing as the Alt Right. And the Radical Left, who is being describing as the Alt Left.

Is that the Alt Right usually champions and admits their evil. Giving many disgusting reasons they are correct.

Unlike the Alt Left. Which by denying their evil, and attacks against those advocating Freedom from Intimidation for All People. May be, if they really believe their accusations. Crazier than the Alt Right.

It's the alt-left boogeyman. Do they eat babies too?

---

Reality Internet Personality

How do you think we ended up here? What has happened to society in the last 10 years or so that lead us to the point where we actually believe people who oppose racists and Nazi's are actually considered the bad guys? Where did this mentality come from and why are so many people buying into it?

The same as when Hitler rose to power. When times are bad people will look for an ideology that pins the blame on someone and offers an easy fix.

Racism has always been an unacknowledged problem in the US. Neo-liberalism has help create huge gap between rich and poor and those left behind want an explanation. It's not in the interests of those in charge to point out that massive tax breaks for the wealthy are a part of the problem, in fact watch as those in charge prepare to give themselves more of the same.

Slavery has been replaced with an unfair penal system that disproportionately targets people of colour. The poor are getting poorer, black people are starting to fight back against being murdered on the streets by the state, causing unrest. White people are scared and looking for a scapegoat and what better one to give them that the vocal minorities who want justice and equal rights. Add to that American culture of blaming poor people for their problems and the wealthy elites have had an easy time dividing groups against each other through the use of the propaganda "news" channels such as Fox News that they own.

The people who speak out are then smeared and painted as snowflakes, or false labels such as alt-left are created in order to silence dissent.

The Democrat party has forgotten who it is supposed to represent, and the Rupublican party in a desperate bid for power are supporting a narcissist, mysongynist, white supremacist with dementia.

I've probably missed a few factors, but hopefully I've got the salient points.

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Reality Internet Personality

Slavery has been replaced with an unfair penal system that disproportionately targets people of colour. The poor are getting poorer, black people are starting to fight back against being murdered on the streets by the state, causing unrest. White people are scared and looking for a scapegoat and what better one to give them that the vocal minorities who want justice and equal rights. Add to that American culture of blaming poor people for their problems and the wealthy elites have had an easy time dividing groups against each other through the use of the propaganda "news" channels such as Fox News that they own.

Sounds like America has become Panem. Would you say that's a fair comparison? Is it only America?

I've probably missed a few factors, but hopefully I've got the salient points.

I think you missed a big one, how America views violence. Americans' will ban any expression of the normal human function of procreation as an obscenity, but they will celebrate expressions of violence, even turning violent criminals into folk heroes.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/08/reflections-white-supremacist-150828100415193.html
Arno Michaelis wrote:

I have been talking about my past as a white power skinhead and my present as a human being dedicated to peace publicly since January 2010. And the question I am most frequently asked is: what made you change?

The simple, one-word answer: exhaustion.

A taste for violence cultivated since being a first grade school bus bully had a lot to do with me getting involved in white supremacy; violence that tasted much better if I was able to convince myself that it was justified.

Early on the thrill of dominating someone else, and the ensuing consternation of parents and teachers, was plenty of justification. As I grew older, I found that the thrill was magnified immensely when it happened in the context of an 'us' versus 'them' narrative.

First it was kids versus teachers, then whatever clique I led versus any other clique, then punks versus society, then the 'white race' that I had chosen to identify myself as versus everyone else on earth.

---

I've probably missed a few factors, but hopefully I've got the salient points.

I think you missed a big one, how America views violence. Americans' will ban any expression of the normal human function of procreation as an obscenity, but they will celebrate expressions of violence, even turning violent criminals into folk heroes.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/08/reflections-white-supremacist-150828100415193.html
Arno Michaelis wrote:

I have been talking about my past as a white power skinhead and my present as a human being dedicated to peace publicly since January 2010. And the question I am most frequently asked is: what made you change?

The simple, one-word answer: exhaustion.

A taste for violence cultivated since being a first grade school bus bully had a lot to do with me getting involved in white supremacy; violence that tasted much better if I was able to convince myself that it was justified.

Early on the thrill of dominating someone else, and the ensuing consternation of parents and teachers, was plenty of justification. As I grew older, I found that the thrill was magnified immensely when it happened in the context of an 'us' versus 'them' narrative.

First it was kids versus teachers, then whatever clique I led versus any other clique, then punks versus society, then the 'white race' that I had chosen to identify myself as versus everyone else on earth.

I would say what you are describing is Toxic Masculinity, which would explain why it is mainly young males who are drawn to extremist groups.

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Reality Internet Personality

https://www.yahoo.com/news/neo-nazi-website-asks-readers-230101195.html

One of America’s most prominent neo-Nazi websites has apparently ordered its readers to harass the funeral of Heather Heyer, the civil rights worker who was killed during the disorder in the Virginian town of Charlottesville.

The Daily Stormer helped organise the ultra-right wing rally where a car was driven into counter-demonstrators, killing the 32-year-old paralegal and hurting 19 other people.

Andrew Auernheimer, known by the online pseudonym ‘weev’, instructed users on the do “some research” on the ceremony.

He said: “What’s the location of the fat skank’s funeral … get on it, e-sleuths. I’d do it myself but slammed with current logistical issues. I want to get people on the ground there.”

[quote]-[ snip ]-

-[ snip ]-

-[ snip ]-

Siran posts perhaps once a year. Don't expect a response. (If he does, not the un-Vulcan approach. :-])

Dude,

Just mind your own business and if you post, post FACTS not fiction that suits your own mindset.

Siran

YOU mind YOUR own business, I DID post FACTS!!!
Come at me, bro.

---

Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Here's one to ponder:

Many years ago I worked for an auto fasteners sales company in San Diego, CA. I was not a sales person, my work was strictly on the computer. Anyway, our North San Diego County salesperson was talking with me, one day, on one of his trips to the warehouse. He told me that at one of his customer's the shop manager (a Mexican national) asked him if he was learning Spanish. The salesperson told him "no". The manager told him he had better start learning because they (the Mexicans) are taking over this country.

I have never had any reason to disbelieve anything that salesperson ever told me; I tend to believe him. And, the salesperson believed the shop manager because he was not one for making jokes or anything of a humorous nature.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Did you agree that the Mexicans are "taking over"? Do you feel that Mexicans entering the workforce threatens your Caucasian culture? (I'm assuming you're Caucasian.)

About that video: it sucked big time. And, no matter what is done, bigotry will never go away. Everyone is bigoted in one form or another, myself included.

I would also like some more elaboration on this. Do you feel that since we are all prejudiced/biased in our own ways, we can't try to better ourselves and overcome our natures? That sounds rather defeatist to me.

Hi Ozz,

I'm not sure what to believe. I just introduced an experience I had. Whether or not that manager believed what he said and what he said is true, I don't know.

One other thing that happened personally and still bugs the heck out of me was that at that same company I worked at, INS came in one day and made my boss and me prove we were U.S.A. citizens. My boss is Italian and I'm Swedish and Italian. Neither of us looked Mexican in the least, and yet we were harassed by INS. This happened over 20 years ago. At the time I had long, very blonde hair ( it's darkened with age :( ). My skin is very fair, not brown at all. To say the least, we both were pissed about the INS harassment.

@Sarge: Once again, mind your own business.

Have a great day, Ozz. :)

Siran

@Siran, who had to post twice before I posted once, YOU mind YOUR own business, c'mon at me, big boy.

---

Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

I'd rather this thread remain on topic, please.

One other thing that happened personally and still bugs the heck out of me was that at that same company I worked at, INS came in one day and made my boss and me prove we were U.S.A. citizens. My boss is Italian and I'm Swedish and Italian. Neither of us looked Mexican in the least, and yet we were harassed by INS. This happened over 20 years ago. At the time I had long, very blonde hair ( it's darkened with age :( ). My skin is very fair, not brown at all. To say the least, we both were pissed about the INS harassment.

I was fired from Wal-Mart many moons ago because I refused to cut my long hair. I still hold it against the company and refuse to spend any of my hard-earned dollars at that store. Sometimes when I tell that story to others, they question the veracity of my side of the story and sometimes choose not to believe me.

I've lost job opportunities because long hair is not accepted in the professional workplace. It's outright discrimination but not legally protected.

My point is that we all have negative experiences. I don't hold short-haired people in contempt for discriminating against me and my long hair. It kinda sucks that you had to prove you're an American citizen, but if they were just doing their jobs, even if you "looked" American (could you not have been an illegal Pole? Should the INS only be looking for illegal Mexicans?), I should hope you don't hold Mexicans or the INS in contempt for your experience.

Hi Ozz,

We don't go to Wally World either, we refuse to spend money there. We don't go to Home Depot either. Target too, I believe is now on our do-not- go-there list.

It is truly sad that they will discriminate against long hair and yet hire green, blue, purple, pink colored hair and nose rings and studs and lip rings and studs and tattoos from head to toe. I see someone like that in a store, I don't deal with them. Long hair? Doesn't bother me, I used to have hair to the middle of my back. And, had no problem getting jobs because of it. But that was looooong ago.

Gotta go, have a great day! :)

Siran

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath