Message boards :
Number crunching :
For the betterment of BOINC
Message board moderation
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · Next
Author | Message |
---|---|
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22228 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
And of course the cache size to allow for at least 12 hours to cover maintenance. This can be check by turn around time/consecutive valids. If a computer is returning tasks at a fast rate and reliable rate, give them more. This could be calculated something like the greater of 100 OR 100/TurnAroundTime. Slow computers would still get 100 (100/10d==100 tasks), and fast computers (100/0.2d=500 tasks). The 100 value could be modified so that everyone has the same cache size (in days). This is a project specific item, not a BOINC general one. Each project can either set a limit on the number of tasks allowed (as SETI has done), or use a expect run time based cache as many other projects do. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Brent Norman Send message Joined: 1 Dec 99 Posts: 2786 Credit: 685,657,289 RAC: 835 |
This is a project specific item, not a BOINC general one. Each project can either set a limit on the number of tasks allowed (as SETI has done), or use a expect run time based cache as many other projects do.Yes, I understand that this is a project specific setting. But if the option was included in the server source code to easily implement such a system, more projects might use it (or similar) rather than just a default number of tasks. |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14654 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
Which actually causes me a problem.And of course the cache size to allow for at least 12 hours to cover maintenance. This can be check by turn around time/consecutive valids. If a computer is returning tasks at a fast rate and reliable rate, give them more. This could be calculated something like the greater of 100 OR 100/TurnAroundTime. Slow computers would still get 100 (100/10d==100 tasks), and fast computers (100/0.2d=500 tasks). The 100 value could be modified so that everyone has the same cache size (in days).This is a project specific item, not a BOINC general one. Each project can either set a limit on the number of tasks allowed (as SETI has done), or use a expect run time based cache as many other projects do. Cache size - "Store at least --- days of work", and the same for additional - is a global preference, common across all projects. I use the same GPUs for GPUGrid and SETI. GPUGrid likes to have work completed and returned within 24 hours - and tasks are currently running for about 15 of those 24 hours. I've settled on a cache which allows GPUGrid to fetch new work when about 3 hours remains on the current task - that seems to work. But SETI needs at least a 12 hour cache every Tuesday... At the moment, I'm manually overfetching every Tuesday morning, then trying to remember to set everything back to normal after the outage has started. |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22228 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
The option is already there, and the majority of projects use the "time based" cache. It's just that some, as Richard has described, abuse the deadlines so making any meaningful cache control a waste of time and effort. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14654 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
The option is already there, and the majority of projects use the "time based" cache.It's the science which abuses the deadlines. SETI can allow relaxed deadlines, because any contact with ET is bound to take place over a timescale of years, possibly centuries. And as astronomer-in-charge, Eric chooses to allow users of slower devices - such as Android phones, only able to crunch when charging back at base - to participate in the project. But GPUGrid is running huge biochemical simulations, in competition with other research groups around the world. If they don't get their data back pronto, they'll lose their chance to publish. |
Keith Myers Send message Joined: 29 Apr 01 Posts: 13164 Credit: 1,160,866,277 RAC: 1,873 |
Something Jason G has mentioned in the past- more flexible Computing Resource allocation. I agree with Grant's proposal. this is exactly the mechanism that should be put in place. I have to do a lot of manual intervention to accomplish the same goals for my resources. It would be best if the project handled that automatically. Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association) |
Jeff Buck Send message Joined: 11 Feb 00 Posts: 1441 Credit: 148,764,870 RAC: 0 |
In the category of mild annoyances, it sure would be nice to dispense with that "finish file present too long" feature. I know it's been brought up and discussed many times before, so hopefully it's already on the list, but it really does irritate me when a task finishes successfully only to have the time and resources expended on it thrown away by BOINC. |
Grant (SSSF) Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 13751 Credit: 208,696,464 RAC: 304 |
Well Nitpicker is dead and we now have Nebula at the Atlas cluster, but the principle was sound, give the heavy work to the machines that can deal with it. It means of course generating two types of workunit, credit would need to be apportioned on flops applied etc not on simple time taken. High end m/c 's wouldn't run out of work on Tuesdays either! All doable by having BOINC manage Computing Resources as a whole, and not having CPU, GPU and "other" being considered different & separate. Grant Darwin NT |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22228 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
...Which assumes that the science project has the capability, or desire, to produce a whole suite of applications for all known combinations of CPU/GPU/OS. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22228 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
Detection and blocking of "rogue hosts" - those that are returning a high proportion of "invalid", "error" results, those demanding improbably high numbers of tasks when compared with their rate of return of "valid" results (this would require a mechanism to cope with new and updated hosts). Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Brent Norman Send message Joined: 1 Dec 99 Posts: 2786 Credit: 685,657,289 RAC: 835 |
Do the limits of download and upload rate settings serve any useful purpose?I think they do, however I do not use them. Having a 5Mb/s download and 4 computers, if I were one to constantly watch YouTube videos or streaming it would be useful to limit the bandwidth BOINC use to not affect streaming as much. |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14654 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
...Which assumes that the science project has the capability, or desire, to produce a whole suite of applications for all known combinations of CPU/GPU/OS.Not necessarily. The decision tree would some something like: "Here is a task. You have applications A, B, C, D, E. Applications B, D and E are capable of running this task, but A and C are not. Pick whichever of B, D, or E you like to run it, whatever hardware they run on." From the server side, that should be (relatively) easy to do - including the corollary, "Here is a task, but none of your apps can run it, so I'm not going to send it to you." The difficulty comes for the client juggling multiple local queues, including multiple apps for the same hardware (SoG or CUDA?). I for one don't want to program that, to the satisfaction of every user - the matrix of preferences alone would be horrendous. But all that is way, way beyond the current scope of these threads (currently on 12 different BOINC projects). Our first goal is to sort out the management structure of BOINC, the organisation. Then to sort out the repository structure of BOINC, the software source code - so that multiple developers can work simultaneously. Then to recruit those multiple (probably volunteer - we have no money for this) developers. Then show those developers the list of ideas which have been harvested from these lists (thank you), and stand well back while they get on with it. |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14654 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
And if your laptop moved from place to place, sometimes using a metered connection, sometimes not. As Microsoft does with Windows 10 updates.Do the limits of download and upload rate settings serve any useful purpose?I think they do, however I do not use them. Having a 5Mb/s download and 4 computers, if I were one to constantly watch YouTube videos or streaming it would be useful to limit the bandwidth BOINC use to not affect streaming as much. |
Tom M Send message Joined: 28 Nov 02 Posts: 5124 Credit: 276,046,078 RAC: 462 |
Maybe we need a "messages" area for SmartPhones aka Android? I know we have OS specific message areas for Windows, Mac, Linux and Gpu questions as well as some more generic general questions. I think we may need a smartphone message area. I have been watching my smartphone painfully munch through its tasks I I want to know where the "app_config.xml" file is :) Tom A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association). |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14654 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
Maybe we need a "messages" area for SmartPhones aka Android?What and where do you mean by a "messages area", in this context? |
Mr. Kevvy Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 3776 Credit: 1,114,826,392 RAC: 3,319 |
|
Darrell Send message Joined: 14 Mar 03 Posts: 267 Credit: 1,418,681 RAC: 0 |
Maybe we need a "messages" area for SmartPhones aka Android? When viewing your running Tasks in the Android app, Touch the 3 bars icon before the word Tasks and scroll up the menu that appears. Event Log is the last item. |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14654 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
Ah. The BOINC software would allow Eric to create that - nothing needed in this thread.What and where do you mean by a "messages area", in this context?A Q&A forum... though technically Android is a Linux derivative. Just ask him - I know Eric is an Android enthusiast (in that he wants to provide supported applications for this project). |
Al Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1682 Credit: 477,343,364 RAC: 482 |
...Social media in the client is not needed in my eyes; and for example for me more discouraging to connect. No need to Facebook or Twitter to be connected to BOINC in my eyes. Again open that to 3rd parties who might see a benefit, ok.God no, please. Just No. Please. |
Al Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1682 Credit: 477,343,364 RAC: 482 |
(2) To open the "credits" can of worms... let the "new, improved, BOINC" take on the credit award process and -NOT- leave it to the individual projects. Whatever the credit basis, whether gigaflops or elapsed time or some other metric, it would at least be uniform across projects and mitigate the (scientifically) meaningless competition for more "credit."This. To allow meaningful comparisons of testing parameter changes to accurately reflect if said change had a positive or negative effect on output in the real world environment, and not some random figure as it appears it is now. And yes, hopefully it will kill the e-peen competition/arms race between projects as well, that would be a welcome bonus. Re: BOINC additions:And This. That would be great in addition to the above, to get a decent guesstimate as to how it should most likely perform in the real world, to tweak it before starting to process real work units. Sadly, I don't have the ability to help with this in the coding sense, I couldn't code myself out of a wet paper bag. I try to contribute in other ways though, and when life settles down a little bit in my world, I would be willing to test some things (if your looking to test on outlier rigs like my own that stretch the envelope a bit), as well as the annual contribution. |
©2024 University of California
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.