robert,

how is that CPU being cooled? Standard AMD fan? Aftermarket cooler? How old is the thermal paste on it?

If you are having problem cooling the CPU, might be some places to look at besides how many cores are being used.

The original fan and heatsink HP shipped with the computer. The thermal paste is still the original also. HP built the computer for me back in 2009.

I still don't have a reasonable way to look for changes or ripple on the 12v line.

. . Hi Robert,

. . I had a look at your results and you have not thrown an ivalid for over 30 hours, and there have been a lot of validated WUs in that time. You may have solved the problem already. What is the PSU rating on that HP box? I am guessing 280W (going on the fact that my HP Core(2) Duo has a 240W PSU). It may be simply that the GTX560 needs more power than it can provide. Have you considered trying the 560 in your other PC?

Stephen

.

Not sure which box you specifically have, Robert, but that Core2Quad is probably the SLB8W, in which case at 95w it is on the high side heat- and power-wise. My main box here is an HP-8000 CMT, which I put a SLB8W into to replace the E6600 core2Duo it came with.
The 8000/8080 CMT has a 325w supply installed. The SFF version has a 240w supply, the USDT version only a 135w supply. My 8000 happily supports 2x GTX750ti SCs.
I did have heat issues, even with the E6600, so when I installed the Q9650 I also got an ARCTIC Freezer 7 Pro for ~$20 and replaced the existing case fan with an ARCTIC F9 for ~$10. Stays nice and cool, crunches at %100 24x7 at around 60-65c, and there is no longer any audible fan noise.
Sorry for all the excess detail, Robert, but perhaps it's useful, to you or someone else, and hopefully applicable to your setup..
Jim ...

---

. . Hi Robert,

. . I had a look at your results and you have not thrown an ivalid for over 30 hours, and there have been a lot of validated WUs in that time. You may have solved the problem already. What is the PSU rating on that HP box? I am guessing 280W (going on the fact that my HP Core(2) Duo has a 240W PSU). It may be simply that the GTX560 needs more power than it can provide. Have you considered trying the 560 in your other PC?

Stephen

.

Not sure which box you specifically have, Robert, but that Core2Quad is probably the SLB8W, in which case at 95w it is on the high side heat- and power-wise. My main box here is an HP-8000 CMT, which I put a SLB8W into to replace the E6600 core2Duo it came with.
The 8000/8080 CMT has a 325w supply installed. The SFF version has a 240w supply, the USDT version only a 135w supply. My 8000 happily supports 2x GTX750ti SCs.
I did have heat issues, even with the E6600, so when I installed the Q9650 I also got an ARCTIC Freezer 7 Pro for ~$20 and replaced the existing case fan with an ARCTIC F9 for ~$10. Stays nice and cool, crunches at %100 24x7 at around 60-65c, and there is no longer any audible fan noise.
Sorry for all the excess detail, Robert, but perhaps it's useful, to you or someone else, and hopefully applicable to your setup..
Jim ...

. . Hi Jim,

. . Even if it has a 325W PSU it would be below the needs of a GTX560, it is a 150W TDP card. The 750ti's are only 60W cards. Nvidia specify a 450W PSU for the 560, in practice you might get away with 350W plus, but not less. How many PCIe connectors are in your HP box? There are none in my HP 8000 elite (but is is SFF and only has 240w PSU).

Stephen

.

I still don't have a reasonable way to look for changes or ripple on the 12v line.

Changes (idle <-> loaded system) should be visible in SIV
http://rh-software.com/

For Ripple I think Oscilloscope is needed:
"Measurements for Ripple Voltage were obtained using a 100 MHz Tektronix TDS224 Digital Storage Oscilloscope"
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/VX_450W/3.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/VX_450W/4.html

I've downloaded SIV and will try it.

I no longer have an oscilloscope or a voltmeter available.

robert,

how is that CPU being cooled? Standard AMD fan? Aftermarket cooler? How old is the thermal paste on it?

If you are having problem cooling the CPU, might be some places to look at besides how many cores are being used.

The original fan and heatsink HP shipped with the computer. The thermal paste is still the original also. HP built the computer for me back in 2009.

I still don't have a reasonable way to look for changes or ripple on the 12v line.

. . Hi Robert,

. . I had a look at your results and you have not thrown an ivalid for over 30 hours, and there have been a lot of validated WUs in that time. You may have solved the problem already. What is the PSU rating on that HP box? I am guessing 280W (going on the fact that my HP Core(2) Duo has a 240W PSU). It may be simply that the GTX560 (which needs 150W for itself) needs more power than it can provide. Have you considered trying the 560 in your other PC? Also that GTX560 needs 2 6pin external power connectors (PCIe), does the HP have them?

Stephen

.

I've found that it usually takes at least 30 hours for invalids to be detected, so I plan to wait longer before deciding if the problem is fixed by almost shutting down all CPU workunits. I'm still getting suspicious spike results notices, still with no way to tell which SETI@home task they were from.

The computer with the 560 is an HP d5200t, with a 450W PSU. It took a few adapters to provide the two 6pin connectors - the PSU does not provide them directly. It still uses the original 3 GHz Q9650 CPU. I haven't found information on whether the CPU is soldered in place or in a socket. If it's in a socket, what other CPUs should work better in the same socket?

I've been careful not to order graphics boards listed as needing a PSU rated more than I have, except for a GTX 980 which is waiting for a new computer with a higher rated PSU.

My other computer has only a 300W PSU, so is that adequate for even trying the 560?

Neither computer has a separate PSU for the CPU.

. . Hi Jim,

. . Even if it has a 325W PSU it would be below the needs of a GTX560, it is a 150W TDP card. The 750ti's are only 60W cards. Nvidia specify a 450W PSU for the 560, in practice you might get away with 350W plus, but not less. How many PCIe connectors are in your HP box? There are none in my HP 8000 elite (but is is SFF and only has 240w PSU).

Stephen

.

NVidia's ratings are so conservative it's nuts. Add to that the fact that even in heavy duty crunching the cards seldom exceed 80% of TDP and there's a lot of headroom there. When you add together all the "worst case" ratings, the requirements end up totally out of proportion to reality.
The CMT has 2 x16 slots (second is only wired for x4) and 1 x1 slot. The way it's laid out the x16 slots are adjacent, so with dual slot GPUs only the x16 and x1 are usable. I use an x1 riser to support the second 750, as the 2.5gb vs. 5.0gb bus rate is irrelevant for what we're doing, especially now with SoG.
So, I'll never get a third GPU running in the CMT, too bad as I think the CPU would handle it well and there's probably enough room left on that 325w supply for a third 750.

---

. . Hi Robert,

. . I had a look at your results and you have not thrown an ivalid for over 30 hours, and there have been a lot of validated WUs in that time. You may have solved the problem already. What is the PSU rating on that HP box? I am guessing 280W (going on the fact that my HP Core(2) Duo has a 240W PSU). It may be simply that the GTX560 (which needs 150W for itself) needs more power than it can provide. Have you considered trying the 560 in your other PC? Also that GTX560 needs 2 6pin external power connectors (PCIe), does the HP have them?

Stephen

.

I've found that it usually takes at least 30 hours for invalids to be detected, so I plan to wait longer before deciding if the problem is fixed by almost shutting down all CPU workunits. I'm still getting suspicious spike results notices, still with no way to tell which SETI@home task they were from.

The computer with the 560 is an HP d5200t, with a 450W PSU. It took a few adapters to provide the two 6pin connectors - the PSU does not provide them directly. It still uses the original 3 GHz Q9650 CPU. I haven't found information on whether the CPU is soldered in place or in a socket. If it's in a socket, what other CPUs should work better in the same socket?

I've been careful not to order graphics boards listed as needing a PSU rated more than I have, except for a GTX 980 which is waiting for a new computer with a higher rated PSU.

My other computer has only a 300W PSU, so is that adequate for even trying the 560?

. . I'm glad that you are conservative. That delay you refer to is the lag between you completing a WU and your wingman doing the same. Many jobs are not validated until after much longer than 30 hours but most do not take so long. The fact that you have 43 validated tasks since the last invalid indicates a high validation rate within 24 hours and I feel that you have at least reduced the numbers of invalids.

. . A HP Core(2) Quad with a 450W PSU and an i7 with only a 300W PSU, that is the opposite of what I had imagined. And no, a 300W PSU is probably not sufficient for the GTX560, more's the pity, it would have been a good way to prove the issue to either the GPU itself of the HP rig it is in. Not sure where to go from here, it seems it would only be going over what has already been covered.

Stephen

. . Maybe one thing, you mentioned the adapters, I take it you are using two adapters getting power from 4 mollex connectors to feed the two six pin sockets on the GPU. Have you checked that they are not running hot? I have read about an issue where a bad connection in such an adapter caused it to overheat and melt the plastic. A bit scary. The reason you need two Mollex per 6pin is that the PCIe is rated at a higher current than the Mollex is. If you are using single Mollex to 6pin then resistance may be causing a voltage drop at that amperage. Just trying to think of anything that might cause problems.

Stephen

.

[snip]

. . I'm glad that you are conservative. That delay you refer to is the lag between you completing a WU and your wingman doing the same. Many jobs are not validated until after much longer than 30 hours but most do not take so long. The fact that you have 43 validated tasks since the last invalid indicates a high validation rate within 24 hours and I feel that you have at least reduced the numbers of invalids.

. . A HP Core(2) Quad with a 450W PSU and an i7 with only a 300W PSU, that is the opposite of what I had imagined. And no, a 300W PSU is probably not sufficient for the GTX560, more's the pity, it would have been a good way to prove the issue to either the GPU itself of the HP rig it is in. Not sure where to go from here, it seems it would only be going over what has already been covered.

Stephen

. . Maybe one thing, you mentioned the adapters, I take it you are using two adapters getting power from 4 mollex connectors to feed the two six pin sockets on the GPU. Have you checked that they are not running hot? I have read about an issue where a bad connection in such an adapter caused it to overheat and melt the plastic. A bit scary. The reason you need two Mollex per 6pin is that the PCIe is rated at a higher current than the Mollex is. If you are using single Mollex to 6pin then resistance may be causing a voltage drop at that amperage. Just trying to think of anything that might cause problems.

Stephen

.

The adapters are supplied from two separate Molexes. They are not melting the plastic. I'll check for overheating tomorrow. I'm using more than two adapters - the type needed to do it with fewer was not available.

. . Hi Jim,

. . Even if it has a 325W PSU it would be below the needs of a GTX560, it is a 150W TDP card. The 750ti's are only 60W cards. Nvidia specify a 450W PSU for the 560, in practice you might get away with 350W plus, but not less. How many PCIe connectors are in your HP box? There are none in my HP 8000 elite (but is is SFF and only has 240w PSU).

Stephen

.

NVidia's ratings are so conservative it's nuts. Add to that the fact that even in heavy duty crunching the cards seldom exceed 80% of TDP and there's a lot of headroom there. When you add together all the "worst case" ratings, the requirements end up totally out of proportion to reality.
The CMT has 2 x16 slots (second is only wired for x4) and 1 x1 slot. The way it's laid out the x16 slots are adjacent, so with dual slot GPUs only the x16 and x1 are usable. I use an x1 riser to support the second 750, as the 2.5gb vs. 5.0gb bus rate is irrelevant for what we're doing, especially now with SoG.
So, I'll never get a third GPU running in the CMT, too bad as I think the CPU would handle it well and there's probably enough room left on that 325w supply for a third 750.

. . OK I have the picture on your card setup. Personally I am too timid to use risers to access the other slots. But I was actually referring to external PCIe PSU connectors, the PSU in my 8000 has none, I was wondering how many you have. And I suspect the 750ti's crunching at full steam might be using 80% of TDP or a little more (my GTX950 is running at 85% TDP). So 3 x 60W at 80% is about 150W, considering PSUs are good for about 80% of their nominal value under sustained loads that mean 325W @ 80% less 150W for the 750ti's leaves just over 100W to run the C2Q and peripherals, I'd call that pushing the limits a bit :). My Pent-D rig with the 2 970s has a 650W PSU and is running at 450W +/- 30W crunching, it runs fairly warm and I would not want to push it very much harder. But I like being conservative.

Stephen

.


. .

The adapters are supplied from two separate Molexes. They are not melting the plastic. I'll check for overheating tomorrow. I'm using more than two adapters - the type needed to do it with fewer was not available.

. . Now I am confused, not sure what type of adapters you are using. But the main thing is they are there and not running hot :)

Stephen

.

. . OK I have the picture on your card setup. Personally I am too timid to use risers to access the other slots. But I was actually referring to external PCIe PSU connectors, the PSU in my 8000 has none, I was wondering how many you have. And I suspect the 750ti's crunching at full steam might be using 80% of TDP or a little more (my GTX950 is running at 85% TDP). So 3 x 60W at 80% is about 150W, considering PSUs are good for about 80% of their nominal value under sustained loads that mean 325W @ 80% less 150W for the 750ti's leaves just over 100W to run the C2Q and peripherals, I'd call that pushing the limits a bit :). My Pent-D rig with the 2 970s has a 650W PSU and is running at 450W +/- 30W crunching, it runs fairly warm and I would not want to push it very much harder. But I like being conservative.

Stephen

The EVGA 750tiSCs do not have an external power connector, they take what they need off the mobo (or, in the case of one using a riser, off a single Molex plugged into the riser card). That's one reason I really like that card and got so many. A PCIE slot is rated to supply 75w, so that's another place where I feel confident I'm not pushing the boundary any with this. At this point, the PS fan runs slowly, and the exhaust air doesn't even seem very warm, especially compared to the other boxes which tend to cook.
Interestingly enough, my other box in this class (Gigabyte mb, Xeon that's basically a C2Q, and 3x GTX750tiSCs, keeps its OCX 700w ps blowing pretty warm air. Makes me wonder just how over-rated that OCX ps is, and/or how under-rated this HP PS is.
As far as I can remember, the 8000CMT PS does not have any PCIE power connectors, too old for that.
I think we drifted a bit OT here. Sorry, ...

---

Worth to check if GPU has any visual artefacts on GPU tests.
Maybe some issues with GPU memory chip.

---

SETI apps news
We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them.

Has anyone seen this showing up on the notices tab before? It has happened a couple of times, but I can find no other info on it. Everything is running nicely and all of a sudden this pops up. It would be nice to at least see what task was causing the problem.

SETI@home: Notice from BOINC
Task postponed: CL file build failure
09/15/2016 23:59:21

This is what is in the event log --

09/15/2016 23:59:21 | SETI@home | task postponed 30.000000 sec:
09/15/2016 23:59:21 | SETI@home | task postponed 30.000000 sec:
09/15/2016 23:59:21 | SETI@home | Task postponed: CL file build failure

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!

09/15/2016 23:59:21 | SETI@home | Task postponed: CL file build failure

Which machine/project was this on?

There is a known problem with r3525 (only), but

1) That was only ever released (briefly) at the SETI Beta project, and has never been released to the main project, or via a Lunatics Installer, beta or otherwise.

2) The problem was confined to GTX 6xx and earlier GPUs: the only machine you have attached to the Main project (here) has dual GTX 750Ti GPUs, which should be unaffected by this problem.

So, more details, please.

09/15/2016 23:59:21 | SETI@home | Task postponed: CL file build failure

Which machine/project was this on?

There is a known problem with r3525 (only), but

1) That was only ever released (briefly) at the SETI Beta project, and has never been released to the main project, or via a Lunatics Installer, beta or otherwise.

2) The problem was confined to GTX 6xx and earlier GPUs: the only machine you have attached to the Main project (here) has dual GTX 750Ti GPUs, which should be unaffected by this problem.

So, more details, please.

Hi Richard,

This is happening on SETI main on my 4770K, Win 7 x(64) machine, 2 x GTX750Ti @ 2Gb each, running Lunatics 0.45 beta -4 opencl_nivida_SoG (r3500). GPUs are running 3 tasks each at .5 CPU for each task.

cmd_line.txt (-use_sleep -sbs 512 -spike_fft_thresh 4096 -tune 1 64 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 64 -oclfft_tune_cw 64 -hp)

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!

09/15/2016 23:59:21 | SETI@home | Task postponed: CL file build failure

Which machine/project was this on?

There is a known problem with r3525 (only), but

1) That was only ever released (briefly) at the SETI Beta project, and has never been released to the main project, or via a Lunatics Installer, beta or otherwise.

2) The problem was confined to GTX 6xx and earlier GPUs: the only machine you have attached to the Main project (here) has dual GTX 750Ti GPUs, which should be unaffected by this problem.

So, more details, please.

Hi Richard,

This is happening on SETI main on my 4770K, Win 7 x(64) machine, 2 x GTX750Ti @ 2Gb each, running Lunatics 0.45 beta -4 opencl_nivida_SoG (r3500). GPUs are running 3 tasks each at .5 CPU for each task.

cmd_line.txt (-use_sleep -sbs 512 -spike_fft_thresh 4096 -tune 1 64 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 64 -oclfft_tune_cw 64 -hp)

Hi Cliff you need to change to

-use_sleep -sbs 512 -spike_fft_thresh 2048 -tune 1 32 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 32 -oclfft_tune_cw 32 -hp

Maybe to remove -hp is another thing you should try.

---

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

Hi Cliff you need to change to

-use_sleep -sbs 512 -spike_fft_thresh 2048 -tune 1 32 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 32 -oclfft_tune_cw 32 -hp

Maybe to remove -hp is another thing you should try.

Will try the new settings including removing the -hp and will get back to you.

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!

Hi Cliff you need to change to

-use_sleep -sbs 512 -spike_fft_thresh 2048 -tune 1 32 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 32 -oclfft_tune_cw 32 -hp

Maybe to remove -hp is another thing you should try.

Will try the new settings including removing the -hp and will get back to you.

Cliff, thanks for providing the host and application details.

One thing that's still perplexing me: how long ago did you deploy r3500, and did the build error message start immediately? My understanding is that the 'CL file build' process only has to happen once, the first time the application is run. Looking at my own machine, I have an r3500 BIN file dated 02 September, and an r3528 BIN file dated 11 September - no sign of any rebuilding since then. So I was wondering what might have triggered these new messages?

Hi Cliff you need to change to

-use_sleep -sbs 512 -spike_fft_thresh 2048 -tune 1 32 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 32 -oclfft_tune_cw 32 -hp

Maybe to remove -hp is another thing you should try.

Will try the new settings including removing the -hp and will get back to you.

Cliff, thanks for providing the host and application details.

One thing that's still perplexing me: how long ago did you deploy r3500, and did the build error message start immediately? My understanding is that the 'CL file build' process only has to happen once, the first time the application is run. Looking at my own machine, I have an r3500 BIN file dated 02 September, and an r3528 BIN file dated 11 September - no sign of any rebuilding since then. So I was wondering what might have triggered these new messages?

R3500 was first deployed on 15 August. It ran for a couple of weeks with the cmd_file.txt supplied above before it first showed up, but I didn't pay that close attention to it. It happened once or twice after that, but when it showed up last night, I decided to report it. What is r3528, and does it have anything to do with CUDA, as I don't run them?

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!

but when it showed up last night, I decided to report it

Next time record (Copy/Paste) also the task name so we can search for it and look at stderr

What is r3528

The same "thing" as r3500 but newer

---

 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 

but when it showed up last night, I decided to report it

Next time record (Copy/Paste) also the task name so we can search for it and look at stderr

What is r3528

The same "thing" as r3500 but newer

Can't copy/paste what isn't there, as there is no indication what task was involved. I noticed the error message in the notice tab this morning, by then the suspected task was already gone. Will r3528 come out in beta -5 or do I need to do a stand-alone install?

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!