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Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Why odd? The police are a form of regulators, yet you argue that regulators should have no ability to restrict freedom. Yet that is exactly what the police does, they limit peoples freedom. As you need speeding limits, so you need certain limits in other areas as well. Thats why you have regulators. This is not a silly ALL OR NOTHING Discussion. And that is why you have bureaucracy. It is one of the ways in which we impose limits on what the police can and cannot do. It supports the laws that limit what the police can do and it helps them become accountable to us, the people. That is why the government is supported and at the same time shackled by a bureaucracy. It limits what a government can do, and it documents everything, making it technically possible to trace back everything the government ever does. In other words, accountability. To the people. So whats your problem with bureaucracy? Its one of the ways in which government is held in check. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
So whats your problem with bureaucracy? Its one of the ways in which government is held in check. The question is not adressed to me but I must give an answer to this. Bureaucracy are governed by the government. It protects the government. Have you Heard of Parkinson's law? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law And its expensive. EU Bureaucracy for instance... (Bureau Crazy) |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Bureaucracy are governed by the government. No, not exactly. A government can be divided in roughly two parts. The first is the elected part, so all the elected representatives. The second part is the unelected but permanent part. These are the bureaucrats working at all the different departments. And these two parts frequently clash. There is tons of research about this, but to put it shortly, the bureaucrats and elected officials often don't see exactly eye to eye, and bureaucrats wield, in their own way, a degree of power. It is a mistake to see 'the government' as a single entity. Its composed of numerous smaller entities that all have their own agenda and preferences and very often they do not even pursue the same goals. But because of that, it works pretty effective as a leash. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
A man who LOVES George Carlin can't be bad:) Clyde issues personal attacks without realizing he is guilty of doing what he calls others out on. I, on the other hand, am fully aware of my humorous zany remarks and how he misconstrues them for attacks. Many here have had trouble with my zany remarks, but, when they read enough, they understand where I am coming from. Some of us could be friends. I have won many over. I do not expect Clyde will be one of these and I will not put out excessive effort to do so. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Bureaucracy are governed by the government. Yes, Prime Minister:) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8keZbZL2ero |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
A man who LOVES George Carlin can't be bad:) boring... "I have won many over." Is it a war here? In Ukraina, Gaza and Syria... Yes. But here... |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
his continuous Hijacking of this discussion. Clyde, that's nuts, Sarge by definition can't hijack his own thread. |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
When Looking This GOoD, One Don't Need No Socialism May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
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Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Why stop at two? Why not split Government into more parts. Because the distinction I make here is binary. You are either voted in or your not. There is no third alternative. And to be sure, like I said, the bit that doesn't get voted in is divided in all kinds of departments and sub-departments so it is already divided into a lot of smaller parts. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Europe and US governments are different. Мишель Michel In Holland First part is the elected Second part is the unelected but permanent Clyde in USA Senate is the elected by electors from 50 states. Congress is the elected from ? Third part is the unelected but permanent part? (I am not sure about that.) |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
The bureaucracy prevents sudden changes in the direction a country/union can move based on the whims of the elected powers in office. I think you are wrong. It is a nations constitution who regulate this moderation. The bureaucracy have to follow that law and the government as well. It is the government who are trying change the constitution. Luckily we have elections every 4 years to deal with this type of actions |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Europe and US governments are different. No they are not that different. I grouped in both cases all the elected members together as one group, even though they are spread out of several institutions. The second group is everyone who works on a government ministry or department. IE the people that work for the government but aren't elected to their office. I'm sorry, but you missed my point entirely. I think you are wrong. Who says that the two can't coexist? A constitution sets out the broad principles to which the government has to abide, but a constitution doesn't cover every aspect of government policies, nor does it say much about the day to day operations of the government. Thats where bureaucrats come in. |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Who says that the two can't coexist? A constitution sets out the broad principles to which the government has to abide, but a constitution doesn't cover every aspect of government policies, nor does it say much about the day to day operations of the government. Thats where bureaucrats come in. Michel You are banging on open doors. Bureaucrats are not elected. They work for any administration, left or right or neo-nazi. As long they are paid they are happy. Thats why I posted the sketch 'Yes, Prime Minister' from BBC And '297902' Stability? 'This provides Stability and in the long run saves resources from being squandered through erratic changes in policy'. Look at Russia and Ukraina. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Return to topic. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
While I await a response to my long post and we wait for Dena to return, or just in general a return to topic, would anyone like to know of a little "experiment" I ran within a year of taking the course I described and why the results lead me to beileve there's a problem with socialism others do not mention? Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Return to topic. If you wish, I can certainly rename the thread. Since Dena has indeed joined in, that invitation is no longer needed. As my response to betreger points out, we should not focus on a "definition" so much as getting straight what Marx said. As I've been trying to say, if socialism is an enemy, one must know the enemy, not what some radio/TV host tells us about the enemy. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
While I await a response to my long post and we wait for Dena to return, or just in general a return to topic, would anyone like to know of a little "experiment" I ran within a year of taking the course I described and why the results lead me to beileve there's a problem with socialism others do not mention? I am not entirely sure it is fair to signal one poster out in a thread title. A more descriptive title might be better. Reality Internet Personality |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Es, but, it was meant as an invitation to one person at first. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Posting to re-title. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. |
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