An inch is still an inch. Add many inches and we get a mile. Reality works the same way. You start with a absolute, the inch to divine the mile.

An inch was originally a ratio of the gap between two marks on a platinum/iridium bar somewhere in the standards vault probably in France. as 25.4 millimeters an abstraction that relates to the approximate distance of the Earth at the equator to the pole. An abstraction to my mind as representing the concept of length. Only real in the sense of the accuracy to which you can measure it.

it is now so many wavelengths of a cesium laser.

On a related topic : Does it bother you that the hyper reals are causing problems in physics .

No, it pleases me to no end.

Yes, it is best to think of zero as the only infinitesimal real number. [smile] It is but the starting place. [smile, once again.]

We set some absolutes, the inch for example. We all find it tangible. Other absoultes are not set by us.

Nevertheless, without tangible absolutes we do not have reality that we all can participate in. We all have a reality of our own--of our own, we all have a reality that we all live in and birth and death is part of that reality we all live with and understand.

To say that there is not such thing as reality is a fallacy created by math and indeed part of the faith of Neo-Darwinism.

Would you give the standard price of one ounce of gold to 9% pure gold? Would you give full price to 99% pure gold? Would you give the set price for 100% pure gold? The standard absolute has been set and accepted to be reality for us all.

Do I believe in Hyperreal Numbers? Yes, I believe in less then zero. As I said zero is just a starting place. But at the sametime I do believe in absloutes. Then you say ..."But then you believe in less then real.", I do believe in less then real. 9% pure gold is worth less then 99% real gold. A 9% chance of you having a inside stright is better for me then a 99% chance of you having a inside stright if I hold 3 aces.

To say that there is not such thing as reality is a fallacy created by math and indeed part of the faith of Neo-Darwinism.

I don't think anyone here has asserted that there is no such thing as reality. What has been discussed is trying to figure out what reality is, and it isn't as simple as "an inch is an inch" or "I think therefore I am".

To say that there is not such thing as reality is a fallacy created by math and indeed part of the faith of Neo-Darwinism.

I don't think anyone here has asserted that there is no such thing as reality. What has been discussed is trying to figure out what reality is, and it isn't as simple as "an inch is an inch" or "I think therefore I am".

But it is, it is that simple. There is real and then there is less then real.

An inch was originally a ratio of the gap between two marks on a platinum/iridium bar somewhere in the standards vault probably in France. as 25.4 millimeters an abstraction that relates to the approximate distance of the Earth at the equator to the pole. An abstraction to my mind as representing the concept of length. Only real in the sense of the accuracy to which you can measure it.

it is now so many wavelengths of a cesium laser.

On a related topic : Does it bother you that the hyper reals are causing problems in physics .

A metre is defined as 1/"speed of light" in a vacuum, but we only know the speed of light to within 0.1nm. So acctually we do not know the exact length of a metre and by abstraction the exact measurement of an inch.

And surely zero just represents the absence of any other number. Or somewhere between -1 and +1, as on a thermometer. And can one rely on that being stable, we used to check the calibration of mercury thermometers using the triple point of water, but I now see that doesn't occur at 0 deg C it is at 0.1 deg C.

Things just keep changing as time goes along and we learn more and more.

To say that there is not such thing as reality is a fallacy created by math and indeed part of the faith of Neo-Darwinism.

I don't think anyone here has asserted that there is no such thing as reality. What has been discussed is trying to figure out what reality is, and it isn't as simple as "an inch is an inch" or "I think therefore I am".

But it is, it is that simple. There is real and then there is less then real.

We might be starting to get somewhere. An inch isn't real, it's a human construct, an abstraction. The best current approximation is that "real" exists in 4 dimensional spacetime. Neo-Darwinsism provides the best current approximation of processes that take place on a subset of the real.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Who is we? Got a mouse in your pocket?

Interesting.

But nevertheless people hold a ruler in their hand and divine length of something.

And you ignore the reality of birth and death, which is also a tangible absoulte.

Reality is real.

There is no .999 of death, you're 100% dead or you're 100% alive.

And don't forget that over the years the "definition" of "dead" has changed, as has the point at which medical intervention can revive a person, and that person can resume a very normal life. I speak as one who fifty or sixty years ago would probably have been declared "dead" a couple of years ago, but, by virtue of medical interventions I am alive, and actually have a significantly better level of health than I had enjoyed for a good few years....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

To say that there is not such thing as reality is a fallacy created by math and indeed part of the faith of Neo-Darwinism.

I don't think anyone here has asserted that there is no such thing as reality. What has been discussed is trying to figure out what reality is, and it isn't as simple as "an inch is an inch" or "I think therefore I am".

But it is, it is that simple. There is real and then there is less then real.

Only to a simpleton. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that...

There is no .999 of death, you're 100% dead or you're 100% alive.

I think that families of patients that are clinically brain dead, and have to make the decision to turn off their life support systems might disagree with you.

Hi :)
Don't forget those who were clinically dead and came back to life, so to speak.
Some after minutes and minutes of no oxygen to the brain.

You all appear to be able to dodge the issue. Now address the issue.

You are born then you die. This is reality a tangible absolute.

You have not dismissed the issue you have avoided it.

As I said...

People are born and then they die (quantified variables, a tangible absolute). First-order logic. It is the act of counting and measuring that maps human sense of what we see, taste, feel, and this translates into experiences into members of some set.


Platonism of some sort I do believe in.

The square of any nonzero number is nonzero.

[smile]...if one assumes the continuum hypothesis.

To say that there is not such thing as reality is a fallacy created by math and indeed part of the faith of Neo-Darwinism.

I don't think anyone here has asserted that there is no such thing as reality. What has been discussed is trying to figure out what reality is, and it isn't as simple as "an inch is an inch" or "I think therefore I am".

I have said before that perception is reality. Reality is real, as you perceive it.

And some have a tenuous grasp on those perceptions.

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Janice

To say that there is not such thing as reality is a fallacy created by math and indeed part of the faith of Neo-Darwinism.

I don't think anyone here has asserted that there is no such thing as reality. What has been discussed is trying to figure out what reality is, and it isn't as simple as "an inch is an inch" or "I think therefore I am".

I have said before that perception is reality. Reality is real, as you perceive it.

And some have a tenuous grasp on those perceptions.

And it would seem you have a tenuous grasp of it. We all perceive somethings the same way. A blue sky [I know about color blind people], the feeling of wet, the need of food and water, the feeling of love.

Neo-Darwinism, tells us that is all chance and not real. And that perception is reality, if not real then how can we all have the very same perception of not just one thing but many things.

William Rothamel asked me about hyperreals and if it bothered me that they are causeing a fit in physics. I am tempted to ask him what Newton would do. [smile] I have however answered his question.

You all have yet to answer mine. Is birth and death, and what happens inbetween, a tangible absolute that we all have the very same perception of? If so what does that tell us about hyperreals and first order logic?

You are born then you die. This is reality a tangible absolute.

The Tens of Millions Dead and Mutilated in World War II are Absolute Proof.

And Tens of Millions Dead and Mutilated Before and After World War II.

Memorial Day 2012. Just Another Day in The Continuation of Tens Of Millions of Deaths and Mutilations, by The Hands Of Humans and Condoned and Sanctioned by GOD Almighty.

ProvedAbsolutelyDullNanDO

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

...Condoned and Sanctioned by GOD Almighty.

If selfdefence then yes. If not, Condoned and Sanctioned by man and thats all.

To say that there is not such thing as reality is a fallacy created by math and indeed part of the faith of Neo-Darwinism.

I don't think anyone here has asserted that there is no such thing as reality. What has been discussed is trying to figure out what reality is, and it isn't as simple as "an inch is an inch" or "I think therefore I am".

I have said before that perception is reality. Reality is real, as you perceive it.

And some have a tenuous grasp on those perceptions.

And it would seem you have a tenuous grasp of it. We all perceive somethings the same way. A blue sky [I know about color blind people], the feeling of wet, the need of food and water, the feeling of love.

Neo-Darwinism, tells us that is all chance and not real. And that perception is reality, if not real then how can we all have the very same perception of not just one thing but many things.

William Rothamel asked me about hyperreals and if it bothered me that they are causeing a fit in physics. I am tempted to ask him what Newton would do. [smile] I have however answered his question.

You all have yet to answer mine. Is birth and death, and what happens inbetween, a tangible absolute that we all have the very same perception of? If so what does that tell us about hyperreals and first order logic?

I answered. It is if you perceive it to be.

We do not all perceive the same color of the sky, the same images in clouds, indeed your perception of what is science and what is not is far different than most of the peoples here. You perceive god as tangible, I perceive her as an abstract.

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Janice

Is birth and death, and what happens inbetween, a tangible absolute that we all have the very same perception of? If so what does that tell us about hyperreals and first order logic?