Bobby,

Not exactly. The unit for natural selection is the individual. The individual makes choices, genes do not. But yes, I am arguing that social institutions are derived from individual choices and preferences that themselves derive from successful adaptation and are a result of the evolutionary process through natural selection.

Also see last post. Think I know where you might be going with sterility… Similarly, celibacy may also prove a good adaptive choice for a population although for an individual it seems counter intuitive.

Obviously sterility would be anathema to most religious systems, but my points are not limited to natural selection, as stated it one aspect of natural law. You may have an interesting angle here…

ID,

None taken. If your comments were towards my banter, I am not arguing for gay marriage.

ID,

None taken. If your comments were towards my banter, I am not arguing for gay marriage.

CMPO,

Yes it was. Yes, I knew that. Thank you for your imput. Much appreciated, once again Im grateful for any help that comes my way. [smile]

ID,

None taken. If your comments were towards my banter, I am not arguing for gay marriage.

CMPO,

Yes it was. Yes, I knew that. Thank you for your imput. Much appreciated, once again Im grateful for any help that comes my way. [smile]

Not wishing to speak for CMPO here, though your assumption that s/he is supporting you is not borne out by CMPO's statement that s/he is not arguing for same sex marriages, s/he did not state that s/he was arguing against them.

I say this to highlight that your 0/1 view of the world is at best an over simplification, and, more likely, an insult to the intelligence of those who would like to have a sensible conversation.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Alot of what you have said is off topic.

I have quoted the Bible once, to Guy. I have not to my reckoning quoted it again. If you can find where I have quoted the Bible over and over again please let me know.

Every link I have posted was right on topic.

The above set aside...

What is on topic is you saying you can provide Bible quotes allowing Gay Marriage. THIS I GOT TO SEE. THAT would be on topic. I'll warn you just as I have the other. There are no quotes in the Bible. The Roman and Slave Boy story you will find the same problem, the word Eros is not used.

You said many interpretations of the Bible are out in the public. Yes, that would be true. I have no problem with my Protestant brothers and sisters. I have a probem with them when they do not know how or where to apply the word Eros. The Text has remained the same. The Preacher could be the problem, don't cha think?

As you can see I have given you no link, or quote from the Bible.

Be forewarned also, I'll ask for the retraction.

Not that it matters for the argument of gay marriage (to me anyways as I do not follow a bible).. And I don't know in what way the Bible sets the laws around here.
But if I have the time I may look into that... And I'd be looking at older writings than you would. Maybe I'll make it a side project, but I have enough of those that don't pay the bills...
I'll see what I can do.

Edit] ;-) I found where the bible says gay is ok, actually it says a whole lot about what is ok...:

Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself.

---

#resist

Dave, one of the prayers in the Amida (Jewish standing prayers -- 18 of them) said in each service, is pretty aggressive about the response to heretical people -- it is one I expressly do NOT say during the service. My wife says it but interprets it 'creatively' as it were.

Dave, from what I understand, much in the New Testament includes a sort of 'undo' command for some the writings found in the Old Testament (Tenach) -- which, some might argue is a new form of ID being used to suggest the original ID was UID (Unintelligent).

So for a new form of ID we simply need to establish a NIT (New Improved Testament) which would include special Wisdom Incultated to the Throngs. It would called... wait for it..... NITWIT.

ad hominem ad infinitum...

When you have nothing for the argument the attempt is made at changing the subject and humor ro ease the pain of loosing.

+4

Actually I find you often have nothing for the argument, especially when confronted with the fact that your bible is full of conflicting ideas. If you just for a little while, look past your beliefs and perhaps bible passages that you are familiar with, you may begin to see that every other verse conflicts with your idea of your religion.

Whenever anyone mentions these conflicts in the bible, you are the one that changes the subject, without considering that your bible is totally open to interpretation and nothing may really be as "black and white" as you seem to think.

You can take any bible quote and use it to display your ideas. But what you can't seem to accept is that WE could also pick bible quotes to display our ideas.
You can say "god said thou shall not be a butt pirate". But If I had time and nothing better to do I could find several quotes that say "it's ok to be a butt pirate"... Catch my drift here. Just sayin. (I apologize for my paraphrase, but as someone who has several (very) gay friends, I am allowed to make light of the issue.)

But only your take on the bible is the correct one. I guess.

ID, I see you being asked direct simple questions all the time, and instead of giving a "yes" or "no" or "I agree" or "I don't agree(and this is why)", you typically avoid the direct questions altogether and come back by quoting some article or scripture. Which is a perfect example of having "nothing for the argument".

ID, can you at least agree there is more than one interpretation of the Bible?
(before you answer that, don't forget that there is a ton of different makings of the "Bible")

Alot of what you have said is off topic.

I have quoted the Bible once, to Guy. I have not to my reckoning quoted it again. If you can find where I have quoted the Bible over and over again please let me know.

Every link I have posted was right on topic.

The above set aside...

What is on topic is you saying you can provide Bible quotes allowing Gay Marriage. THIS I GOT TO SEE. THAT would be on topic. I'll warn you just as I have the other. There are no quotes in the Bible. The Roman and Slave Boy story you will find the same problem, the word Eros is not used.

You said many interpretations of the Bible are out in the public. Yes, that would be true. I have no problem with my Protestant brothers and sisters. I have a probem with them when they do not know how or where to apply the word Eros. The Text has remained the same. The Preacher could be the problem, don't cha think?

As you can see I have given you no link, or quote from the Bible.

Be forewarned also, I'll ask for the retraction.

Please stop asking for a retraction. This is not a news story in the paper. This is the opinion page. Where you have your say and others have their say. Just because you have faith in your beliefs dose'nt make your opinion true, or the only world view. It is just your point of veiw. Just my point of view as a poster.

---

[/quote]

Old James

ID,

None taken. If your comments were towards my banter, I am not arguing for gay marriage.

CMPO,

Yes it was. Yes, I knew that. Thank you for your imput. Much appreciated, once again Im grateful for any help that comes my way. [smile]

Not wishing to speak for CMPO here, though your assumption that s/he is supporting you is not borne out by CMPO's statement that s/he is not arguing for same sex marriages, s/he did not state that s/he was arguing against them.

I say this to highlight that your 0/1 view of the world is at best an over simplification, and, more likely, an insult to the intelligence of those who would like to have a sensible conversation.

In place of dancing around the subject, Idiot, just ask outright.

Edit] ;-) I found where the bible says gay is ok, actually it says a whole lot about what is ok...:
Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself.

Full quote not just a line. Chapter verse and line. Then I'll take you the Greek.

You are quite the ignorant fool.

As I said, eros is not in the Bible.

Edit] ;-) I found where the bible says gay is ok, actually it says a whole lot about what is ok...:
Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself.

Full quote not just a line. Chapter verse and line. Then I'll take you the Greek.

You are quite the ignorant fool.

As I said, eros is not in the Bible.

now we have the pot calling the kettle black.

About the only thing said about homosexuality is in the old testament and dealt with Lot his wife and children. It goes into great detail what is unacceptable behavior. Man on man sex= bad. Group sex = bad woman on woman= not mentioned.
I recall hearing or reading that its not being a homosexual that is impure it is the act of homosexuality. This makes it more interesting

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Edit] ;-) I found where the bible says gay is ok, actually it says a whole lot about what is ok...:
Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself.

Full quote not just a line. Chapter verse and line. Then I'll take you the Greek.

You are quite the ignorant fool.

As I said, eros is not in the Bible.

All you can prove is that eros is not in the version of the bible that has been found.

How many times was it changed from the original script to the version you know about.

As we all know the Roman Catholic church has used a lot of extreme measures to suppress and change items it finds do not fit in with their version of events.

ID,

None taken. If your comments were towards my banter, I am not arguing for gay marriage.

CMPO,

Yes it was. Yes, I knew that. Thank you for your imput. Much appreciated, once again Im grateful for any help that comes my way. [smile]

Not wishing to speak for CMPO here, though your assumption that s/he is supporting you is not borne out by CMPO's statement that s/he is not arguing for same sex marriages, s/he did not state that s/he was arguing against them.

I say this to highlight that your 0/1 view of the world is at best an over simplification, and, more likely, an insult to the intelligence of those who would like to have a sensible conversation.

In place of dancing around the subject, Idiot, just ask outright.

Your presumption, your place to confirm. Dividing the world into those with you and those against you alienates the undecideds. It seems to me the undecideds are a group that both sides are attempting to convince, and alienating them is an idiotic move.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Edit] ;-) I found where the bible says gay is ok, actually it says a whole lot about what is ok...:
Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself.

Full quote not just a line. Chapter verse and line. Then I'll take you the Greek.

You are quite the ignorant fool.

As I said, eros is not in the Bible.

now we have the pot calling the kettle black.

About the only thing said about homosexuality is in the old testament and dealt with Lot his wife and children. It goes into great detail what is unacceptable behavior. Man on man sex= bad. Group sex = bad woman on woman= not mentioned.
I recall hearing or reading that its not being a homosexual that is impure it is the act of homosexuality. This makes it more interesting

Which in my thoughts goes right back to what CMPO had to say about being gay and not acting on being gay. Not that I believe that someone is born gay. It's a life choice to me because no one can prove otherwise.

The Old Test does deal with woman on woman sex. Im not going to bother pointing out chapter and verse.

Alot of what you have said is off topic.

I have quoted the Bible once, to Guy. I have not to my reckoning quoted it again. If you can find where I have quoted the Bible over and over again please let me know.

Every link I have posted was right on topic.

The above set aside...

What is on topic is you saying you can provide Bible quotes allowing Gay Marriage. THIS I GOT TO SEE. THAT would be on topic. I'll warn you just as I have the other. There are no quotes in the Bible. The Roman and Slave Boy story you will find the same problem, the word Eros is not used.

You said many interpretations of the Bible are out in the public. Yes, that would be true. I have no problem with my Protestant brothers and sisters. I have a probem with them when they do not know how or where to apply the word Eros. The Text has remained the same. The Preacher could be the problem, don't cha think?

As you can see I have given you no link, or quote from the Bible.

Be forewarned also, I'll ask for the retraction.

Not that it matters for the argument of gay marriage (to me anyways as I do not follow a bible).. And I don't know in what way the Bible sets the laws around here.
But if I have the time I may look into that... And I'd be looking at older writings than you would. Maybe I'll make it a side project, but I have enough of those that don't pay the bills...
I'll see what I can do.

Edit] ;-) I found where the bible says gay is ok, actually it says a whole lot about what is ok...:

Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself.

Through the Looking Glass, by Lewis Carroll wrote:
'To be sure I was!' Humpty Dumpty said gaily as she turned it round for him. 'I thought it looked a little queer. As I was saying, that seems to be done right — though I haven't time to look it over thoroughly just now — and that shows that there are three hundred and sixty-four days when you might get un-birthday presents —'

'Certainly,' said Alice.

'And only one for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'

'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

There is something a bit disturbing about quoting a known child molestor to link to a "do not be gay" verse...

I keep thinking of something about taking the log out of your own eye before taking the speck out of your neighbors... Judge not lest you be judged..
ahh the irony.

Of course I can not prove that someone is not Napolean Bonapart either.
Especially to people who do not believe in science or history.

---

Janice

Which in my thoughts goes right back to what CMPO had to say about being gay and not acting on being gay. Not that I believe that someone is born gay. It's a life choice to me because no one can prove otherwise.

Why does it make any difference whether it's a "life[style?] choice" or being "born gay", or a combination of the two?

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

There is something a bit disturbing about quoting a known child molestor to link to a "do not be gay" verse...

I keep thinking of something about taking the log out of your own eye before taking the speck out of your neighbors... Judge not lest you be judged..
ahh the irony.

Of course I can not prove that someone is not Napolean Bonapart either.
Especially to people who do not believe in science or history.

You should pull the tree from yours.

Which in my thoughts goes right back to what CMPO had to say about being gay and not acting on being gay. Not that I believe that someone is born gay. It's a life choice to me because no one can prove otherwise.

Why does it make any difference whether it's a "life[style?] choice" or being "born gay", or a combination of the two?

[snicker] Ummmm, design.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

The penny drops, you use Humpty Dumpty as a role model for mastery of the English language.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...