> > Use the BOINC Owner's Manual's Index and you can find it easy ... :)
> >
> > But, for those that can't ... :)
> >
> > Look <a>
> href="http://homepage.mac.com/pauldbuck/site-boinc/oman-app/app-screen-saver-old-sah.html">here[/url]
> >
>
> Thanks Paul. I went to your site and followed all of your instructions,
> however my graphics are still 3-D and rotating crazily as before. I tried
> updating several times, and even created separate home preferences, to no
> avail. I sometimes previously enjoyed watching the 2-D graphics, but like
> Rookie, now I don't look at the graphics anymore.

Rats! Well, from here at my Daughter's house I can't do more... It looks like we have more problems with the graphics again ... :(

> > Nevermind. Upon starting the next WU, the changes took effect.
> Thanks again. Your "manual" is great, and I appreciate all the work you've
> put into it for us.

You are welcome. :)

I have been noticing my page counters are going up nicely, so I am getting some readers ... way cool! :)

We are comming down to the end of my vacation in sunny Connecticut, though I won't be back on-line till mid-December (I leave here about the 2nd and home about the 10th).

Then I can't get back to work adding and revising. That is the problem with moving targets ...

---

Mine is set to off aswell. I have had it that way for years now. I only see the seti screen saver when I manually click on a running WU and click on display graphics... Which I sometimes feel like doing.

---

I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not superman!

> > All you have to to is go into your seti preferences, select custom
> graphics
> > and set the vertical and horizontal rotation to zero.
>
> That's a nice way of customizing 3-D graphics. It doesn't give us 2-D
> graphics. On older hardware, the new display is not as nice as the old
> graphics, IMO.
>
> ID: 48129 / Rating: -3 - rate: + / -

-3 for pointing out that configuring 3-D graphics not to rotate doesn't give you 2-D graphics? ROTFLMAO!

---

I think they listened to you guys. I was looking in the Prefs and a new option is SETI Classic. I just used the "Owners manual" for my settings to see then i will change it when I get it gets a chance to login to the server.

---

I will have to agree that the old Seti 2D graphics are much better than what the BOINC client can dish out. In a two words all I can say about the BOINC 3D graphics is that it ROYALLY SUCKS!

Pardon my bluntness and no offense to the designer of the BOINC client graphics but the old Seti 2D graphics are MUCH better. That's my .02 cents.

---

<img border="0" height="70" src="http://119979.sah.sig.boinc.dk?133"></a>

seti classic is the default, it makes a 3-D rotating version of the seti classic picture. Which is the one we are complaining about ;p...

---

I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not superman!

Well, i can't speak for anyone else but the new 4.08 version of SETI has fixed the graphics problem i now have a stationary screensaver and the total credit obtained so far is now being displayed again.


i find that running the benchmark option after using the update tab seems to help sometimes (but not always), maybe that would help some of you.

---

oh its working alright, it no longer rotates. It was just a matter of waiting for the next work unit to begin for it to start using the new screensaver settings (and that was ALL in 4.08.. no 4.07 at all)

Its just a waste of system resources to render it in 3D instead of 2D... AND it looks worse then the old 2D graphics.

Alot of games do the same, they move on to 3D graphics, where usually the new 3d graphics look WORSE then 2D graphics. Take Kohan for example. Kohan 2 is 3D... looks much worse then Kohan 1 and its exansion which were 2D.

---

I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not superman!

> Its just a waste of system resources to render it in 3D instead of 2D... AND
> it looks worse then the old 2D graphics.

A few things to keep in mind here:
1) One major problem with the classic graphics was that since they didn't move, it didn't really make for a very good screen saver. I remember several reports of seti@home being burnt into a monitor. In that regard the rotation is a good thing.
2) The new 3D graphics are rendered by your GPU, not the CPU so they probably take up less CPU cycles than the old 2D ones used to. I don't have actual numbers to back that claim up for seti but I know that the climateprediction.net graphics take up very little CPU time on my system.
3) If you are worried about system resources you shouldn't be looking at the graphics in the first place :)

I'm not saying your thoughts on the subject are totally crazy but there are a few other things to consider on some of your arguments.

> Alot of games do the same, they move on to 3D graphics, where usually the new
> 3d graphics look WORSE then 2D graphics. Take Kohan for example. Kohan 2 is
> 3D... looks much worse then Kohan 1 and its exansion which were 2D.

Sure but HL2 rocks in all its 3D glory! :)

---

A member of The Knights Who Say NI!
For rankings, history graphs and more, check out:
My BOINC stats site

HOW ABOUT A BIT OF GENTLE PERSUASION ?


It seems theres a lot of dispute over the graphics! But the majority seem to like the old classic 2D.

The old graphics were much easier for those of us who actually take an interest in the data and analysis patterns (ie those of us like myself, im a radiocommunications engineer by trade). Since these graphics were done for the old client, and the new one is meant to be so much better, then i see no reason that they shouldnt be available to those of us that want them, other than it being a little extra work for the programmers.

Why dont we vote on it with a friendly petition? If you want the old graphics with BOINC exactly like on classic, just reply with 'yes i want the old graphics' as your message,

if you dont, then dont!

That way the moderators and programmers can see just how many people want them! and should then be swayed by popular opinion, after all, were the ones crunching the numbers, shouldnt we have a say in how we do it?

Also, does anyone know how to get the seti plug in for starry night running again once BOINC is running?

---

_________________________________

Dont Bother Trying To Engage My Enthusiasm...Because I Havent Got One

Yes I want the old graphics...

As for the old graphics being burnt into the monitor.... Almost any monitor made after about 1995 didnt really need a screensaver anymore. Screensavers are obsolete. It was good in the old days, to prevent images burning into the monitor... then they came up with the amazing invention of... dum dum dum... having the monitor turn off the display after X minnutes. Which is what any sensible person does anyways.

Keep in mind that we arent saying get rid of ALL other graphics, just request an option for the old graphics. Those who have ancient monitors are free to use the 3D ones (who is gonna have a computer able to do 3D with a monitor so old it needs a screensaver?)

---

I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not superman!

> Its just a waste of system resources to render it in 3D instead of 2D

Way off there.

Try running the classic 2d version with the screensaver visible all day, then run the 3d version with the graphics all day.

I know that the 2d version was what got me to run the client version in the first place due to how demanding it was on the CPU. Ran at least 4 times slower with the screensaver going.

Meanwhile the 3d version is offloaded to the GPU having minimal impact on system resouces.

---

BOINC WIKI
Overclockers.com's Forum

a simple question to THINK
how many peoples drive a car that is older than 20 years ?
look
i have an old pentium 3-- 667 mhz (one of my computer)
and a old ati 7500 with new ati driver 4.11
run fine with 3 d screensaver

> A few things to keep in mind here:
> 1) One major problem with the classic graphics was that since they didn't
> move, it didn't really make for a very good screen saver. I remember several
> reports of seti@home being burnt into a monitor. In that regard the rotation
> is a good thing.

Well, this is not totally crazy, it was a problem on the old SETI@Home, but there are ways to somewhat come around this problem.
(oh, and one need to replace the SETI logo on the 3d graphics aswell, to avoid that logo to burn in ;) (unless that one is disabled in screensaver mode))

On a large plasma we use at the university for videoconferencing, it displaces itself a couple of inches to avoid just burning out the pixels. So, in reality you use alittle less of the visible screen, but move the image around (beeing steady for some seconds, then move the whole image on another part of the screen, and stay there a while, then move it on another place, and so on. This won't totally cure the problem, but it will really help. As lines etc is moved around on the screen and cannot 'burn in' as easy, but large single colored fields will still be able to burn in... (this is also what the login box(screensaver) usually does on win xp, to avoid 'burn-in', but that little logo is a bit smaller than the 2d output is)

> 3) If you are worried about system resources you shouldn't be looking at the
> graphics in the first place :)

Totally agree, the graphics is probably used more for the visual pleasure, than the scientific value ... therefore I think some people rather want smooth 2d text than the choppy 3d text ...

---

________<br>We\'re not living in a black and white world

Just a note - I am not a computer person, I want to know what the analysis is doing, not what the CPU is doing. IF a video card is capable of running moving graphics on its own without CPU support then it is also perfectly capable of putting up 2d fixed graphics. There is no difference in the CPU usage from this ( I have a signals analysis package that gives me a 2d waterfall plot in use and a 3d moving screensaver when idle - it doesnt use any different amount of CPU for this).

Yet no matter how the 3d graphics are set, or the clients 2d version, the actual science is hard to use. I have no burn in problems - because when i dont want to see the graphics, i either minimise them, or i turn the monitor off. Lets face it - and half of you out there are also probably running CPDN as well - its much less wastefull of resources to turn the monitor off than to run a screen saver.

The technical issues here are all moot points. We are the users, we run the clients and crunch the numbers, we should have the say in how we want it to look. I say give us the 2D just like on classic, as a display option. If we want it on we can then have it (if it burns my phosphors i'll get a new monitor) and if you dont want it just choose another graphics option.

---

_________________________________

Dont Bother Trying To Engage My Enthusiasm...Because I Havent Got One

Hail martin!

But really, "if you are concerned about system resources then dont run the screensaver at all"?
I am well aware of it, one can be concerned about system resources, but still want some goodies, its called finding the middle ground! I mean, I can always go back to running windows 98 because its lighter then XP, save some system resources for seti that way... I will never do that ofcourse.

---

I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not superman!

> > Its just a waste of system resources to render it in 3D instead of 2D
>
> Way off there.
>
> Try running the classic 2d version with the screensaver visible all day, then
> run the 3d version with the graphics all day.
>
> I know that the 2d version was what got me to run the client version in the
> first place due to how demanding it was on the CPU. Ran at least 4 times
> slower with the screensaver going.
>
> Meanwhile the 3d version is offloaded to the GPU having minimal impact on
> system resouces.
>

I know my way around PCs (I'm a programmer), so I can tell you that 2D graphics do not necessarily need more CPU-power. If you use the standard Windows graphic system it will create buffers and stuff, all processed by the CPU itself. Using openGL or DirectX however, shifts the workload to the graphic card (that's why it's much faster). The 2D look of SETI (with I prefer too by the way) can easily been rewritten to use the GPU, via DirectX or similar, with (almost) no extra load on the CPU.

Also, using the GPU moves the buffers to the graphic cards memory, freeing up some bytes in your systems RAM...

I've been hearing this since the Boinc Beta and agree that the classic graphics were much easier on the eyes.
I'm thinking that those at UCB are aware of the main problem ( it just looks shabby) and have it on the list.
Programmers running the client (as prev post) have said many times that it's not a monster of a problem to fix and I expect it will come before the plug's pulled on classic.
You ask when?: That's easy- when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter alligns with Mars...cc

> Just a note - I am not a computer person, I want to know what the analysis is
> doing, not what the CPU is doing. IF a video card is capable of running moving
> graphics on its own without CPU support then it is also perfectly capable of
> putting up 2d fixed graphics. There is no difference in the CPU usage from
> this ( I have a signals analysis package that gives me a 2d waterfall plot in
> use and a 3d moving screensaver when idle - it doesnt use any different amount
> of CPU for this).
>
> Yet no matter how the 3d graphics are set, or the clients 2d version, the
> actual science is hard to use. I have no burn in problems - because when i
> dont want to see the graphics, i either minimise them, or i turn the monitor
> off. Lets face it - and half of you out there are also probably running CPDN
> as well - its much less wastefull of resources to turn the monitor off than to
> run a screen saver.
>
> The technical issues here are all moot points. We are the users, we run the
> clients and crunch the numbers, we should have the say in how we want it to
> look. I say give us the 2D just like on classic, as a display option. If we
> want it on we can then have it (if it burns my phosphors i'll get a new
> monitor) and if you dont want it just choose another graphics option.
>

i just go to display properties in windows and set the screensaver to shut off after a certain interval...3 minutes if i'm not home...or 60 minutes to lull me to sleep...of course when it shuts off the crunching goes on a much faster rate...i must say i do like the boinc screensaver better than the one for seti classic...but the text could be rendered a litle more clearly...and i really would like to be able to change display modes on my computer...rather than through the seti site.

---

PROUD TO BE TFFE!