Not The WIndows 8 thread
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Not The WIndows 8 thread
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 ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 
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Thank you Martin. Now I know why you guys are ticked off. I cant see why Microsoft could tell anyone to lock out anybody on hardware that they didnt design. Unfortunately, few if any hardware manufacturers or retailers individually have the financial might to be able to do that. It's more a question of 'politics' as to whether there is seen to be a problem of anti-competitive behaviour. Another question is whether anyone comes to notice that they have lost their freedom. That could be a break for Linux to get a foothold. Possibly. This is very early days for this saga. However, the response from the early days can set the direction for the unfolding story... Im not adverse to using linux, But ive had my share of dos commands in windows 3.1. I really like using a mouse better. Which is where you have a choice. Linux systems support a lot more than just the old fashioned mouse! See: Google: Linux Screenshots for a few example desktops (all mouse driven). IT is what we make it, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1156626 ·  |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Looks like the media machine will be rolling for a full year yet for the tremendous build-up to "Windows 8"... The Last Windows? All good things, they say, must come to an end. And so, looking at the guts of Windows 8, and casting the runes and sticking a finger in the wind, it's possible to say that the end of Windows (as we know it) is finally in sight. Architecture is all when it comes to computer systems, and it's hard to make a fundamental shift in architecture. You can't really do it overnight, when you’re carrying a legacy of nearly 30 years of software history and nearly 90% of the market. ... ... Perhaps the most important part of the Metro story at an architectural level is the introduction of Contracts as a tool for inter-application communication. Instead of developers writing their own interfaces, Metro uses OS-level APIs as a subscription system that lets applications communicate... That's an odd approach for a monolithic platform like Windows. SOA is a tool for building distributed systems, taking n-tier and expanding it to Internet scale. ... ... If Microsoft is taking this route, it's a surprisingly canny approach to changing the underpinnings of Windows, moving it from a monolithic to an adaptive modular operating system. Windows 8 becomes a point of transition, and Windows 9 (if it's still called Windows) becomes something new that can run old and modern code together, securely, on next-generation silicon with it all tied together by a Metro-like launcher. If Windows 8 isn't the last Windows, it's certainly not far from the end. ... With Windows 8, Microsoft recalls its Windows 1 roots Windows 8 is a topic that we have been hashing on nearly every day since the BUILD event, but that does not mean that we have come close to concluding the discussion. In fact, as Microsoft releases more of Windows 8 over the coming weeks, expect the process to continue. ... ... One final thought: the design choices that Microsoft is making at the moment affect far more than the PC, but also form the core of the company’s mobile and living room strategy. They will rise, or fall, as one. So Windows finally becomes secure and flexible? Good to include such security and flexibility, but I just wonder who will actually be in control? I just wonder if, like any politician, they will try to get the bad/unsavoury bits out as early as possible so that all can be forgotten as soon as possible? The Marketing machine has many miles to roll yet! IT is what we make it, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1156630 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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More of the UEFI Windows 8 lock-down is stirring the news... This is quite a long article in the Guardian, but sums up a few points nicely: Why the Windows 8 UEFI secure boot thing has me worried ... We've all been at the end of the phone trying to help a relative achieve what, to us, is a straightforward computing task. We need software to be simpler for them not just for us but so that they can be connected with the data that they need in shorter order and with less frustration. Users need to interact with computers in a "push button – receive pellet" manner, but for us to do that we paradoxically need a computing environment and industry that provides for the total opposite to that... ... Why the UEFI Windows 8 Secure Boot thing has me worried is because actually, we've come pretty close to a decapitation attack on Linux where motherboard manufacturers either build mobos that can [only] run Windows 8, or Apple commission custom-made kit to run OS X. ... ... It's commoditisation of the personal computing market that is driving us towards a place where the devices that are delivered to us are locked down and sealed. iOS is unbelievably locked down, but its success shows the industry that if you lock down the OS and curate the marketplace for delivering apps to it, your malware horror story count goes to zero and your customer satisfaction increases inversely. Android, for example, has horror stories virtually every day – albeit few of them malicious. Microsoft and Apple are likely to tend towards the iOS "lock and curate" model for their desktop efforts as well. Applying "lock and curate" universally and preventing new OSes from being invented is going to cause stagnation in innovation, while providing the important benefits of increasing end-user security. ... For that one, a question missed is in 'who' might get the sense of 'security' when the end users have lost all control over their own work and network socialising?... All at what personal and financial cost? One apt comment in the comments section is: What I find amazing is the whole notion that Microsoft seemingly cannot secure their operating system to stop arbitrary user-land programs scribbling all over the boot sector, so have palmed the responsibility off onto hardware OEMs In other words, we should not need to sell our souls for the sake of promised 'security'... Australian commission probes Windows 8 Linux fears Linux Australia members who have complained about Microsoft's plans to enable a secure booting feature on Windows 8 machines may have a case, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has said. As might be said: "Interesting times..." IT is what we make it, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1156845 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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More of the UEFI Windows 8 lock-down is stirring the news... Considering further... The Microsoft naming of "secure booting" is another of what I consider to be facetiously ambiguous naming, or some such similarly cynical Marketing term... I think a more descriptive term is "restricted booting", as in restrictions are (unnecessarily) imposed on what system is started. As might be said: "Interesting times..." IT is what we make it, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1156851 · |
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Terror Australis Send message Joined: 14 Feb 04 Posts: 1817 Credit: 262,693,308 RAC: 44 
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I wonder if this is another example of Micro$oft FUD ? As MS has been pinged a number of times in both the US and Europe for anti competitive behavior they must be aware that such a lock down is going to leave them exposed to another round of expensive legal battles. This time they could face legal action in other, smaller juristictions as well. They may be greedy so and so's but I doubt they are that stupid. I think its a case of, testing the water by releasing the "bad" news, seeing what the reaction is, then offering a "compromise" which will give MS what they want and meets the legal requirements. This "compromise" will still leave a bad taste in the mouth of users of alternative OS's by making them harder to install, but they will not be locked out. It will be interesting to see the reaction of the motherboard manufacturers. T.A. ID: 1156934 · |
Siran d'Vel'nahr  Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7381 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 
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My reply is that MOST Windows users do not care, or do not know about Linux. Hey Clyde, Here's something for you to ponder...: Before I ever heard of Linux or Unix I was bashing Windows. I still bash Windows, and yes, I do have a computer with Linux on it. My laptop came with Vista installed. It took that laptop over 3 minutes to boot up. I dumped Vista and went with Linux and have NOT looked back. My i7 PC still runs Windows, Win7. I have a few programs that do not play well in Linux's WINE program. And, there is not a Linux version of the programs, yet. So, I'm stuck with Windows. I have to admit that I am impressed with Win7. The only thing that does NOT impress me about it is how Linux-like it has become, at least in it's looks. Oh, but then we cannot forget that Windows and MS-DOS were not original to Microsoft... Last year, when SETI was going through some major problems, more so than now, I re-attached to Einstein. I still do not know, to this day, what happened but my WinXP Pro got so FUBAR-ed that I could no longer run BOINC. I relied on my Core-2-Duo Linux PC for BOINC until I got Win7 and installed it on my i7. Someone said this: Unitl Linux/Unix can be installed and used by non technical That is no longer the case. Linux needs no more and no less tweaking "out of the box" than Windows does. I'll leave it at that, for anyone here interested in perhaps seeing just how user friendly Linux can be and is if you get the right installation. I discovered it on my own and am happy with what I found. Just download the ISO, burn it to CD and install. That simple. Oh, and did I mention that Linux is free? Oh, and the occasional updates that are as automatic as in Windows require much less re-booting like Windows does. Ok, enough of that. There's a bit of insight on why Windows gets bashed by "Linux users". Keep on BOINCing...! :) CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath ID: 1157066 · |
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Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7381 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238
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I tested Linux for some years, but I gave up. Greetings Sutaru, Try this version of Linux: Kubuntu You need to burn the ISO image to a CD then install it. Look for a version that is LTS (Long Term Support). I do believe that is what they call it. It works right "out-of-the-box". You can also do a dual boot install or run it right from the CD to take a tour of it before installing. Have fun! :) Keep on BOINCing...! :) CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath ID: 1157072 · |
Mike Bader   Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 231 Credit: 20,366,214 RAC: 33 |
Linux has come a long ways. It is easier and more windows like. Try pinguy OS Will run from the live CD or install. It is based on ubuntu/mint. Mint is another good one depending on what you want to do. Mike Bader BOINC V7.16.5 http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/team_join_form.php?id=5 - Join Our International Team ID: 1157080 · |
S@NL - John van Gorsel  Send message Joined: 5 Jul 99 Posts: 193 Credit: 139,673,078 RAC: 0 
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I started using Linux because Windows (NT Workstation 3.5) lacked a number of features I needed, such as a DHCP server, Webserver, FTP server, etc. A lot of the applications and services that required NT Server came for free with Linux. So, I purchased a boxed version of Redhat 5.0 (The Award Winning Operating System in 1997!) and it took me 3 days to get it all up and running. That was 1 hour for Linux and the rest of the time to get the X-server properly configured... Over the years, I have always used Linux for "server" functions, such as webserver, backup, files, printing, etc. The latest installs were openSuse 11.0 and 11.3 and it really doesn't differ very much from Windows 7 (although Linux offers a lot more options and software). It's fast, stable, easy to install, and it supports all the latest hardware. For workstation functions I use Windows 7 and I'm happy with it. Win 7 feels as if the graphic subsystem is much faster than the Linux graphics. I can use the same software I use at work and there are a lot more games available for Win 7 then for Linux :-) The only issue I have with Windows 7 is that it sometimes treats you like a 5- year old: after most of the updates, you get this annoying popup telling you to reboot and you can postpone it for 5 minutes or 4 hours, but until you reboot, it will popup, even during that important customer presentation. When you installed a kernel update in Linux (the only software reason for a reboot) you get a polite, one-time-only, request to reboot whenever it is convenient... Anyway, I prefer Linux for the backend systems and Windows 7 for the frontend systems and from some of the responses in this thread I think I'm not the only one ("... most of the internet runs on Linux"). Seti@Netherlands website ID: 1157110 · |
Aristoteles Doukas  Send message Joined: 11 Apr 08 Posts: 1091 Credit: 2,140,913 RAC: 0 
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windows 8 runs surprisingly well and stable even it is only alpha. ouch, this was not win8 thread, my bad. ID: 1158756 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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windows 8 runs surprisingly well and stable even it is only alpha. Unlike the apparent 'restrictions' for the other thread, your positive comments are very welcome here. Happy crunchin', Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1158768 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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From various news since last week, looks like the Microsoft media machine is in overdrive to defend and deflect away from the "restricted boot" doom and gloom and horror. A brief sampling of the more factual articles that add to the initial splash: Core facts: Windows 8 truthiness dissected, Mango sliced Black swan for Microsoft's Sinofsky? ... Meanwhile, Microsoft's done nothing to address the growing concern that the Windows 8 security system will stop PCs running the operating system from also booting Linux. Will this be the black swan that overshadows Windows chief Steven Sinofsky's perfect career at Microsoft? Join Clarke and Foley as they filter fact from fiction and attempt to get to the bottom of Windows 8. ... Will Windows 8 really block Linux installs? We’ve seen a lot of hysterical comments in the past week or so about how Windows 8 is going to screw Linux by preventing Linux dual boots and installs. To be honest, it has been rather astounding the amount of misinformation that has been peddled. ... ... Now, in theory, this could screw Linux and other non-Windows users, as well as people using older versions of Windows. PC manufacturers could release devices with secure boot locked, meaning that the only OS that the PC will ever run is Windows 8, since that’s the only OS it will boot. ... ... Of course, we all know that within five minutes of any such release the device will be jailbroken. More to the point, you don’t have to buy that device. ... Odd that an "authoritative" article appears to be advocating something likely in breach of an expected EULA and hence illegal. One particularly apt comment there: How long will it be before MS comes to agreements with PC manufacturers to produce a "closed shop" for Windows 8? - Much the same way they made it conditional for PC manufacturers to install IE in the early days and not some other browser. Do you STILL trust Microsoft to build antivirus support into Windows 8? Microsoft is building antivirus support directly into Windows 8. But following a blunder the other day that caused the Google Chrome browser to be identified malware, do you still trust Microsoft to deliver effective protection? ... ... False positives do happen. I’ve covered a few examples on this blog over the years, and depending on what’s identified as malware, it can be pretty devastating. When McAfee mistakenly identified the system file svchost.exe as malware back in April 2010, this prevented Windows from even loading up ... There's also 'rumours' that Windows 8 'may be' released early, in April next year. Signs of a 'worried' Steve Ballmer? Or clever Marketing bluster to string people along to the next 'upgrade'? IT is what we make it, Martin EULA: End User Licence Agreement. Many EULAs assert extensive liability limitations. Some EULAs are, in essence, used (to attempt) to gain control, by contract, over matters upon which copyright law precludes control. See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1158772 · |
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Aristoteles Doukas Send message Joined: 11 Apr 08 Posts: 1091 Credit: 2,140,913 RAC: 0
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actually, Security Essential, which will become as a part of windows 8, is light and good even now, tried and tested it. but of course, since vista, you don´t really need any such program, if you use windows account how it is supposed to be used. so it is precaution for the people who use it with admin rights, without uac and without password. ID: 1158845 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Looks like Microsoft is trying to place only half the blame on those that use the Microsoft software! Microsoft report: Users responsible for half of all infections In its latest security report, Microsoft finds that ... Almost half the time (45 per cent), users infect their computers by launching malicious software themselves. ... IT is what we make it! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1163330 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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A time to petition to defend your freedom? Stand up for your freedom to install free software! BOSTON, Massachusetts, USA — Monday, October 17, 2011 — The Free Software Foundation (FSF) released a statement open for public signing, titled "Stand up for your freedom to install free software." The statement, published at http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot-vs-restricted-boot/statement, is a response to Microsoft's announcement that if computer makers wish to distribute machines with the Windows 8 compatibility logo, they must implement a system called "Secure Boot." The FSF statement warns against the danger that, if done wrong, this system would have to be called Restricted Boot, because it could make computers incapable of running anything but Windows. ... ... the FSF is concerned that Microsoft and hardware manufacturers will implement the system in a way that will prevent users from booting anything other than Windows. In this case, the FSF offers the more accurate name of Restricted Boot, explaining that such a requirement would be a severe restriction on computer users and, by giving only a remote third party control over what's authorized to run on their computers, not a security feature at all. "We're looking at a world in which it could become impossible for the average user to install GNU/Linux on any new computer... All those who value their freedom, please add your name to the petition: Stand up for your freedom to install free software! IT is what we make it! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1163337 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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A time to petition to defend your freedom? There's quite a bit of FUD flying around this still. Here's a nicely balanced article for the latest round and comments on some of the various articles: Microsoft isn't the enemy when it comes to blocking Linux on Windows 8 PCs Summary: … it’s the OEMs you have to watch out for. ... There's a few twists and turns in amongst all that lot. Needles to say, there is some very good Microsoft business strategy behind it all, even if I personally do not agree with the methods and intent. To my mind, this is not useful or beneficial to Mankind... All a question of how you value your freedom? IT is what we make it! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1165367 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Meanwhile, Linux development rushes onwards apace with the latest Kernel 3.1 just released: Linux Hits The World: And Linux marches onwards... There's some rather neat stuff in there, including now being able to run virtual machines/environments inside a virtual machine/environment... Oooer, anyone for the Matrix?! ;-) IT is what we make it! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1165369 · |
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Aristoteles Doukas Send message Joined: 11 Apr 08 Posts: 1091 Credit: 2,140,913 RAC: 0
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A time to petition to defend your freedom? how about selling computers with linux installed allready? i think there is a market for that, according to you. "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exist elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." Calvin to the Hobbes ID: 1166603 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Well... This is an interesting twist to lay the foundations for releasing the mobile version of Windows 8... Over on the Politics forum: Beggars Belief Looks like Microsoft is running a no-holds-barred no-rules game to launch Windows 8 onto the world... To me, it appears you must pay money to Microsoft whether you want Microsoft or not, or Microsoft will sue you! What a way to run a business? IT is what we make it, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1166716 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21702 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Reworded from another article elsewhere, here's an interesting question and observation: When was the last time you found a really exciting, new Windows application, from a start-up or a near start-up? When was the last time you read about a venture capitalist funding some new Windows software developer? Microsoft itself is doing a lot, or at least keeping in the news... But there’s a hidden cost to all of this. Each time Windows becomes more capable, some outside software developer’s niche is closed. And many folks who were once happy Windows ISVs (Independent Software Vendors) now find that risk may be too much to take. This is not yet a big risk in the open source world. I can see all your cards, You can see all mine. Transparency keeps the game honest. There’s little danger the owner of the space is going to swoop in and steal the hand. So... Innovation? When was the last time you saw a great new Windows application, from a start-up or small company? Is the "Microsoft" way good for innovation? Is the (ab)use of patents in IT/software a good thing? Are we going to be forever expensively mired in "IP" wars? IT is what we make it! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1167140 · |
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