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Message 983232 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:10:50 UTC

Perhaps in the UK and Europe we are luck to run 230V mains, generally rated ar 13A. So, a crunching load draw of 4kw continuous will not trip the system or make the cables warm.

The cooker circuits are fused to 45A, and can be rigged for crunching use if any one really wanted. It will all come home to roost in the power bills.
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Message 983234 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:13:47 UTC - in response to Message 983222.  

15A on 12/2? Here I have 20A on 12/2(outlets and breakers), I'm looking at getting a 20A power strip(Tripp Lite TLM615NC20 6-Outlet Power Strip (15/20 Amp)). I was told by the electrical contractor that I paid, that 12/2 will handle a 20A circuit.

If your only goal is to meet code, then 14/2 is just fine for a 15a branch.

... but among other things, code does not anticipate drawing more than 12a continuous on a 15a circuit.

Running 12/2 adds another margin of safety.

Around here, 100' of 14/2 is about $35, while 100' of 12/2 is a shade over $50.

Cheap insurance.

Also, this is about SIZING. The circuits should be sized based on the "nameplate" power for each power supply because the system could theoretically draw that much power during start up or other "events."

... and all of the computers on a circuit could "spike" at the same instant. Unlikely, but if you assume that you'd be safe.

Circuits should be sized for the absolute worst case, even if it is very unlikely.

Sounds good to Me, Mind Ya unlike some of the Pros in here I'm just average Joe who knows how to wire a circuit, But has no formal training(I watched lots of electricians when I did work, I was a guard then so I had the time and I was doing My job) and who can't do It anymore as It's too taxing(please don't ask).
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Message 983243 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:27:43 UTC

Rig on a Bench is only drawing 2.5 amps and is running on an extension lead with a 3 amp fuse for protection.It has an RAC of 35k and is on 24/7.

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Message 983244 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:31:39 UTC - in response to Message 983234.  

15A on 12/2? Here I have 20A on 12/2(outlets and breakers), I'm looking at getting a 20A power strip(Tripp Lite TLM615NC20 6-Outlet Power Strip (15/20 Amp)). I was told by the electrical contractor that I paid, that 12/2 will handle a 20A circuit.

If your only goal is to meet code, then 14/2 is just fine for a 15a branch.

... but among other things, code does not anticipate drawing more than 12a continuous on a 15a circuit.

Running 12/2 adds another margin of safety.

Around here, 100' of 14/2 is about $35, while 100' of 12/2 is a shade over $50.

Cheap insurance.

Also, this is about SIZING. The circuits should be sized based on the "nameplate" power for each power supply because the system could theoretically draw that much power during start up or other "events."

... and all of the computers on a circuit could "spike" at the same instant. Unlikely, but if you assume that you'd be safe.

Circuits should be sized for the absolute worst case, even if it is very unlikely.

Sounds good to Me, Mind Ya unlike some of the Pros in here I'm just average Joe who knows how to wire a circuit, But has no formal training(I watched lots of electricians when I did work, I was a guard then so I had the time and I was doing My job) and who can't do It anymore as It's too taxing(please don't ask).

With electrical work, if your not sure, don't risk it and get someone who knows. To many fires and to many people have been killed because someone was not careful with it. We are a bunch of belt an suspender people because we often have knowledge that extends beyond what your normal electrical worker trains for. We allow for conditions that may only exist for a fraction of a second and may not cause harm, but it's not worth the risk. Most of the time the little additional cost can double or triple your level of safety.

If you are considering moving, it may be a good idea to consider if you should be spending the money for altering the power setup. If you will only be there for a short time you will never get your money out of it and the changes will not add to the resale value. You might be better to turn off some hardware for a few months till you move.
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Message 983248 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:47:39 UTC - in response to Message 983232.  

Perhaps in the UK and Europe we are luck to run 230V mains, generally rated ar 13A. So, a crunching load draw of 4kw continuous will not trip the system or make the cables warm.

The cooker circuits are fused to 45A, and can be rigged for crunching use if any one really wanted. It will all come home to roost in the power bills.


My limit here is not the 32A ring mains or the 45A cooker feed, but the 60A incoming mains that I have, with no way of upgrading without major excavation works, which 'aint happening!

I often trip the 60A incoming trip in the Winter - particularly as I heat electric!
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Message 983249 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:54:43 UTC - in response to Message 983196.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2010, 21:55:01 UTC

SNIP

The kitties must be safe.[quote]
Sounds good, Me I'd have to have the two 20A outlets moved closer to My desk and have one 15A type outlet on the countertop(above the dishwasher) looked at as It's always seemed a bit flaky, Sometimes the outlet would provide juice and other times, nothing, right now It's just used for a light, not for a PC, a monitor and a light.

I would advise you not to use that plug until it is checked out. Any intermitant electrical problem is a potential fire waiting to happen. More fires are caused by lamps than just about anything else electrical. I am a Journeyman Electrician. Mobile homes are famous for loose wiring.
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Message 983251 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 21:58:12 UTC - in response to Message 983248.  

Perhaps in the UK and Europe we are luck to run 230V mains, generally rated ar 13A. So, a crunching load draw of 4kw continuous will not trip the system or make the cables warm.

The cooker circuits are fused to 45A, and can be rigged for crunching use if any one really wanted. It will all come home to roost in the power bills.


My limit here is not the 32A ring mains or the 45A cooker feed, but the 60A incoming mains that I have, with no way of upgrading without major excavation works, which 'aint happening!

I often trip the 60A incoming trip in the Winter - particularly as I heat electric!

The typical, modern "service" in the U.S. (new construction) is 200A at 240v.

60A service exists, but only older houses.

We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."
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Message 983252 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:04:15 UTC - in response to Message 983251.  



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

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Message 983255 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:10:21 UTC - in response to Message 983251.  

Perhaps in the UK and Europe we are luck to run 230V mains, generally rated ar 13A. So, a crunching load draw of 4kw continuous will not trip the system or make the cables warm.

The cooker circuits are fused to 45A, and can be rigged for crunching use if any one really wanted. It will all come home to roost in the power bills.


My limit here is not the 32A ring mains or the 45A cooker feed, but the 60A incoming mains that I have, with no way of upgrading without major excavation works, which 'aint happening!

I often trip the 60A incoming trip in the Winter - particularly as I heat electric!

The typical, modern "service" in the U.S. (new construction) is 200A at 240v.

60A service exists, but only older houses.
We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."

Yep, Los Angeles is mostly old 60 amp services but everything runs on Gas. We added A/C and an Electric range for my daughter-in-law and I upgraded her service for her. I have a 320/400 Amp service at my place, I upgraded when I decided to put all my ultilities underground a couple years ago. My wire actually ran from the street to an old pole in the backyard and then to an Oak tree and finally to my house and there were 3 houses on that line with #2 Al. I had 114 volts before and have 120 volts now. I paid for the new Transformer and put all the wire in schedule 80 PVC in case I add a parking lot someday. I also made the power company continue my Power Pole conduit (I had to run first 10 feet) using a level, mine is the only straight one on the street!
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Message 983257 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:14:46 UTC - in response to Message 983252.  



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

It is possible if you have tripped the breaker a number of times you could have a bad or weak breaker. Our house is not that old but we had a breaker that was abused and we needed to replace it.
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Message 983265 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:34:04 UTC - in response to Message 983244.  

15A on 12/2? Here I have 20A on 12/2(outlets and breakers), I'm looking at getting a 20A power strip(Tripp Lite TLM615NC20 6-Outlet Power Strip (15/20 Amp)). I was told by the electrical contractor that I paid, that 12/2 will handle a 20A circuit.

If your only goal is to meet code, then 14/2 is just fine for a 15a branch.

... but among other things, code does not anticipate drawing more than 12a continuous on a 15a circuit.

Running 12/2 adds another margin of safety.

Around here, 100' of 14/2 is about $35, while 100' of 12/2 is a shade over $50.

Cheap insurance.

Also, this is about SIZING. The circuits should be sized based on the "nameplate" power for each power supply because the system could theoretically draw that much power during start up or other "events."

... and all of the computers on a circuit could "spike" at the same instant. Unlikely, but if you assume that you'd be safe.

Circuits should be sized for the absolute worst case, even if it is very unlikely.

Sounds good to Me, Mind Ya unlike some of the Pros in here I'm just average Joe who knows how to wire a circuit, But has no formal training(I watched lots of electricians when I did work, I was a guard then so I had the time and I was doing My job) and who can't do It anymore as It's too taxing(please don't ask).

With electrical work, if your not sure, don't risk it and get someone who knows. To many fires and to many people have been killed because someone was not careful with it. We are a bunch of belt an suspender people because we often have knowledge that extends beyond what your normal electrical worker trains for. We allow for conditions that may only exist for a fraction of a second and may not cause harm, but it's not worth the risk. Most of the time the little additional cost can double or triple your level of safety.

If you are considering moving, it may be a good idea to consider if you should be spending the money for altering the power setup. If you will only be there for a short time you will never get your money out of it and the changes will not add to the resale value. You might be better to turn off some hardware for a few months till you move.

Well I'd like to do any electrical work, It would just be really hard to do for Me, As just getting up is a task in Itself(I weigh about 379lbs, joint problems, long story), As to moving, so far the market for mobilehomes is flat in the Barstow/Yermo area as there have been no sales in at least a year, I did nominate Yermo for that Google Fiber that has been on the news about a month back(I even got a reply too), But so far nothing on the sale, I just sit here and get a little more done each month. A 20A power strip is just an idea on one of My amazon wishlists currently with no time table for purchase(a 15A one meets My current needs for My PC that I'm using now).
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Message 983266 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:34:16 UTC - in response to Message 983257.  



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

It is possible if you have tripped the breaker a number of times you could have a bad or weak breaker. Our house is not that old but we had a breaker that was abused and we needed to replace it.


I'm sure it is working just fine. It only goes when the load is excessive. It hasn't tripped in weeks - i.e. since the weather got milder!
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Message 983271 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:37:02 UTC - in response to Message 983257.  
Last modified: 24 Mar 2010, 22:40:50 UTC



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

It is possible if you have tripped the breaker a number of times you could have a bad or weak breaker. Our house is not that old but we had a breaker that was abused and we needed to replace it.

I just replaced a breaker last week in a mobile home that the lights would dim every once in awhile and they had had another electrical company check it out. He was told it was a loose wire on the pole and the guy argued with the Power Company electrician for an hour and was really hot when he called me for his third opinion. It ended up being 1 side of a double throw single pole breaker. Part of the breaker worked and part worked most of the time. I could tell by just a bit of blackening caused by heat where it connected to the bus. He didn't believe me so I whacked the breaker and it started doing just what he described and was sure no one believed. Changed out the ITE breaker and all is fine and he is happy. His wife ended up being a good friend of my girlfriend so now they know who to call.
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Message 983273 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 22:40:41 UTC - in response to Message 983252.  



We upgraded from 60A because the kindest way to describe the old service was "potentially lethal."


There is nothing lethal about mine. Try and draw too much it goes off - simple as that! Nothing gets hot, smells funny, whatever. It just doesn't let you draw more than 60A. It's only really a problem in the coldest of weather, but even less so now that I have a heat pump - so using a lot less current to heat the house & hot water.

Yours was likely newer. The wiring between the disconnect and the meter (which was not enclosed or "sealed" against tampering) had fabric insulation, not rubber or plastic, and there were sections where it had simply flaked off.

I always made it a point to stand on a non-conductor if I was going to even look at it.
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Message 983316 - Posted: 24 Mar 2010, 23:54:19 UTC

My niece asked me to replace the light fixture in her mobile home. She said it would come on but it flickered. Just as I thought, the ground had broken off the socket so I replaced the old fixture for her. When I finished she then mentioned she had an outlet in the kitchen that sparked when she turned on the light plugged into it. I tried it and had no problem with it at all. Plugged and unplugged the light three or four times, turned it on and off with the little rotary switch in the cord a few times, nothing. then she mentioned the garbage disposal did the same thing so I tried it. Worked fine. The only thing I could figure was they were on the same circuit as the bathroom and the bad ground was the cause of it all.


Wonder how much it would have cost to have an Electrician do that? Probably would have charged her for all three problems separately.


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Message 983319 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 0:01:50 UTC - in response to Message 983316.  

My niece asked me to replace the light fixture in her mobile home. She said it would come on but it flickered. Just as I thought, the ground had broken off the socket so I replaced the old fixture for her. When I finished she then mentioned she had an outlet in the kitchen that sparked when she turned on the light plugged into it. I tried it and had no problem with it at all. Plugged and unplugged the light three or four times, turned it on and off with the little rotary switch in the cord a few times, nothing. then she mentioned the garbage disposal did the same thing so I tried it. Worked fine. The only thing I could figure was they were on the same circuit as the bathroom and the bad ground was the cause of it all.


Wonder how much it would have cost to have an Electrician do that? Probably would have charged her for all three problems separately.

You maybe saved Your Niece $100.00, maybe.
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Message 983328 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 0:37:26 UTC - in response to Message 983319.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2010, 0:37:44 UTC

You maybe saved Your Niece $100.00, maybe.

And possibly her mobile home (and her life?) as well.

I once (as a student, more years ago than I care to remember!) switched off the main breaker to a hotel kitchen at the start of a holiday weekend when they were due to cater for 100 guests. I refused to switch it back on again because I found that the "buzzing noise" they had noticed was the cable to one of the light switches arcing to the (metal) conduit. Everything in the kitchen was electric. The "handyman" they employed had told them there was "nothing to worry about"!! I was never welcome back in that establishment again...

F.
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Message 983334 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 0:55:13 UTC - in response to Message 983316.  

My niece asked me to replace the light fixture in her mobile home. She said it would come on but it flickered. Just as I thought, the ground had broken off the socket so I replaced the old fixture for her. When I finished she then mentioned she had an outlet in the kitchen that sparked when she turned on the light plugged into it. I tried it and had no problem with it at all. Plugged and unplugged the light three or four times, turned it on and off with the little rotary switch in the cord a few times, nothing. then she mentioned the garbage disposal did the same thing so I tried it. Worked fine. The only thing I could figure was they were on the same circuit as the bathroom and the bad ground was the cause of it all.


Wonder how much it would have cost to have an Electrician do that? Probably would have charged her for all three problems separately.

Sorry but her kitchen outlets and especially the disposal should not be on her lighting circuit. I would turn the breakers off and check for a loose wire....probably has stab and jab plugs and they get loose with age. Worth checking. My brother is a licensed bonded Electrical contractor and would have charged $70 for a call like that. So you did her good.
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Message 983335 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 1:05:13 UTC - in response to Message 983328.  

You maybe saved Your Niece $100.00, maybe.

And possibly her mobile home (and her life?) as well.

I once (as a student, more years ago than I care to remember!) switched off the main breaker to a hotel kitchen at the start of a holiday weekend when they were due to cater for 100 guests. I refused to switch it back on again because I found that the "buzzing noise" they had noticed was the cable to one of the light switches arcing to the (metal) conduit. Everything in the kitchen was electric. The "handyman" they employed had told them there was "nothing to worry about"!! I was never welcome back in that establishment again...

F.

Yeah a paid handyman is usually a paid yes man and may not be qualified, You did the right thing, I saw an episode of Cold Case on TV where a guy lost His Children cause of a fire in the house He rented that had had electrical problems(His ex-wife was somewhere else, She believed in His innocence), when He woke up the whole house was on fire and the kids were in the back and were doomed as He couldn't get near them, So He left to try and get at them from an outside window, Which didn't help, So His relatives disowned Him and He was judged guilty of arson and sent to prison and murdered there, Needless to say the landlord had a handyman who said the had no problems and that a half melted outlet wasn't a problem, just use the bottom half the guy said, The fire department guy who charged the guy with arson had almost no real training and got a lot of training from previous people while on the job as a fireman, So there was only prejudice against Him and nothing He said made a dammed bit of difference, Even afterwards when they proved the guy didn't do It, His parents still thought He killed their grandchildren and said He should have gone back in there and died trying to save them, When most likely the kids were already dead from smoke inhalation.
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Message 983336 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 1:06:36 UTC - in response to Message 983334.  

My niece asked me to replace the light fixture in her mobile home. She said it would come on but it flickered. Just as I thought, the ground had broken off the socket so I replaced the old fixture for her. When I finished she then mentioned she had an outlet in the kitchen that sparked when she turned on the light plugged into it. I tried it and had no problem with it at all. Plugged and unplugged the light three or four times, turned it on and off with the little rotary switch in the cord a few times, nothing. then she mentioned the garbage disposal did the same thing so I tried it. Worked fine. The only thing I could figure was they were on the same circuit as the bathroom and the bad ground was the cause of it all.


Wonder how much it would have cost to have an Electrician do that? Probably would have charged her for all three problems separately.

Sorry but her kitchen outlets and especially the disposal should not be on her lighting circuit. I would turn the breakers off and check for a loose wire....probably has stab and jab plugs and they get loose with age. Worth checking. My brother is a licensed bonded Electrical contractor and would have charged $70 for a call like that. So you did her good.

In My kitchen I have about 2 or 3 circuits and all work great. :D
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