Unhappy kitties......

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Profile perryjay
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Message 983354 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 1:42:21 UTC - in response to Message 983334.  

Sorry but her kitchen outlets and especially the disposal should not be on her lighting circuit.


That's what surprised me too. It is a very old trailer in a mobile home park. No telling who might have messed with the wiring over the years. They are on the same breaker. She mentioned blowing a breaker before and both the kitchen and bathroom went out. She tells me all this after I had changed the fixture and checked the outlets. :-)


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Message 983357 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 1:48:32 UTC - in response to Message 983354.  

Sorry but her kitchen outlets and especially the disposal should not be on her lighting circuit.


That's what surprised me too. It is a very old trailer in a mobile home park. No telling who might have messed with the wiring over the years. They are on the same breaker. She mentioned blowing a breaker before and both the kitchen and bathroom went out. She tells me all this after I had changed the fixture and checked the outlets. :-)

If it is old it is hard telling especially in a trailer. If you live near an Airport or in an area of heavy air travel it is a good idea to turn the panel off every couple years and check screws, we get that a lot around here.
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Message 983360 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 2:05:21 UTC - in response to Message 983159.  


Correct....I have a little headroom on the feeder....which again, will keep the voltage drop down as well. All the rigs and the chiller will be able to plug into their own receptacle (9 out of the 12), and the power strips will only be used for the multiple wall worts powering video splitters, the modem, router, etc., and the monitor...low power devices with very light loading.

A few chosen rigs will first go through the 2 1500 watt UPS's that I have.

Mark, one thing you might want to do is put your strip with your low draw stuff on one of your UPS's, to keep your communication up and running, at least for a little while, in hopes that it is just a short outage. Not sure how much wattage it would draw, but I can't imagine it would be too much? Justa thought.

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Message 983361 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 2:10:02 UTC

I live in a trailer that was built in 1969, nothing but 15 amp circuits on the interior boxes.

There is an external box that runs the A/C and the fridge.

I want to one of these days have the master rewired so that there is 20 amp circuits in there for the heater.

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Message 983364 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 2:17:48 UTC - in response to Message 983160.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2010, 2:26:13 UTC

The main thing is being able to walk out of the house to go to work not having to worry if the kitties are safe. That last failure scared the heck out of me.
Power strips carry a 15 amp UL rating....but they will not carry that full load 24/7 without failing eventually.

The kitties must be safe.


unhappy kitties has been a popular thread, after you get everything running you will need to start a tortured kitties thread as you turn up the OC.

so are u starting to get the "shakes" as your RAC drops?!?!? Better safe then cooked kitties:)
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Message 983436 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 6:41:45 UTC

Seems a lot of people have unhappy electrics!

Mark will soon recover his RAC - I'm more worried about him & the kitties getting cold without all those room heaters running ;)
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Message 983528 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 15:23:42 UTC

I can see where you guys have so many power problems.
The main problems over here is back pain lugging round heavy Cast Iron 250/120 volt Mains Transformers on construction sites to comply with regulations.

Also ring mains helps in keeping cable cool as it feeds sockets from two different direction from the same fuse (meeting in the center.

UK power supply L1 N EARTH.

L1 240 volt Neutral 0-6 volts Earth.

What are Your power supply line voltages? L1 120 volt earth 0

Or L1 120 volt earth 0 L2 120 volt .

First is UK 240 volt Second using 120 volt Industrial standard.
1.0 mm2 10 amps Up to 2400 Watts Up to 1200 Watts
1.25 mm2 13 amps Up to 3120 Watts Up to 1560 Watts
1.5 mm2 15 amps Up to 3600 Watts Up to 1800 Watts
2.5 mm2 20 amps Up to 4800 Watts Up to 2400 Watts
4.0 mm2 25 amps Up to 6000 Watts Up to 3000 Watts
6.0 mm2 46 amps Up to 11000 Watts Up to 5500 Watts
10.0mm2 63 amps Up to 15000 Watts Up to 7500 Watts

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Message 983537 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 15:44:43 UTC - in response to Message 983528.  

I can see where you guys have so many power problems.
The main problems over here is back pain lugging round heavy Cast Iron 250/120 volt Mains Transformers on construction sites to comply with regulations.

Also ring mains helps in keeping cable cool as it feeds sockets from two different direction from the same fuse (meeting in the center.

UK power supply L1 N EARTH.

L1 240 volt Neutral 0-6 volts Earth.

What are Your power supply line voltages? L1 120 volt earth 0

Or L1 120 volt earth 0 L2 120 volt .

First is UK 240 volt Second using 120 volt Industrial standard.
1.0 mm2 10 amps Up to 2400 Watts Up to 1200 Watts
1.25 mm2 13 amps Up to 3120 Watts Up to 1560 Watts
1.5 mm2 15 amps Up to 3600 Watts Up to 1800 Watts
2.5 mm2 20 amps Up to 4800 Watts Up to 2400 Watts
4.0 mm2 25 amps Up to 6000 Watts Up to 3000 Watts
6.0 mm2 46 amps Up to 11000 Watts Up to 5500 Watts
10.0mm2 63 amps Up to 15000 Watts Up to 7500 Watts

Michael

I had forgotten about the ring system, seems base housing in Germany was done that way. I believe the base was started by the Brits. Couldn't do that kind of wiring here and I don't feel it is as safe as having one fuse per circuit. Lose a leg and all still works but the amps go way up.

Ring Circuit
The final ring-circuit concept has been criticized in a number of ways, and some of these disadvantages could explain the lack of widespread adoption outside the United Kingdom.

The only way to see the pros and cons of ring circuits is to compare them to the other option: radials.

[edit] Fault conditions are not apparent when in use
Ring circuits continue to operate without the user being aware of any problem if there are fault conditions or installation errors that make the circuit unsafe:[3][4]

Part of the ring missing or loose connections result in 2.5 mm2 cables running above rated current at times, resulting in reduced cable life.[5]
Radials with a loose connection will overheat severely and be an immediate fire risk.
Radials with a broken connection will not function (if L or N broken), or function with no safety earth connection (if E broken).
Accidental cross connection between two 32 A rings means that the fault current protection reaches 64 A and the required fault disconnection times are violated grossly.
Testing at installation addresses this.
Ring spur installations encourage using three connectors in one terminal, which can cause one to become loose and overheat.
The same situation occurs with both radial and ring circuits when branching off is used.
Rings encourage the installation of too many spurs on a ring, leading to a risk of overheating, especially if spur cables are too long without adequate fusing at the spur-point (i.e. a BS5733 or similar fused spur is not used) - although it should be noted that this is almost certainly a breach of the appropriate wiring code (e.g. BS7671 in the UK).
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Message 983569 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 17:22:41 UTC

We use a single run to all the points on the circuit without any loops. Our power delivery looks like this and we have neutral and safety ground which are at some point tied together but in newer wiring are run with a wire for each. In some older wiring only two wires were run with ground and neutral being the same wire. Most of the house is wired as 110-125 but 220-250 is available for high draw items such as stoves, heat pumps, air conditioners, electric dryers, electric water heaters and in some cases electric cars. Three phase is reserved for industrial and transmission applications and most of the time can't be had at a residential location.
Runs must be the same gauge from start to end and anytime there is a change in gauge, there needs to be a fuse or breaker.

Most of the time a leg will run between 117 and 125 volts but it can vary depending on where you live and how much power your neighbors are drawing and how much wire you have out. Often if you have a real voltage problem, you call the power company out and they will clean it up.

Our condo was not having any trouble but some of our neighbors must have because the power company just came out and replaced our under ground wiring without conduit with underground wiring with conduit. All of it was under pavement so we were driving over trenches for about a month and a half while they did the work.

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Message 983577 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 17:53:22 UTC - in response to Message 983569.  

We use a single run to all the points on the circuit without any loops. Our power delivery looks like this and we have neutral and safety ground which are at some point tied together but in newer wiring are run with a wire for each. In some older wiring only two wires were run with ground and neutral being the same wire. Most of the house is wired as 110-125 but 220-250 is available for high draw items such as stoves, heat pumps, air conditioners, electric dryers, electric water heaters and in some cases electric cars. Three phase is reserved for industrial and transmission applications and most of the time can't be had at a residential location.
Runs must be the same gauge from start to end and anytime there is a change in gauge, there needs to be a fuse or breaker.

Most of the time a leg will run between 117 and 125 volts but it can vary depending on where you live and how much power your neighbors are drawing and how much wire you have out. Often if you have a real voltage problem, you call the power company out and they will clean it up.

Our condo was not having any trouble but some of our neighbors must have because the power company just came out and replaced our under ground wiring without conduit with underground wiring with conduit. All of it was under pavement so we were driving over trenches for about a month and a half while they did the work.

Side Question, Can 440-480v ac be had at a residence in the USA? This is for use with the New Nissan Leaf(an Electric Car, @ 480v It's supposed to recharge in 25 minutes, longer for 240v/8 hours and 120v/16 hours). No I don't have one, I'm only curious.
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Message 983583 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 18:18:06 UTC - in response to Message 983577.  

We use a single run to all the points on the circuit without any loops. Our power delivery looks like this and we have neutral and safety ground which are at some point tied together but in newer wiring are run with a wire for each. In some older wiring only two wires were run with ground and neutral being the same wire. Most of the house is wired as 110-125 but 220-250 is available for high draw items such as stoves, heat pumps, air conditioners, electric dryers, electric water heaters and in some cases electric cars. Three phase is reserved for industrial and transmission applications and most of the time can't be had at a residential location.
Runs must be the same gauge from start to end and anytime there is a change in gauge, there needs to be a fuse or breaker.

Most of the time a leg will run between 117 and 125 volts but it can vary depending on where you live and how much power your neighbors are drawing and how much wire you have out. Often if you have a real voltage problem, you call the power company out and they will clean it up.

Our condo was not having any trouble but some of our neighbors must have because the power company just came out and replaced our under ground wiring without conduit with underground wiring with conduit. All of it was under pavement so we were driving over trenches for about a month and a half while they did the work.

Side Question, Can 440-480v ac be had at a residence in the USA? This is for use with the New Nissan Leaf(an Electric Car, @ 480v It's supposed to recharge in 25 minutes, longer for 240v/8 hours and 120v/16 hours). No I don't have one, I'm only curious.

Best you can do at the breaker box would be 220. That type of voltage would be available at the transformer but it would cost you to get it to the house. I also suspect code in most places would not allow it to be run to the house but that may change as electric cars become available.

I also question if it's a good idea because most of the time when you fast charge batteries they don't last as long. Most of the time a 3 or 4 hour charge is about as fast as you want to charge for long life. It may also be that the 25 minute time is a charge up to 70% or 80%. The last part of the charge is where the damage is done.
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Message 983595 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 19:28:27 UTC - in response to Message 983577.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2010, 19:30:37 UTC


Side Question, Can 440-480v ac be had at a residence in the USA? This is for use with the New Nissan Leaf(an Electric Car, @ 480v It's supposed to recharge in 25 minutes, longer for 240v/8 hours and 120v/16 hours). No I don't have one, I'm only curious.


Put my name on the "interested" list for one of these. Would be great as a second car for local runs.

edit - surely you can get 480V easily enough using a step up transformer - depending what sort of current you wanted...
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Message 983600 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 19:34:16 UTC - in response to Message 983583.  

We use a single run to all the points on the circuit without any loops. Our power delivery looks like this and we have neutral and safety ground which are at some point tied together but in newer wiring are run with a wire for each. In some older wiring only two wires were run with ground and neutral being the same wire. Most of the house is wired as 110-125 but 220-250 is available for high draw items such as stoves, heat pumps, air conditioners, electric dryers, electric water heaters and in some cases electric cars. Three phase is reserved for industrial and transmission applications and most of the time can't be had at a residential location.
Runs must be the same gauge from start to end and anytime there is a change in gauge, there needs to be a fuse or breaker.

Most of the time a leg will run between 117 and 125 volts but it can vary depending on where you live and how much power your neighbors are drawing and how much wire you have out. Often if you have a real voltage problem, you call the power company out and they will clean it up.

Our condo was not having any trouble but some of our neighbors must have because the power company just came out and replaced our under ground wiring without conduit with underground wiring with conduit. All of it was under pavement so we were driving over trenches for about a month and a half while they did the work.

Side Question, Can 440-480v ac be had at a residence in the USA? This is for use with the New Nissan Leaf(an Electric Car, @ 480v It's supposed to recharge in 25 minutes, longer for 240v/8 hours and 120v/16 hours). No I don't have one, I'm only curious.

Best you can do at the breaker box would be 220. That type of voltage would be available at the transformer but it would cost you to get it to the house. I also suspect code in most places would not allow it to be run to the house but that may change as electric cars become available.

I also question if it's a good idea because most of the time when you fast charge batteries they don't last as long. Most of the time a 3 or 4 hour charge is about as fast as you want to charge for long life. It may also be that the 25 minute time is a charge up to 70% or 80%. The last part of the charge is where the damage is done.

Nissan said to 100%, I think. As the Car has a 100 mile range using the 580lbs of battery packs It has.
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Message 983606 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 19:48:39 UTC

I checked the web site and a 26 minute charge only takes you up to 80%. If you are eating lunch while you charge you could end up with as much as 90% by the time you are ready to hit the road again.

Stepping up to 480 from 220 would not solve the problem because what you are after is the watts. If they are using 480 it's because they are unable to get the current through the connection when running 220. The web site also said you had the option between a 20 amp and 40 amp 220 connection and with the 40 amp your charge time is reduced to 4 hours. It didn't say how fast you could hit the 80% mark. It's hard to calculate that without knowing how much they cut back the charge rate for the last 20%.
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Message 983607 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 19:50:49 UTC - in response to Message 983577.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2010, 19:51:42 UTC

To be built by Nissen in the U.K.

And has no one heard of RCD's ?

Dave
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Message 983628 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 21:04:43 UTC - in response to Message 983537.  

I can see where you guys have so many power problems.
The main problems over here is back pain lugging round heavy Cast Iron 250/120 volt Mains Transformers on construction sites to comply with regulations.

Also ring mains helps in keeping cable cool as it feeds sockets from two different direction from the same fuse (meeting in the center.

UK power supply L1 N EARTH.

L1 240 volt Neutral 0-6 volts Earth.

What are Your power supply line voltages? L1 120 volt earth 0

Or L1 120 volt earth 0 L2 120 volt .

First is UK 240 volt Second using 120 volt Industrial standard.
1.0 mm2 10 amps Up to 2400 Watts Up to 1200 Watts
1.25 mm2 13 amps Up to 3120 Watts Up to 1560 Watts
1.5 mm2 15 amps Up to 3600 Watts Up to 1800 Watts
2.5 mm2 20 amps Up to 4800 Watts Up to 2400 Watts
4.0 mm2 25 amps Up to 6000 Watts Up to 3000 Watts
6.0 mm2 46 amps Up to 11000 Watts Up to 5500 Watts
10.0mm2 63 amps Up to 15000 Watts Up to 7500 Watts

Michael

I had forgotten about the ring system, seems base housing in Germany was done that way. I believe the base was started by the Brits. Couldn't do that kind of wiring here and I don't feel it is as safe as having one fuse per circuit. Lose a leg and all still works but the amps go way up.

Ring Circuit
The final ring-circuit concept has been criticized in a number of ways, and some of these disadvantages could explain the lack of widespread adoption outside the United Kingdom.

The only way to see the pros and cons of ring circuits is to compare them to the other option: radials.

[edit] Fault conditions are not apparent when in use
Ring circuits continue to operate without the user being aware of any problem if there are fault conditions or installation errors that make the circuit unsafe:[3][4]

Part of the ring missing or loose connections result in 2.5 mm2 cables running above rated current at times, resulting in reduced cable life.[5]
Radials with a loose connection will overheat severely and be an immediate fire risk.
Radials with a broken connection will not function (if L or N broken), or function with no safety earth connection (if E broken).
Accidental cross connection between two 32 A rings means that the fault current protection reaches 64 A and the required fault disconnection times are violated grossly.
Testing at installation addresses this.
Ring spur installations encourage using three connectors in one terminal, which can cause one to become loose and overheat.
The same situation occurs with both radial and ring circuits when branching off is used.
Rings encourage the installation of too many spurs on a ring, leading to a risk of overheating, especially if spur cables are too long without adequate fusing at the spur-point (i.e. a BS5733 or similar fused spur is not used) - although it should be noted that this is almost certainly a breach of the appropriate wiring code (e.g. BS7671 in the UK).


One thing you are missing is that all our plugs have fuses in. It is almost impossible to get smoke out of a power strip here. The only reliable way to smoke one is to remove the fuses & replace with something handy like a section from a 6 inch nail - good old farmers' trick :) Much over 3kW & the fuse goes in the plug. The sort of scenario that Mark had is VERY rare here.

BTW, can you get 3kW safely out of a power strip?
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Message 983635 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 21:37:46 UTC - in response to Message 983628.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2010, 21:44:04 UTC

I can see where you guys have so many power problems.
The main problems over here is back pain lugging round heavy Cast Iron 250/120 volt Mains Transformers on construction sites to comply with regulations.

Also ring mains helps in keeping cable cool as it feeds sockets from two different direction from the same fuse (meeting in the center.

UK power supply L1 N EARTH.

L1 240 volt Neutral 0-6 volts Earth.

What are Your power supply line voltages? L1 120 volt earth 0

Or L1 120 volt earth 0 L2 120 volt .

First is UK 240 volt Second using 120 volt Industrial standard.
1.0 mm2 10 amps Up to 2400 Watts Up to 1200 Watts
1.25 mm2 13 amps Up to 3120 Watts Up to 1560 Watts
1.5 mm2 15 amps Up to 3600 Watts Up to 1800 Watts
2.5 mm2 20 amps Up to 4800 Watts Up to 2400 Watts
4.0 mm2 25 amps Up to 6000 Watts Up to 3000 Watts
6.0 mm2 46 amps Up to 11000 Watts Up to 5500 Watts
10.0mm2 63 amps Up to 15000 Watts Up to 7500 Watts

Michael

I had forgotten about the ring system, seems base housing in Germany was done that way. I believe the base was started by the Brits. Couldn't do that kind of wiring here and I don't feel it is as safe as having one fuse per circuit. Lose a leg and all still works but the amps go way up.

Ring Circuit
The final ring-circuit concept has been criticized in a number of ways, and some of these disadvantages could explain the lack of widespread adoption outside the United Kingdom.

The only way to see the pros and cons of ring circuits is to compare them to the other option: radials.

[edit] Fault conditions are not apparent when in use
Ring circuits continue to operate without the user being aware of any problem if there are fault conditions or installation errors that make the circuit unsafe:[3][4]

Part of the ring missing or loose connections result in 2.5 mm2 cables running above rated current at times, resulting in reduced cable life.[5]
Radials with a loose connection will overheat severely and be an immediate fire risk.
Radials with a broken connection will not function (if L or N broken), or function with no safety earth connection (if E broken).
Accidental cross connection between two 32 A rings means that the fault current protection reaches 64 A and the required fault disconnection times are violated grossly.
Testing at installation addresses this.
Ring spur installations encourage using three connectors in one terminal, which can cause one to become loose and overheat.
The same situation occurs with both radial and ring circuits when branching off is used.
Rings encourage the installation of too many spurs on a ring, leading to a risk of overheating, especially if spur cables are too long without adequate fusing at the spur-point (i.e. a BS5733 or similar fused spur is not used) - although it should be noted that this is almost certainly a breach of the appropriate wiring code (e.g. BS7671 in the UK).


One thing you are missing is that all our plugs have fuses in. It is almost impossible to get smoke out of a power strip here. The only reliable way to smoke one is to remove the fuses & replace with something handy like a section from a 6 inch nail - good old farmers' trick :) Much over 3kW & the fuse goes in the plug. The sort of scenario that Mark had is VERY rare here.

BTW, can you get 3kW safely out of a power strip?

I know of 2kW powerstrips, But 3kW? No. But then We don't need that much I'd think, Not in a house. :D We do have GFCI outlets or this one from the wiki right Here, Which are similar to Your fused outlets.
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Message 983638 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 21:51:25 UTC - in response to Message 983635.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2010, 22:00:44 UTC

I can see where you guys have so many power problems.
The main problems over here is back pain lugging round heavy Cast Iron 250/120 volt Mains Transformers on construction sites to comply with regulations.

Also ring mains helps in keeping cable cool as it feeds sockets from two different direction from the same fuse (meeting in the center.

UK power supply L1 N EARTH.

L1 240 volt Neutral 0-6 volts Earth.

What are Your power supply line voltages? L1 120 volt earth 0

Or L1 120 volt earth 0 L2 120 volt .

First is UK 240 volt Second using 120 volt Industrial standard.
1.0 mm2 10 amps Up to 2400 Watts Up to 1200 Watts
1.25 mm2 13 amps Up to 3120 Watts Up to 1560 Watts
1.5 mm2 15 amps Up to 3600 Watts Up to 1800 Watts
2.5 mm2 20 amps Up to 4800 Watts Up to 2400 Watts
4.0 mm2 25 amps Up to 6000 Watts Up to 3000 Watts
6.0 mm2 46 amps Up to 11000 Watts Up to 5500 Watts
10.0mm2 63 amps Up to 15000 Watts Up to 7500 Watts

Michael

I had forgotten about the ring system, seems base housing in Germany was done that way. I believe the base was started by the Brits. Couldn't do that kind of wiring here and I don't feel it is as safe as having one fuse per circuit. Lose a leg and all still works but the amps go way up.

Ring Circuit
The final ring-circuit concept has been criticized in a number of ways, and some of these disadvantages could explain the lack of widespread adoption outside the United Kingdom.

The only way to see the pros and cons of ring circuits is to compare them to the other option: radials.

[edit] Fault conditions are not apparent when in use
Ring circuits continue to operate without the user being aware of any problem if there are fault conditions or installation errors that make the circuit unsafe:[3][4]

Part of the ring missing or loose connections result in 2.5 mm2 cables running above rated current at times, resulting in reduced cable life.[5]
Radials with a loose connection will overheat severely and be an immediate fire risk.
Radials with a broken connection will not function (if L or N broken), or function with no safety earth connection (if E broken).
Accidental cross connection between two 32 A rings means that the fault current protection reaches 64 A and the required fault disconnection times are violated grossly.
Testing at installation addresses this.
Ring spur installations encourage using three connectors in one terminal, which can cause one to become loose and overheat.
The same situation occurs with both radial and ring circuits when branching off is used.
Rings encourage the installation of too many spurs on a ring, leading to a risk of overheating, especially if spur cables are too long without adequate fusing at the spur-point (i.e. a BS5733 or similar fused spur is not used) - although it should be noted that this is almost certainly a breach of the appropriate wiring code (e.g. BS7671 in the UK).


One thing you are missing is that all our plugs have fuses in. It is almost impossible to get smoke out of a power strip here. The only reliable way to smoke one is to remove the fuses & replace with something handy like a section from a 6 inch nail - good old farmers' trick :) Much over 3kW & the fuse goes in the plug. The sort of scenario that Mark had is VERY rare here.

BTW, can you get 3kW safely out of a power strip?

I know of 2kW powerstrips, But 3kW? No. But then We don't need that much I'd think, Not in a house. :D


Could be talking about three 13 amp sockets on the same strip each having a one kilowatt fan heater connected and another with a power strip I've seen this myself in some offices I've been in. Don't forget English voltage of 250 volt 12 amps equals 3 KW as compare to 120 volt 24 amps.

It's amazing what you can find on PAT testing.

Michael
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Message 983641 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 22:00:40 UTC - in response to Message 983635.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2010, 22:01:43 UTC

I can see where you guys have so many power problems.
The main problems over here is back pain lugging round heavy Cast Iron 250/120 volt Mains Transformers on construction sites to comply with regulations.

Also ring mains helps in keeping cable cool as it feeds sockets from two different direction from the same fuse (meeting in the center.

UK power supply L1 N EARTH.

L1 240 volt Neutral 0-6 volts Earth.

What are Your power supply line voltages? L1 120 volt earth 0

Or L1 120 volt earth 0 L2 120 volt .

First is UK 240 volt Second using 120 volt Industrial standard.
1.0 mm2 10 amps Up to 2400 Watts Up to 1200 Watts
1.25 mm2 13 amps Up to 3120 Watts Up to 1560 Watts
1.5 mm2 15 amps Up to 3600 Watts Up to 1800 Watts
2.5 mm2 20 amps Up to 4800 Watts Up to 2400 Watts
4.0 mm2 25 amps Up to 6000 Watts Up to 3000 Watts
6.0 mm2 46 amps Up to 11000 Watts Up to 5500 Watts
10.0mm2 63 amps Up to 15000 Watts Up to 7500 Watts

Michael

I had forgotten about the ring system, seems base housing in Germany was done that way. I believe the base was started by the Brits. Couldn't do that kind of wiring here and I don't feel it is as safe as having one fuse per circuit. Lose a leg and all still works but the amps go way up.

Ring Circuit
The final ring-circuit concept has been criticized in a number of ways, and some of these disadvantages could explain the lack of widespread adoption outside the United Kingdom.

The only way to see the pros and cons of ring circuits is to compare them to the other option: radials.

[edit] Fault conditions are not apparent when in use
Ring circuits continue to operate without the user being aware of any problem if there are fault conditions or installation errors that make the circuit unsafe:[3][4]

Part of the ring missing or loose connections result in 2.5 mm2 cables running above rated current at times, resulting in reduced cable life.[5]
Radials with a loose connection will overheat severely and be an immediate fire risk.
Radials with a broken connection will not function (if L or N broken), or function with no safety earth connection (if E broken).
Accidental cross connection between two 32 A rings means that the fault current protection reaches 64 A and the required fault disconnection times are violated grossly.
Testing at installation addresses this.
Ring spur installations encourage using three connectors in one terminal, which can cause one to become loose and overheat.
The same situation occurs with both radial and ring circuits when branching off is used.
Rings encourage the installation of too many spurs on a ring, leading to a risk of overheating, especially if spur cables are too long without adequate fusing at the spur-point (i.e. a BS5733 or similar fused spur is not used) - although it should be noted that this is almost certainly a breach of the appropriate wiring code (e.g. BS7671 in the UK).


One thing you are missing is that all our plugs have fuses in. It is almost impossible to get smoke out of a power strip here. The only reliable way to smoke one is to remove the fuses & replace with something handy like a section from a 6 inch nail - good old farmers' trick :) Much over 3kW & the fuse goes in the plug. The sort of scenario that Mark had is VERY rare here.

BTW, can you get 3kW safely out of a power strip?

I know of 2kW powerstrips, But 3kW? No. But then We don't need that much I'd think, Not in a house. :D We do have GFCI outlets or this one from the wiki right Here, Which are similar to Your fused outlets.

Looks like Mark could have done with this 3kW:) No, the outlet isn't fused, the plug that goes in it is fused, all the plugs are fused. What I meant was we CAN get 3kW safely & easily out of a power strip.
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Message 983648 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 22:26:55 UTC - in response to Message 983638.  

I can see where you guys have so many power problems.
The main problems over here is back pain lugging round heavy Cast Iron 250/120 volt Mains Transformers on construction sites to comply with regulations.

Also ring mains helps in keeping cable cool as it feeds sockets from two different direction from the same fuse (meeting in the center.

UK power supply L1 N EARTH.

L1 240 volt Neutral 0-6 volts Earth.

What are Your power supply line voltages? L1 120 volt earth 0

Or L1 120 volt earth 0 L2 120 volt .

First is UK 240 volt Second using 120 volt Industrial standard.
1.0 mm2 10 amps Up to 2400 Watts Up to 1200 Watts
1.25 mm2 13 amps Up to 3120 Watts Up to 1560 Watts
1.5 mm2 15 amps Up to 3600 Watts Up to 1800 Watts
2.5 mm2 20 amps Up to 4800 Watts Up to 2400 Watts
4.0 mm2 25 amps Up to 6000 Watts Up to 3000 Watts
6.0 mm2 46 amps Up to 11000 Watts Up to 5500 Watts
10.0mm2 63 amps Up to 15000 Watts Up to 7500 Watts

Michael

I had forgotten about the ring system, seems base housing in Germany was done that way. I believe the base was started by the Brits. Couldn't do that kind of wiring here and I don't feel it is as safe as having one fuse per circuit. Lose a leg and all still works but the amps go way up.

Ring Circuit
The final ring-circuit concept has been criticized in a number of ways, and some of these disadvantages could explain the lack of widespread adoption outside the United Kingdom.

The only way to see the pros and cons of ring circuits is to compare them to the other option: radials.

[edit] Fault conditions are not apparent when in use
Ring circuits continue to operate without the user being aware of any problem if there are fault conditions or installation errors that make the circuit unsafe:[3][4]

Part of the ring missing or loose connections result in 2.5 mm2 cables running above rated current at times, resulting in reduced cable life.[5]
Radials with a loose connection will overheat severely and be an immediate fire risk.
Radials with a broken connection will not function (if L or N broken), or function with no safety earth connection (if E broken).
Accidental cross connection between two 32 A rings means that the fault current protection reaches 64 A and the required fault disconnection times are violated grossly.
Testing at installation addresses this.
Ring spur installations encourage using three connectors in one terminal, which can cause one to become loose and overheat.
The same situation occurs with both radial and ring circuits when branching off is used.
Rings encourage the installation of too many spurs on a ring, leading to a risk of overheating, especially if spur cables are too long without adequate fusing at the spur-point (i.e. a BS5733 or similar fused spur is not used) - although it should be noted that this is almost certainly a breach of the appropriate wiring code (e.g. BS7671 in the UK).


One thing you are missing is that all our plugs have fuses in. It is almost impossible to get smoke out of a power strip here. The only reliable way to smoke one is to remove the fuses & replace with something handy like a section from a 6 inch nail - good old farmers' trick :) Much over 3kW & the fuse goes in the plug. The sort of scenario that Mark had is VERY rare here.

BTW, can you get 3kW safely out of a power strip?

I know of 2kW powerstrips, But 3kW? No. But then We don't need that much I'd think, Not in a house. :D


Could be talking about three 13 amp sockets on the same strip each having a one kilowatt fan heater connected and another with a power strip I've seen this myself in some offices I've been in. Don't forget English voltage of 250 volt 12 amps equals 3 KW as compare to 120 volt 24 amps.

It's amazing what you can find on PAT testing.

Michael

The biggest Amp outlet for a residential(a house) 120v that I've seen is 20 Amps, And sure there are other outlets that could be used for 120v, But their twist locks and those aren't found in any home I've ever seen or lived in, New or Old. And yeah there are higher Amped breakers like 30, 40, 50 & 60 Amp breakers, But usually their used for 240v, Most electricians I've talked to won't wire up a 30A breaker to 120v as I've been told there are no 30A outlets(receptacles) and It would be unsafe as a result, possible fire danger I've been told.
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
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