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Unhappy kitties......
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![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 20 Aug 02 Posts: 3377 Credit: 20,676,751 RAC: 0 ![]() |
My niece asked me to replace the light fixture in her mobile home. She said it would come on but it flickered. Just as I thought, the ground had broken off the socket so I replaced the old fixture for her. When I finished she then mentioned she had an outlet in the kitchen that sparked when she turned on the light plugged into it. I tried it and had no problem with it at all. Plugged and unplugged the light three or four times, turned it on and off with the little rotary switch in the cord a few times, nothing. then she mentioned the garbage disposal did the same thing so I tried it. Worked fine. The only thing I could figure was they were on the same circuit as the bathroom and the bad ground was the cause of it all. Wonder how much it would have cost to have an Electrician do that? Probably would have charged her for all three problems separately. ![]() PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC |
Fred W Send message Joined: 13 Jun 99 Posts: 2524 Credit: 11,954,210 RAC: 0 ![]() |
You maybe saved Your Niece $100.00, maybe. And possibly her mobile home (and her life?) as well. I once (as a student, more years ago than I care to remember!) switched off the main breaker to a hotel kitchen at the start of a holiday weekend when they were due to cater for 100 guests. I refused to switch it back on again because I found that the "buzzing noise" they had noticed was the cable to one of the light switches arcing to the (metal) conduit. Everything in the kitchen was electric. The "handyman" they employed had told them there was "nothing to worry about"!! I was never welcome back in that establishment again... F. ![]() |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 4292 Credit: 72,971,319 RAC: 0 ![]() |
My niece asked me to replace the light fixture in her mobile home. She said it would come on but it flickered. Just as I thought, the ground had broken off the socket so I replaced the old fixture for her. When I finished she then mentioned she had an outlet in the kitchen that sparked when she turned on the light plugged into it. I tried it and had no problem with it at all. Plugged and unplugged the light three or four times, turned it on and off with the little rotary switch in the cord a few times, nothing. then she mentioned the garbage disposal did the same thing so I tried it. Worked fine. The only thing I could figure was they were on the same circuit as the bathroom and the bad ground was the cause of it all. Sorry but her kitchen outlets and especially the disposal should not be on her lighting circuit. I would turn the breakers off and check for a loose wire....probably has stab and jab plugs and they get loose with age. Worth checking. My brother is a licensed bonded Electrical contractor and would have charged $70 for a call like that. So you did her good. Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons... And no good credit hound! ![]() |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 20 Aug 02 Posts: 3377 Credit: 20,676,751 RAC: 0 ![]() |
Sorry but her kitchen outlets and especially the disposal should not be on her lighting circuit. That's what surprised me too. It is a very old trailer in a mobile home park. No telling who might have messed with the wiring over the years. They are on the same breaker. She mentioned blowing a breaker before and both the kitchen and bathroom went out. She tells me all this after I had changed the fixture and checked the outlets. :-) ![]() PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 4292 Credit: 72,971,319 RAC: 0 ![]() |
Sorry but her kitchen outlets and especially the disposal should not be on her lighting circuit. If it is old it is hard telling especially in a trailer. If you live near an Airport or in an area of heavy air travel it is a good idea to turn the panel off every couple years and check screws, we get that a lot around here. Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons... And no good credit hound! ![]() |
Al ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1682 Credit: 477,343,364 RAC: 482 ![]() ![]() |
Mark, one thing you might want to do is put your strip with your low draw stuff on one of your UPS's, to keep your communication up and running, at least for a little while, in hopes that it is just a short outage. Not sure how much wattage it would draw, but I can't imagine it would be too much? Justa thought. ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 14 May 99 Posts: 4438 Credit: 55,006,323 RAC: 0 ![]() |
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![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 15 Mar 01 Posts: 1011 Credit: 230,314,058 RAC: 0 ![]() |
The main thing is being able to walk out of the house to go to work not having to worry if the kitties are safe. That last failure scared the heck out of me. unhappy kitties has been a popular thread, after you get everything running you will need to start a tortured kitties thread as you turn up the OC. so are u starting to get the "shakes" as your RAC drops?!?!? Better safe then cooked kitties:) ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 23 Oct 02 Posts: 5862 Credit: 10,957,677 RAC: 18 ![]() ![]() |
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Wandering Willie Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 136 Credit: 2,127,073 RAC: 0 ![]() |
I can see where you guys have so many power problems. The main problems over here is back pain lugging round heavy Cast Iron 250/120 volt Mains Transformers on construction sites to comply with regulations. Also ring mains helps in keeping cable cool as it feeds sockets from two different direction from the same fuse (meeting in the center. UK power supply L1 N EARTH. L1 240 volt Neutral 0-6 volts Earth. What are Your power supply line voltages? L1 120 volt earth 0 Or L1 120 volt earth 0 L2 120 volt . First is UK 240 volt Second using 120 volt Industrial standard. 1.0 mm2 10 amps Up to 2400 Watts Up to 1200 Watts 1.25 mm2 13 amps Up to 3120 Watts Up to 1560 Watts 1.5 mm2 15 amps Up to 3600 Watts Up to 1800 Watts 2.5 mm2 20 amps Up to 4800 Watts Up to 2400 Watts 4.0 mm2 25 amps Up to 6000 Watts Up to 3000 Watts 6.0 mm2 46 amps Up to 11000 Watts Up to 5500 Watts 10.0mm2 63 amps Up to 15000 Watts Up to 7500 Watts Michael |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 4292 Credit: 72,971,319 RAC: 0 ![]() |
I can see where you guys have so many power problems. I had forgotten about the ring system, seems base housing in Germany was done that way. I believe the base was started by the Brits. Couldn't do that kind of wiring here and I don't feel it is as safe as having one fuse per circuit. Lose a leg and all still works but the amps go way up. Ring Circuit The final ring-circuit concept has been criticized in a number of ways, and some of these disadvantages could explain the lack of widespread adoption outside the United Kingdom. The only way to see the pros and cons of ring circuits is to compare them to the other option: radials. [edit] Fault conditions are not apparent when in use Ring circuits continue to operate without the user being aware of any problem if there are fault conditions or installation errors that make the circuit unsafe:[3][4] Part of the ring missing or loose connections result in 2.5 mm2 cables running above rated current at times, resulting in reduced cable life.[5] Radials with a loose connection will overheat severely and be an immediate fire risk. Radials with a broken connection will not function (if L or N broken), or function with no safety earth connection (if E broken). Accidental cross connection between two 32 A rings means that the fault current protection reaches 64 A and the required fault disconnection times are violated grossly. Testing at installation addresses this. Ring spur installations encourage using three connectors in one terminal, which can cause one to become loose and overheat. The same situation occurs with both radial and ring circuits when branching off is used. Rings encourage the installation of too many spurs on a ring, leading to a risk of overheating, especially if spur cables are too long without adequate fusing at the spur-point (i.e. a BS5733 or similar fused spur is not used) - although it should be noted that this is almost certainly a breach of the appropriate wiring code (e.g. BS7671 in the UK). Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons... And no good credit hound! ![]() |
Dena Wiltsie Send message Joined: 19 Apr 01 Posts: 1628 Credit: 24,230,968 RAC: 26 ![]() ![]() |
We use a single run to all the points on the circuit without any loops. Our power delivery looks like this and we have neutral and safety ground which are at some point tied together but in newer wiring are run with a wire for each. In some older wiring only two wires were run with ground and neutral being the same wire. Most of the house is wired as 110-125 but 220-250 is available for high draw items such as stoves, heat pumps, air conditioners, electric dryers, electric water heaters and in some cases electric cars. Three phase is reserved for industrial and transmission applications and most of the time can't be had at a residential location. Runs must be the same gauge from start to end and anytime there is a change in gauge, there needs to be a fuse or breaker. Most of the time a leg will run between 117 and 125 volts but it can vary depending on where you live and how much power your neighbors are drawing and how much wire you have out. Often if you have a real voltage problem, you call the power company out and they will clean it up. Our condo was not having any trouble but some of our neighbors must have because the power company just came out and replaced our under ground wiring without conduit with underground wiring with conduit. All of it was under pavement so we were driving over trenches for about a month and a half while they did the work. |
Dena Wiltsie Send message Joined: 19 Apr 01 Posts: 1628 Credit: 24,230,968 RAC: 26 ![]() ![]() |
We use a single run to all the points on the circuit without any loops. Our power delivery looks like this and we have neutral and safety ground which are at some point tied together but in newer wiring are run with a wire for each. In some older wiring only two wires were run with ground and neutral being the same wire. Most of the house is wired as 110-125 but 220-250 is available for high draw items such as stoves, heat pumps, air conditioners, electric dryers, electric water heaters and in some cases electric cars. Three phase is reserved for industrial and transmission applications and most of the time can't be had at a residential location. Best you can do at the breaker box would be 220. That type of voltage would be available at the transformer but it would cost you to get it to the house. I also suspect code in most places would not allow it to be run to the house but that may change as electric cars become available. I also question if it's a good idea because most of the time when you fast charge batteries they don't last as long. Most of the time a 3 or 4 hour charge is about as fast as you want to charge for long life. It may also be that the 25 minute time is a charge up to 70% or 80%. The last part of the charge is where the damage is done. |
![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 23 Oct 02 Posts: 5862 Credit: 10,957,677 RAC: 18 ![]() ![]() |
Put my name on the "interested" list for one of these. Would be great as a second car for local runs. edit - surely you can get 480V easily enough using a step up transformer - depending what sort of current you wanted... |
Dena Wiltsie Send message Joined: 19 Apr 01 Posts: 1628 Credit: 24,230,968 RAC: 26 ![]() ![]() |
I checked the web site and a 26 minute charge only takes you up to 80%. If you are eating lunch while you charge you could end up with as much as 90% by the time you are ready to hit the road again. Stepping up to 480 from 220 would not solve the problem because what you are after is the watts. If they are using 480 it's because they are unable to get the current through the connection when running 220. The web site also said you had the option between a 20 amp and 40 amp 220 connection and with the 40 amp your charge time is reduced to 4 hours. It didn't say how fast you could hit the 80% mark. It's hard to calculate that without knowing how much they cut back the charge rate for the last 20%. |
FiveHamlet ![]() Send message Joined: 5 Oct 99 Posts: 783 Credit: 32,638,578 RAC: 0 ![]() |
To be built by Nissen in the U.K. And has no one heard of RCD's ? Dave ![]() |
![]() Send message Joined: 8 May 03 Posts: 91 Credit: 15,331,177 RAC: 0 ![]() |
I can see where you guys have so many power problems. One thing you are missing is that all our plugs have fuses in. It is almost impossible to get smoke out of a power strip here. The only reliable way to smoke one is to remove the fuses & replace with something handy like a section from a 6 inch nail - good old farmers' trick :) Much over 3kW & the fuse goes in the plug. The sort of scenario that Mark had is VERY rare here. BTW, can you get 3kW safely out of a power strip? |
Wandering Willie Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 136 Credit: 2,127,073 RAC: 0 ![]() |
I can see where you guys have so many power problems. Could be talking about three 13 amp sockets on the same strip each having a one kilowatt fan heater connected and another with a power strip I've seen this myself in some offices I've been in. Don't forget English voltage of 250 volt 12 amps equals 3 KW as compare to 120 volt 24 amps. It's amazing what you can find on PAT testing. Michael |
![]() Send message Joined: 8 May 03 Posts: 91 Credit: 15,331,177 RAC: 0 ![]() |
I can see where you guys have so many power problems. Looks like Mark could have done with this 3kW:) No, the outlet isn't fused, the plug that goes in it is fused, all the plugs are fused. What I meant was we CAN get 3kW safely & easily out of a power strip. |
1mp0£173 Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 8423 Credit: 356,897 RAC: 0 ![]() |
Most electricians I've talked to won't wire up a 30A breaker to 120v as I've been told there are no 30A outlets(receptacles) and It would be unsafe as a result, possible fire danger I've been told. 120v 30a receptacles do exist. NEMA L5-30R (with NEMA L5-30P to match). They are twist locks, and aren't often seen in a residential setting. If you had a workshop, you might have a tool (compressor, large saw, planer) that could have an L5-30 plug. Larger UPSes have them as the UPS cannot draw more than 80% of the line capacity. |
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