Free Market Healthcare

Message boards : Politics : Free Market Healthcare
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

1 · 2 · 3 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Robert Waite
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Oct 07
Posts: 2417
Credit: 18,192,122
RAC: 59
Canada
Message 973806 - Posted: 25 Feb 2010, 17:46:41 UTC

My question to all the American SETI@Home folks...
How's the Free Market Healthcare working out for you?

Here's some interesting reading on health insurance rate increases coming down on you or your employer.

California: Average rates are expected to increase 25 percent in 2010,
with increases as high as 39 percent for some policyholders.
Colorado: Average rates are expected to increase 19.9 percent in 2010,
with increases of up to 24.5 percent for some policyholders.
Connecticut: State regulators approved an up to 20 percent increase for
certain policyholders in 2009 after WellPoint’s subsidiary requested rate
hikes from 22 percent to 32 percent.
Georgia: Average rate increases were 21 percent in 2009. Georgia Insurance
Commissioner John Oxendine said the same percentage increase is
expected for 2010.
Indiana: Rates are expected to increase 21 percent in 2010.
Kentucky: Rates for individual policyholders with Anthem’s PPF/FFS plan
increased 3 percent in July 2009.6
Maine: Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield requested a 23 percent
increase for 2010 after five straight years of double-digit increases for
individual policyholders. Anthem is suing the Maine Insurance Commissioner
for rejecting its request last year for an 18.5 percent rate hike and
allowing a 10.9 percent increase.
Missouri: No data available. WellPoint did not respond to CAP Action
requests for data.
Nevada: The Nevada Division of Insurance approved roughly a 13 percent
overall rate increase for Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield in 2009.7
New Hampshire: Average rates are expected to increase between 12
percent and 13 percent. There was a 17 percent increase in 2009 for small
business premiums.
New York: Rates are expected to increase 13.2 percent to 17.2 percent,
depending on the health plan.
Ohio: Average individual rates are expected to decline 40 percent in 2010
due to a new state law that went into effect in 2010.
Virginia: Rates are expected to increase 7 percent to 15 percent.8
Wisconsin: Certain individual health plan rates are expected to increase
17.2 percent.9
Recent premium changes in the individual market from WellPoint Inc. subsidiaries by state

Universal Single Payer sure starts to sound even more appealing after this.


I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
ID: 973806 · Report as offensive
Profile Robert Waite
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Oct 07
Posts: 2417
Credit: 18,192,122
RAC: 59
Canada
Message 973808 - Posted: 25 Feb 2010, 17:48:48 UTC

Here's a link to the full article I lifted those numbers from

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2010/02/pdf/wellpoint.pdf
I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
ID: 973808 · Report as offensive
Profile skildude
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 00
Posts: 9541
Credit: 50,759,529
RAC: 60
Yemen
Message 973850 - Posted: 25 Feb 2010, 20:01:30 UTC - in response to Message 973808.  

Though I like the idea of single payer, I would like to point out that a few of the statistics you pointed to talk about individual insured rates which are generally much higher than the corporate accounts such as I have from my work.

With that said, I reviewed my medical insurance including dental and optical and found that the optical insurance had changed hands. the cost was the same however I am limited to 3-4 opthamologists in the county. also they eliminated a great deal of the benefit. no more free transition lens. Now its $75

my medical insurance payments rose about $5 a month, same copay but higher deductibles and again decreased office visit privledges. Seems every year the Insurance companies want more give less and demand that you take it like a man. Eventually, I will come to a point where its cheaper for me to not pay the Insurance and just pay for my office visits out of pocket.


In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope
ID: 973850 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 29419
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 973945 - Posted: 26 Feb 2010, 4:43:37 UTC - in response to Message 973806.  

My question to all the American SETI@Home folks...
How's the Free Market Healthcare working out for you?

Here's some interesting reading on health insurance rate increases coming down on you or your employer.
[snip]
Universal Single Payer sure starts to sound even more appealing after this.

The increase on that will run up to infinite percent.

ID: 973945 · Report as offensive
Profile hiamps
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 May 99
Posts: 4292
Credit: 72,971,319
RAC: 0
United States
Message 974044 - Posted: 26 Feb 2010, 14:40:49 UTC

Seems things have just gone downhill from here and NO US Presidents care enough to do away with it....

"President Nixon appeased the left and proposed the HMO Act, which Congress passed in 1973. The law created new, supposedly cheaper health coverage with millions of dollars to HMOs, which, until then, constituted a small portion of the market. Kaiser Permanente was the only major HMO in the country by 1969 and most of its members were compelled to join through unions."

This was made to help insurance companies and still does.
Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!
ID: 974044 · Report as offensive
AC
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Jan 05
Posts: 3413
Credit: 119,579
RAC: 0
United States
Message 978846 - Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 2:09:37 UTC

Map of health care systems around the world.

Map

Map from Wikipedia
ID: 978846 · Report as offensive
Profile skildude
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 00
Posts: 9541
Credit: 50,759,529
RAC: 60
Yemen
Message 978849 - Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 2:17:54 UTC - in response to Message 978846.  

perfect its the US all of africa and most Muslim countries that dont have universal or single payer healthcare


In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope
ID: 978849 · Report as offensive
AC
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Jan 05
Posts: 3413
Credit: 119,579
RAC: 0
United States
Message 978872 - Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 4:50:53 UTC - in response to Message 978849.  

perfect its the US all of africa and most Muslim countries that dont have universal or single payer healthcare


Yeah most developed counrties have some kind of universal public health care system or some other system where part of the cost is covered and/or kept down.
ID: 978872 · Report as offensive
Dena Wiltsie
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Apr 01
Posts: 1628
Credit: 24,230,968
RAC: 26
United States
Message 978895 - Posted: 15 Mar 2010, 7:05:38 UTC
Last modified: 15 Mar 2010, 7:09:35 UTC

When I was a kid it worked great but the more the government plays with it the more problems it has. Our drug cost are higher because other countries get their drugs at a reduced rate causing us to pay development cost for new drugs. Legal jackpots cause higher insurance rates to doctors and insurance payers. Government medical under payment causes cost to be passed on to to those of us who don't have some form of government payment. If you don't have insurance and are unable to pay, you just walk into the hospital and everybody else who needs medical care and can pay will pay for your medical care. People with insurance often over use the insurance because it cost them nothing to use the insurance.
In my case I have a HMO that I use as a catastrophic policy because my doctor is not covered by the policy. In the time we have had the policy, they have given me 6 doctors but by paying out of pocket I have had 2 doctors in the last 32 years and thats because one retired.
It wouldn't take much to fix the problems but Obama's 2000 page take over of health care will only cause me more problems because I fear my doctor will quit instead of dealing with the government.
I am lucky because the few health problems I have are minor problems treated with antibiotics. Few people in this country do without medical care but we do have cost issues that need to be addressed.
ID: 978895 · Report as offensive
Profile zoom3+1=4
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 03
Posts: 64942
Credit: 55,293,173
RAC: 49
United States
Message 982604 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 0:56:33 UTC

‘Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act’. or HR3590
I found this and It says a lot and of course 10 State Republican AGs are filing lawsuits against this new Bill which was passed fair and square as It was on C-Span live on Sunday(to be signed on Tuesday), the Reconciliation Bill will be voted on by the US Senate on Tuesday sometime. For more accurate info, See the link below.
http://www.opencongress.org/senate_health_care_bill
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/showSenate Bill to be signed by President Obama
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h4872/showReconciliation Bill to amend HR3590

Open Congress.org wrote:
The health care bill that is going to be signed into law tomorrow requires all Members of Congress and congressional staffers to ditch their cushy Federal Employee Health Benefits insurance plans and buy insurance on the new health care exchanges. They would have the same insurance options available to them as everyone else in the individual insurance market.


http://www.opencongress.org/

Open Congress.org wrote:
    ‘Sec. 2711. No lifetime or annual limits.
    ‘Sec. 2712. Prohibition on rescissions.
    ‘Sec. 2713. Coverage of preventive health services.
    ‘Sec. 2714. Extension of dependent coverage.
    ‘Sec. 2715. Development and utilization of uniform explanation
                 of coverage documents and standardized definitions.
    ‘Sec. 2716. Prohibition of discrimination based on salary.
    ‘Sec. 2717. Ensuring the quality of care.
    ‘Sec. 2718. Bringing down the cost of health care coverage.
    ‘Sec. 2719. Appeals process.
            Sec. 1002. Health insurance consumer information.
            Sec. 1003. Ensuring that consumers get value for their dollars.

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
ID: 982604 · Report as offensive
Profile zoom3+1=4
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 03
Posts: 64942
Credit: 55,293,173
RAC: 49
United States
Message 982611 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 1:12:22 UTC

Here's something from the Washington Post on what the CBO says(Congressional Budget Office):

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/how_big_is_the_bill_really.html?hpid=topnews

Washington Post wrote:
The $900 billion price tag is repeated with
the regularity of a rooster's crow. That's a shame, as the number is, somewhat
impressively, misleading in both directions.

On the one hand, that $900 billion -- or, more precisely, $940 billion in the
final legislation -- is stretched over 10 years. But people don't think in
10-year increments. They don't pay taxes once a decade. Put more simply,
the bill will cost an average of $94 billion a year over the first 10 years.


So It looks like Republican big wigs have been trying to hood wink people as They've said $1 Trillion, $2.5 Trillion, $2.6 Trillion(on C-Span on Sunday) and some people said $10 Trillion, When It's only $94 Billion a Year which is far smaller than a Trillion.

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
ID: 982611 · Report as offensive
Profile rebest Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Apr 00
Posts: 1296
Credit: 45,357,093
RAC: 0
United States
Message 982622 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 1:29:32 UTC - in response to Message 978846.  

Map of health care systems around the world.

Map

Map from Wikipedia


Yeah! We're right there with Mongolia!





Join the PACK!
ID: 982622 · Report as offensive
Profile zoom3+1=4
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 03
Posts: 64942
Credit: 55,293,173
RAC: 49
United States
Message 982625 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 1:36:36 UTC - in response to Message 982622.  
Last modified: 23 Mar 2010, 1:37:18 UTC

Map of health care systems around the world.

Map

Map from Wikipedia


Yeah! We're right there with Mongolia!




Technically Outer Mongolia, What was passed with Republican input and then Republican take backs(Used to be called Indian Giving once, But that phrase isn't popular anymore). It'll be signed into law over objections from a Bunch of Sore Losers. And It seems they(the Republican Party Officials) like Corporate and Rich Wall Street backers, as guess where their money comes from and soon in ever increasing amounts?
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
ID: 982625 · Report as offensive
Profile rebest Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Apr 00
Posts: 1296
Credit: 45,357,093
RAC: 0
United States
Message 982635 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 1:59:28 UTC - in response to Message 978895.  

When I was a kid it worked great but the more the government plays with it the more problems it has. Our drug cost are higher because other countries get their drugs at a reduced rate causing us to pay development cost for new drugs. Legal jackpots cause higher insurance rates to doctors and insurance payers. Government medical under payment causes cost to be passed on to to those of us who don't have some form of government payment. If you don't have insurance and are unable to pay, you just walk into the hospital and everybody else who needs medical care and can pay will pay for your medical care. People with insurance often over use the insurance because it cost them nothing to use the insurance.
In my case I have a HMO that I use as a catastrophic policy because my doctor is not covered by the policy. In the time we have had the policy, they have given me 6 doctors but by paying out of pocket I have had 2 doctors in the last 32 years and thats because one retired.
It wouldn't take much to fix the problems but Obama's 2000 page take over of health care will only cause me more problems because I fear my doctor will quit instead of dealing with the government.
I am lucky because the few health problems I have are minor problems treated with antibiotics. Few people in this country do without medical care but we do have cost issues that need to be addressed.


My doctor did quit. Seven years ago. He was only 51. Board certified internist and a damn good doctor. He also had no intention of doing so.

He could no longer stand dealing with the health insurance companies. He got tired of having to pay 2 people who did nothing but handle insurance claims from multiple companies all day. He said that half of his claims were either denied or questioned, typically by clerks with no medical training. I remember him holding up my file, which contained over 15 years of my medical history. He pointed out that his knowledge of me and my needs were much greater than Blue Cross, but he had to do what they tell him or risk not getting paid. He said that he wished that everyone were covered by Medicare. There was one set of rules. Doctors knew what they were, what the compensation would be, and actually got paid.

Unfortunately, the US only took the first step toward genuine health care reform. But it was step. All this law does is reign in insurance company abuses and require participation. On the whole, my insurance company is very happy. We have lots of uninsured in North Carolina and Blue Cross controls the vast majority of the market. They're going to have a bunch of new customers!

The next step (in my opinion) should be medical malpractice tort reform. Let's hope it doesn't take another 45 years.







Join the PACK!
ID: 982635 · Report as offensive
Profile zoom3+1=4
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 03
Posts: 64942
Credit: 55,293,173
RAC: 49
United States
Message 982637 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 2:16:00 UTC - in response to Message 982635.  
Last modified: 23 Mar 2010, 2:19:15 UTC

When I was a kid it worked great but the more the government plays with it the more problems it has. Our drug cost are higher because other countries get their drugs at a reduced rate causing us to pay development cost for new drugs. Legal jackpots cause higher insurance rates to doctors and insurance payers. Government medical under payment causes cost to be passed on to to those of us who don't have some form of government payment. If you don't have insurance and are unable to pay, you just walk into the hospital and everybody else who needs medical care and can pay will pay for your medical care. People with insurance often over use the insurance because it cost them nothing to use the insurance.
In my case I have a HMO that I use as a catastrophic policy because my doctor is not covered by the policy. In the time we have had the policy, they have given me 6 doctors but by paying out of pocket I have had 2 doctors in the last 32 years and thats because one retired.
It wouldn't take much to fix the problems but Obama's 2000 page take over of health care will only cause me more problems because I fear my doctor will quit instead of dealing with the government.
I am lucky because the few health problems I have are minor problems treated with antibiotics. Few people in this country do without medical care but we do have cost issues that need to be addressed.


My doctor did quit. Seven years ago. He was only 51. Board certified internist and a damn good doctor. He also had no intention of doing so.

He could no longer stand dealing with the health insurance companies. He got tired of having to pay 2 people who did nothing but handle insurance claims from multiple companies all day. He said that half of his claims were either denied or questioned, typically by clerks with no medical training. I remember him holding up my file, which contained over 15 years of my medical history. He pointed out that his knowledge of me and my needs were much greater than Blue Cross, but he had to do what they tell him or risk not getting paid. He said that he wished that everyone were covered by Medicare. There was one set of rules. Doctors knew what they were, what the compensation would be, and actually got paid.

Unfortunately, the US only took the first step toward genuine health care reform. But it was step. All this law does is reign in insurance company abuses and require participation. On the whole, my insurance company is very happy. We have lots of uninsured in North Carolina and Blue Cross controls the vast majority of the market. They're going to have a bunch of new customers!

The next step (in my opinion) should be medical malpractice tort reform. Let's hope it doesn't take another 45 years.






Actually If You want to reign in Medical costs look at the Supplies, I should know, I have 3 Titanium screws in Me that cost Me about $5,000.00 a piece(I don't know the actual cost of the screws, But It ain't cheap), Dr Sanjay Gupta on CNN has a story on that Here(Flash Video on the page). Tort has been pushed by Republicans for Years, If You couldn't work anymore and You needed to be supported as some do, How would one do It without money?

I just gained weight after My surgery, I have most movement back in My left ankle, But too much and the ankle goes into intense pain mode and so I can only walk so far and I use a cane to go up or down steps and to get out of My car or on uneven ground, If I were at Disneyland like I was in 2007, I'd be in a Wheelchair(I was pushed around too).
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
ID: 982637 · Report as offensive
Profile zoom3+1=4
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 03
Posts: 64942
Credit: 55,293,173
RAC: 49
United States
Message 982654 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 2:50:49 UTC
Last modified: 23 Mar 2010, 2:55:10 UTC

It seems Republicans like to lie and leave things out, Rep Ryan especially according to the "thehill.com".

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/87987-cbo-says-health-bill-increases-deficits-under-rep-ryans-assumptions
CBO wrote:
CBO says health bill increases deficits under Rep. Ryan's assumptions
By Walter Alarkon - 03/19/10 08:01 PM ET

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said the healthcare bill would add billions to the country's debt if lawmakers ignore the bill's cost constraints, as Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) expects them to do.

Under the scenario painted by Ryan, CBO said the healthcare bill's $138 billion in savings over 10 years would disappear because the government would: extend the current Medicare doctor payment rate instead of allowing it to expire; allow health insurance subsidies to grow at a sustained rate; and fail to implement a tax on high-cost health plans and an independent Medicare advisory board, two measures aimed at constraining federal health costs.

The CBO made those estimates, released Friday, at the request of Ryan.

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
ID: 982654 · Report as offensive
Profile John Clark
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 99
Posts: 16515
Credit: 4,418,829
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 982723 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 9:58:47 UTC
Last modified: 23 Mar 2010, 9:59:17 UTC

There was a report 2 days ago on the cost of the US medical/insurance sectors, and this was put at between $1.5 trillion and $2.0 trillion dollars per year. This made it the 6th largest business sector in the world. Unfortunately, medical and insurance inflation (the pace at which costs rise) is put at between 15% and 30% annually.

Doing projections on this rate of inflation, it was calculated the medical sector would require virtually the entire domestic income of the US within 25 years, leaving nothing to other productive sectors.

What a monster.
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



ID: 982723 · Report as offensive
Profile zoom3+1=4
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 03
Posts: 64942
Credit: 55,293,173
RAC: 49
United States
Message 982768 - Posted: 23 Mar 2010, 14:13:34 UTC - in response to Message 982723.  
Last modified: 23 Mar 2010, 14:14:56 UTC

There was a report 2 days ago on the cost of the US medical/insurance sectors, and this was put at between $1.5 trillion and $2.0 trillion dollars per year. This made it the 6th largest business sector in the world. Unfortunately, medical and insurance inflation (the pace at which costs rise) is put at between 15% and 30% annually.

Doing projections on this rate of inflation, it was calculated the medical sector would require virtually the entire domestic income of the US within 25 years, leaving nothing to other productive sectors.

What a monster.

And one that likes Profit over almost everything else and that wants to preserve It at almost any cost too. Oh and profit isn't a bad thing, It's just bad when taken to the extreme, As is anything else, Can You say they need a Mod?
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
ID: 982768 · Report as offensive
AC
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Jan 05
Posts: 3413
Credit: 119,579
RAC: 0
United States
Message 983471 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 10:39:26 UTC

Okay, a couple of years ago I wouldn't have said this but if you want real solutions, here they are (quite radical):

1. Private companies are forbidden from owning or operating clinics or hospitals.

2. Private health insurance companies are forbidden from being involved in health care. These companies will of course cease to exist.

3. The money to pay for hospitals, doctors and nurses as well as essential supplies does not come from the free market economy; instead, all money or credit will simply be created and provided by the government.

4. Taxes will not be collected from clinics or hospitals.

5. Taxes will not be collected from doctors and nurses.

6. No taxes are collected from pharmaceutical companies or companies manufacturing medical equipment or devices.

7. Massive research programs to find disease cures.

8. Create committees to improve efficiency and make the quality of care better.


ID: 983471 · Report as offensive
AC
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Jan 05
Posts: 3413
Credit: 119,579
RAC: 0
United States
Message 983508 - Posted: 25 Mar 2010, 13:54:19 UTC - in response to Message 982637.  

Dr Sanjay Gupta on CNN has a story on that Here(Flash Video on the page).


The prices for those things do sound ridiculous so I'm wondering what the prices for equivalent products are. For the titanium screws too.

Dr. Gupta was also talking about the cost for covering people that don't have insurance or can't pay. This is a huge problem. It means that health care is a reality only for those that can afford it. It's even a problem for the many people with private policies that may not cover serious illness or long term treatments. Then there's the people that can't get insurance because of preexisting conditions that they or their family members might have and those that get dropped when they start costing the insurance company too much. A lot of people.
ID: 983508 · Report as offensive
1 · 2 · 3 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Free Market Healthcare


 
©2022 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.