To Admin:
I want to see the proof that all this has taken place. ... You brought this to the public eye, I want to see the proof in public. How about it Admin, care to reveal your "evidence", in public?

That evidence contains user information that we are not allowed to make public.

SIGNED: a concerned SETI citizen

aka 26 of 30, which makes me wonder if you really want the evidence.

Hey.... I thought I was 26 of 30. Dont tell me I've remembered my number wrong. Which of us is confused Eric?

Nope, you are 25 of 30!

You don't even remember your own number?



What a talented crowd! My God, this is hilarious, pure comedy!

Thanks for the correction...And while your laughing,laugh at this:

A bunch of incompetents discovered and revealed your and your mates corrupt modding practices and got you all de modded.

After all you all werent sacked for doing a great job were you?

DOUBLE LMAO

Thanks for the correction...And while your laughing,laugh at this:

A bunch of incompetents discovered and revealed your and your mates corrupt modding practices and got you all de modded.

After all you all werent sacked for doing a great job were you?

DOUBLE LMAO

Your mole got de-modded. Every moderator associated with your gang got de-modded. This all happened long before the moderators you don't like were rotated out in an orderly fashion. The rotation policy, far from being caused by you, as you suggest, was none of your doing. You didn't get anyone sacked, and in fact, some of us (but none of you) may be back as moderators. That deserves a TRIPLE LMAO.

Just trying to set the record straight.

Thanks for the correction...And while your laughing,laugh at this:

A bunch of incompetents discovered and revealed your and your mates corrupt modding practices and got you all de modded.

After all you all werent sacked for doing a great job were you?

DOUBLE LMAO

Your mole got de-modded. Every moderator associated with your gang got de-modded. This all happened long before the moderators you don't like were rotated out in an orderly fashion. The rotation policy, far from being caused by you, as you suggest, was none of your doing. You didn't get anyone sacked, and in fact, some of us (but none of you) may be back as moderators. That deserves a TRIPLE LMAO.

Just trying to set the record straight.

Try harder!

You didn't get anyone sacked, and in fact, some of us (but none of you) may be back as moderators. That deserves a TRIPLE LMAO.

Do you think these types of comments help the modteam-du-jour, or harm it? Similarly, does this lend confidence to the actions of anyone who might return?

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

You don't really want us to answer that do you Rush?

I have a bad feeling...

---

Never surrender and never give up. In the darkest hour there is always hope.

I am truely amazed that things have gotten so darn messed up over here. It not like Matt and the guys have all the money in the world or time to watch every thing that goes on here. Back when I started in 1999 we had very few of the luxuries we have now. Mostly a few boards to post in, and they seemed to crash more than they stayed up. Knowing that none of us alive might have a chance to actually get that signal, with the advent of Boinc the administration opened up a considerable amount of forums for us so that we, as a community could come together and work with each other to solve problems and/or just get to know each other. The popularity is such that on their shoestring budget they allowed some of the people here to take an active role in helping moderate the boards.

Once again human nature has shown us that while there are many good folks out there that would do anything to help, there are also those that seem to think they are priviledged and abuse the trust that was placed in them. Not only did they abuse that trust that was given to them they "MAY" have committed a grievious crime in the process. This whole escapade has the pontiential to not only ruin the ruputation of the administtration, but the validity of anything done here.

People are upset because friends are now banned, others are upset because they were abused on the boards, still others have had their personal information released in the wild. Maybe everyone really does have a beef with this whole mess, but I think everyone needs to stand back, take a breather and look at the whole picture. This has the potential to destroy all the hard work done by so many people, least of all the project admins and scientists. It could quite easily come to a point where the project, the university don't need this type of negative view of the whole situation and decide to close things down and make it a very private enterprise (research project) with no imput for any of the general public. In which case we all LOSE....... At the very least of which they could shut down all the forums to try to not have this sort of thing happen again.

With as much as everyone has pushed over the years for project scientists and admins to be an active part in this endevor we will lose that unique perspective of what is actually going on in the project.

This could very well be just one more example of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bushell for the rest of us. Rather than fighting amoungst ourselves and trying to crusify those that are responsible, we need to see what was done, how it can be avoided in the future and quite possibly what can we do as a community to try and salavge what good reputation this project has and try to make it a model for all the others out there that follow our example.

Just my personal opinion. Hopefully shared by enough others to make a difference.

Arion

---

I am truely amazed that things have gotten so darn messed up over here. It not like Matt and the guys have all the money in the world or time to watch every thing that goes on here. Back when I started in 1999 we had very few of the luxuries we have now. Mostly a few boards to post in, and they seemed to crash more than they stayed up. Knowing that none of us alive might have a chance to actually get that signal, with the advent of Boinc the administration opened up a considerable amount of forums for us so that we, as a community could come together and work with each other to solve problems and/or just get to know each other. The popularity is such that on their shoestring budget they allowed some of the people here to take an active role in helping moderate the boards.

Once again human nature has shown us that while there are many good folks out there that would do anything to help, there are also those that seem to think they are priviledged and abuse the trust that was placed in them. Not only did they abuse that trust that was given to them they "MAY" have committed a grievious crime in the process. This whole escapade has the pontiential to not only ruin the ruputation of the administtration, but the validity of anything done here.

People are upset because friends are now banned, others are upset because they were abused on the boards, still others have had their personal information released in the wild. Maybe everyone really does have a beef with this whole mess, but I think everyone needs to stand back, take a breather and look at the whole picture. This has the potential to destroy all the hard work done by so many people, least of all the project admins and scientists. It could quite easily come to a point where the project, the university don't need this type of negative view of the whole situation and decide to close things down and make it a very private enterprise (research project) with no imput for any of the general public. In which case we all LOSE....... At the very least of which they could shut down all the forums to try to not have this sort of thing happen again.

With as much as everyone has pushed over the years for project scientists and admins to be an active part in this endevor we will lose that unique perspective of what is actually going on in the project.

This could very well be just one more example of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bushell for the rest of us. Rather than fighting amoungst ourselves and trying to crusify those that are responsible, we need to see what was done, how it can be avoided in the future and quite possibly what can we do as a community to try and salavge what good reputation this project has and try to make it a model for all the others out there that follow our example.

Just my personal opinion. Hopefully shared by enough others to make a difference.

Arion

Seconded.

I am truely amazed that things have gotten so darn messed up over here. It not like Matt and the guys have all the money in the world or time to watch every thing that goes on here. Back when I started in 1999 we had very few of the luxuries we have now. Mostly a few boards to post in, and they seemed to crash more than they stayed up. Knowing that none of us alive might have a chance to actually get that signal, with the advent of Boinc the administration opened up a considerable amount of forums for us so that we, as a community could come together and work with each other to solve problems and/or just get to know each other. The popularity is such that on their shoestring budget they allowed some of the people here to take an active role in helping moderate the boards.

Once again human nature has shown us that while there are many good folks out there that would do anything to help, there are also those that seem to think they are priviledged and abuse the trust that was placed in them. Not only did they abuse that trust that was given to them they "MAY" have committed a grievious crime in the process. This whole escapade has the pontiential to not only ruin the ruputation of the administtration, but the validity of anything done here.

People are upset because friends are now banned, others are upset because they were abused on the boards, still others have had their personal information released in the wild. Maybe everyone really does have a beef with this whole mess, but I think everyone needs to stand back, take a breather and look at the whole picture. This has the potential to destroy all the hard work done by so many people, least of all the project admins and scientists. It could quite easily come to a point where the project, the university don't need this type of negative view of the whole situation and decide to close things down and make it a very private enterprise (research project) with no imput for any of the general public. In which case we all LOSE....... At the very least of which they could shut down all the forums to try to not have this sort of thing happen again.

With as much as everyone has pushed over the years for project scientists and admins to be an active part in this endevor we will lose that unique perspective of what is actually going on in the project.

This could very well be just one more example of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bushell for the rest of us. Rather than fighting amoungst ourselves and trying to crusify those that are responsible, we need to see what was done, how it can be avoided in the future and quite possibly what can we do as a community to try and salavge what good reputation this project has and try to make it a model for all the others out there that follow our example.

Just my personal opinion. Hopefully shared by enough others to make a difference.

Arion

The above statement is one we should all copy, print out & stick alongside our monitors lest we forget why we are all here.

Well stated Arion.

---

If DLB worked for SETI instead of Predictor a lot more would have been done here.

lmao!

Ya, we'd all be history by now...

Yeah! His ways of permabanning people are much more effective than we have seen here.

I would never have thought I would say this, but I would have liked to see more of what he did at Predictor here.

I know that not everyone's happy with all the terminations of contracts here on SETI, but I think it's a misjudgment to suggest that the administrative and moderation style and methods used on that particular BOINC project could ever or should ever be used here or indeed anywhere else in BoincLandia.

Surely everyone here wants to see fewer or ideally no apparently arbitrary actions, not more. More explanation of actions, not less. More investigation of problems, not less.

Mo

What I do get is at the bottom of every seti@home page is a copyright notice of the University of California, which leads me to suspect that you "don't get it". You may say that Matt and the other admins are the owners of these boards, but that notice suggests otherwise.

Bobby, your argument is absurd.

Anyone who has legal access to the administration privileges has every right to exercise their will over the forum just like you have every right to dictate who can come into your own house REGARDLESS of who you "usually" allow to come over.

Welcome back BrainSmashr. Your analogy may be overly simplistic. I have legal admin privs on a number of systems owned by my employers, this, however, does not grant me every right to exercise my will over who has access to these systems.

Really?

I would think that as a system admin, a VERY important part of your job is to provide and maintain security. This would include blocking access to active as well as potential threats, which would be at your discretion....it's your job.

Correct?

---

Wow. There must be some very rock hard evidence to take action like this. It just goes to show you need to be very careful who you make friends with on the boards and where you get invited to go. Our dear friend Dennis was no saint, but the actions of Ice, iX, Beekeeper, all (aka Anton) need to be condemned in the strongest possible terms.

---

Paul
(S@H1 8888)
And proud of it!

I am truely amazed that things have gotten so darn messed up over here. It not like Matt and the guys have all the money in the world or time to watch every thing that goes on here. Back when I started in 1999 we had very few of the luxuries we have now. Mostly a few boards to post in, and they seemed to crash more than they stayed up. Knowing that none of us alive might have a chance to actually get that signal, with the advent of Boinc the administration opened up a considerable amount of forums for us so that we, as a community could come together and work with each other to solve problems and/or just get to know each other. The popularity is such that on their shoestring budget they allowed some of the people here to take an active role in helping moderate the boards.

Once again human nature has shown us that while there are many good folks out there that would do anything to help, there are also those that seem to think they are priviledged and abuse the trust that was placed in them. Not only did they abuse that trust that was given to them they "MAY" have committed a grievious crime in the process. This whole escapade has the pontiential to not only ruin the ruputation of the administtration, but the validity of anything done here.

People are upset because friends are now banned, others are upset because they were abused on the boards, still others have had their personal information released in the wild. Maybe everyone really does have a beef with this whole mess, but I think everyone needs to stand back, take a breather and look at the whole picture. This has the potential to destroy all the hard work done by so many people, least of all the project admins and scientists. It could quite easily come to a point where the project, the university don't need this type of negative view of the whole situation and decide to close things down and make it a very private enterprise (research project) with no imput for any of the general public. In which case we all LOSE....... At the very least of which they could shut down all the forums to try to not have this sort of thing happen again.

With as much as everyone has pushed over the years for project scientists and admins to be an active part in this endevor we will lose that unique perspective of what is actually going on in the project.

This could very well be just one more example of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bushell for the rest of us. Rather than fighting amoungst ourselves and trying to crusify those that are responsible, we need to see what was done, how it can be avoided in the future and quite possibly what can we do as a community to try and salavge what good reputation this project has and try to make it a model for all the others out there that follow our example.

Just my personal opinion. Hopefully shared by enough others to make a difference.

Arion

+1 for Arion's constructive approach.

I am truely amazed that things have gotten so darn messed up over here. It not like Matt and the guys have all the money in the world or time to watch every thing that goes on here. Back when I started in 1999 we had very few of the luxuries we have now. Mostly a few boards to post in, and they seemed to crash more than they stayed up. Knowing that none of us alive might have a chance to actually get that signal, with the advent of Boinc the administration opened up a considerable amount of forums for us so that we, as a community could come together and work with each other to solve problems and/or just get to know each other. The popularity is such that on their shoestring budget they allowed some of the people here to take an active role in helping moderate the boards.

Once again human nature has shown us that while there are many good folks out there that would do anything to help, there are also those that seem to think they are priviledged and abuse the trust that was placed in them. Not only did they abuse that trust that was given to them they "MAY" have committed a grievious crime in the process. This whole escapade has the pontiential to not only ruin the ruputation of the administtration, but the validity of anything done here.

People are upset because friends are now banned, others are upset because they were abused on the boards, still others have had their personal information released in the wild. Maybe everyone really does have a beef with this whole mess, but I think everyone needs to stand back, take a breather and look at the whole picture. This has the potential to destroy all the hard work done by so many people, least of all the project admins and scientists. It could quite easily come to a point where the project, the university don't need this type of negative view of the whole situation and decide to close things down and make it a very private enterprise (research project) with no imput for any of the general public. In which case we all LOSE....... At the very least of which they could shut down all the forums to try to not have this sort of thing happen again.

With as much as everyone has pushed over the years for project scientists and admins to be an active part in this endevor we will lose that unique perspective of what is actually going on in the project.

This could very well be just one more example of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bushell for the rest of us. Rather than fighting amoungst ourselves and trying to crusify those that are responsible, we need to see what was done, how it can be avoided in the future and quite possibly what can we do as a community to try and salavge what good reputation this project has and try to make it a model for all the others out there that follow our example.

Just my personal opinion. Hopefully shared by enough others to make a difference.

Arion

Please read what Arion has written.

I have also been with SETI since 1999, but I have second thoughts as to whether to continue when I see this sort of thing ripping the community apart.

Bernie

---

... I want to see the proof that all this has taken place. ...

Thanks to Michael Roberts I have seen that it appears that the name and password was indeed posted. Although, I have the files that Crunch3r posted on his forum and have been going through the threads of the defunct forum. I still cannot find the post that Michael posted here. Until I find it, I'll not be satisfied.

Unlike a forum being read from the web, you have access to the underlying files (html etc) too. These contain all the relevant information in plain text with added metadata. On unix you can as I did use grep to search for relevant keywords or context. On Windows you can use the system search tool similarly. On other systems there will be similar search functionality. I used the browser to decide what to search for and then to read the files found by the search.

Posts can be fabricated.

That is true and the mentioned archives could have been edited by someone. I imagine though that the forums or parts of them were downloaded more than once and any tampering would be brought to light. The quoted modlist items agree with the complete record I have kept in my gmail account for the time when I was a moderator.

If there were any discrepancies, it is overwhelmingly probable that the details would be enthusiastically published by someone or other, either here or elsewhere with links appearing here.

Now, answer me this: Is there *any* evidence that any of the "30" abused the information that was posted to that forum or read from the e-mail account?

Try reading my original post 791641 again. Access to the copied data was provided on Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:28 pm. The user I have renamed "Guess Who?" quoted one of my modlist posts on Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:04 pm. He was reading the stolen data within one and a half hours or so of the announcement and reposted my remark verbatim seven minutes after I had emailed it to Berkeley - I have just checked.

I chose a relatively innocuous example to quote. You can also find examples of them abusing the information they obtained, but I won't quote them here.

If "Guess who" is Tattletale, ...

I think it is adequately obvious from my previous posts that "Guess Who?" is a person distinct from "Tattle Tale". Also that I am not prepared to mention individuals.

Have you found examples of other people abusing the information?

Yes, also obvious from what I have already said. You are also quite capable of finding the details for yourself.

Please remember the request from "SETI Forums" in the first post in this thread:

Please do not discuss the specific “guilt” or “innocence” of any particular people publicly.

I will not respond to any questions which appear to seek details which we have already been asked not to post.

If "Guess who" is Tattletale, ...

I think it is adequately obvious from my previous posts that "Guess Who?" is a person distinct from "Tattle Tale". Also that I am not prepared to mention individuals.

Have you found examples of other people abusing the information?

Yes, also obvious from what I have already said. You are also quite capable of finding the details for yourself.

Please remember the request from "SETI Forums" in the first post in this thread:

Please do not discuss the specific “guilt” or “innocence” of any particular people publicly.

I will not respond to any questions which appear to seek details which we have already been asked not to post.

I do apologise for it not being adequately obvious to me that is why I was asking.

I am truely amazed that things have gotten so darn messed up over here. It not like Matt and the guys have all the money in the world or time to watch every thing that goes on here. Back when I started in 1999 we had very few of the luxuries we have now. Mostly a few boards to post in, and they seemed to crash more than they stayed up. Knowing that none of us alive might have a chance to actually get that signal, with the advent of Boinc the administration opened up a considerable amount of forums for us so that we, as a community could come together and work with each other to solve problems and/or just get to know each other. The popularity is such that on their shoestring budget they allowed some of the people here to take an active role in helping moderate the boards.

Once again human nature has shown us that while there are many good folks out there that would do anything to help, there are also those that seem to think they are priviledged and abuse the trust that was placed in them. Not only did they abuse that trust that was given to them they "MAY" have committed a grievious crime in the process. This whole escapade has the pontiential to not only ruin the ruputation of the administtration, but the validity of anything done here.

People are upset because friends are now banned, others are upset because they were abused on the boards, still others have had their personal information released in the wild. Maybe everyone really does have a beef with this whole mess, but I think everyone needs to stand back, take a breather and look at the whole picture. This has the potential to destroy all the hard work done by so many people, least of all the project admins and scientists. It could quite easily come to a point where the project, the university don't need this type of negative view of the whole situation and decide to close things down and make it a very private enterprise (research project) with no imput for any of the general public. In which case we all LOSE....... At the very least of which they could shut down all the forums to try to not have this sort of thing happen again.

With as much as everyone has pushed over the years for project scientists and admins to be an active part in this endevor we will lose that unique perspective of what is actually going on in the project.

This could very well be just one more example of a few bad apples spoiling the whole bushell for the rest of us. Rather than fighting amoungst ourselves and trying to crusify those that are responsible, we need to see what was done, how it can be avoided in the future and quite possibly what can we do as a community to try and salavge what good reputation this project has and try to make it a model for all the others out there that follow our example.

Just my personal opinion. Hopefully shared by enough others to make a difference.

Arion

Please read what Arion has written.

I have also been with SETI since 1999, but I have second thoughts as to whether to continue when I see this sort of thing ripping the community apart.

Bernie

There are over 854,000 crunchers here at SAH. This involves only 30 people at most. I hardly see this as ripping the community apart.

... I want to see the proof that all this has taken place. ...

Thanks to Michael Roberts I have seen that it appears that the name and password was indeed posted. Although, I have the files that Crunch3r posted on his forum and have been going through the threads of the defunct forum. I still cannot find the post that Michael posted here. Until I find it, I'll not be satisfied.

Unlike a forum being read from the web, you have access to the underlying files (html etc) too. These contain all the relevant information in plain text with added metadata. On unix you can as I did use grep to search for relevant keywords or context. On Windows you can use the system search tool similarly. On other systems there will be similar search functionality. I used the browser to decide what to search for and then to read the files found by the search.

Posts can be fabricated.

That is true and the mentioned archives could have been edited by someone. I imagine though that the forums or parts of them were downloaded more than once and any tampering would be brought to light. The quoted modlist items agree with the complete record I have kept in my gmail account for the time when I was a moderator.

If there were any discrepancies, it is overwhelmingly probable that the details would be enthusiastically published by someone or other, either here or elsewhere with links appearing here.

Now, answer me this: Is there *any* evidence that any of the "30" abused the information that was posted to that forum or read from the e-mail account?

Try reading my original post 791641 again. Access to the copied data was provided on Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:28 pm. The user I have renamed "Guess Who?" quoted one of my modlist posts on Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:04 pm. He was reading the stolen data within one and a half hours or so of the announcement and reposted my remark verbatim seven minutes after I had emailed it to Berkeley - I have just checked.

I chose a relatively innocuous example to quote. You can also find examples of them abusing the information they obtained, but I won't quote them here.

Greetings Michael,

Thank you. I went back into the forum, on my PC, after my last post last night and did indeed find the posts you quoted here. My apologies for the "fabricated" statement, but I'm one that requires proof positive. I am reading that forum on a Windows PC as it would have appeared on the Internet.

My definition of "abusing the information" is wrongful use of it. Posting it to a private forum is hardly a capitol offense. Reading it on that same private forum is hardly a capitol offense. And frankly, there is nothing Earth shattering about the modlist information. It's not like it would bring down the governments of the world and transform the world into chaos. Is there evidence that they (the banned) took any of the individual's private information, e-mail addresses et al, and pass that on to others? Is there evidence that any of the modlist information was posted publicly for all to see? Is there evidence that anyone on the modlist was ever abused or harassed in anyway? Ahh, that last brings to mind another episode from quite a while back involving a now ex-moderator.

Anyway, Michael, this is what I'm trying to get at. As an example of how trivial this has become: Maybe now I too should be banned because I now have read some of what was in that modlist. Maybe you should be banned too because you posted private messages from a private forum to a public one. Do you see my point? Do all of you see my point? Can you see the irony here?

To Admin:
The deed has been done and is in the past. Nothing can be done about what has happened. All you can do is work at trying to prevent it from happening again. The perpetrator of that deed is no longer with us, (RIP DB my friend). Oops! He was my friend too. Should my account also be canceled because I was his friend? I think not!

If I knew a known car thief and that car thief steals a car and dies crashing it during his get away, should I go to prison because I simply knew him? He cannot be punished, but someone *HAS* to be punished so it will be me, because I knew him. Does that scenario sound at all right to you? No! It is not.

If you want to set an example, fine. Set an example. But executing people's accounts because they are "guilty by association" is hardly a proper example to make. If anything, a 2 week ban from the forum would suffice. Unless, of course, there is evidence, proof positive, that any of the modlist information was abused. As I stated: posting it to a private forum is hardly a capitol offense let alone reading it. Gaining it illicitly is squarely on one person.

Fighting for my friends, because I can.

.o0(read 4 times and seems fit to post)

SIGNED: a concerned SETI citizen

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

I sincerely hope that the actions of a few selfish posters do not compromise the Seti project or its integrity.

I wish to be here to celebrate, IF and WHEN that all important signal comes through.

In the meantime I am certain the project leaders did what they thought was best.

I have lost one or two friends also and I think it is very sad. I shall miss their presence on these boards. But I hope that they learn from their actions and do not make the same silly mistake again, whatever forum/s they decide to join in the future.

---

'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
Eleanor Roosevelt.

My definition of "abusing the information" is wrongful use of it.

A good enough definition. You will find among others an example of moderator vote details being used to orchestrate the sending of manipulative and insincere PM messages.

Posting it to a private forum is hardly a capitol offense.

In terms of the responsibilities and duties of a moderator it is exactly that (not of course, despite any appearances to the contrary, literally)

Had it been done by hacking into the university computers it would have been a serious crime in its own right.

Reading it on that same private forum is hardly a capitol offense.

Perhaps not, but it is (as I have already pointed out) for a member of Seti@home to fail to alert our administration to the problem once aware of it.

And frankly, there is nothing Earth shattering about the modlist information.

Please ask some of your friends who were explaining how hurt and violated they felt when that forum was first published. Try telling them that was no big deal. Also bear in mind that you see only what they chose to quote in their forum. They were reading lots and lots of other posts too.

.o0(read 4 times and seems fit to post)

Ha! I do that too.