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Is to follow the laws always right?
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AC Send message Joined: 22 Jan 05 Posts: 3413 Credit: 119,579 RAC: 0 |
What this country (UK) needs is someone with a decent amount of common sense to go through a list of all laws (could take a while) and cross out the ones which are too petty to be reasonable. Obviously, many laws are correct and prevent social problems, eg obvious ones like not murdering people. To the average person, you know, you, me, that would make sense. Unfortunately common sense doesn't always a factor in when it comes to making laws. Politicians that make the laws are often driven by the need to satisfy different interest groups. |
The Simonator Send message Joined: 18 Nov 04 Posts: 5700 Credit: 3,855,702 RAC: 50 |
A politician will say anything to stay in power for another minute. Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge. |
AC Send message Joined: 22 Jan 05 Posts: 3413 Credit: 119,579 RAC: 0 |
Of course, you should not follow laws that are "wrong" (immoral/unethical?). The problem is, where should the line be drawn? How about laws that are supposed to be moral and ethical? In the 1930's there was a law that banned alcohol. See how the issue can get complex? |
Mac Girl. Send message Joined: 15 Mar 06 Posts: 679 Credit: 15,042 RAC: 0 |
It is funny how sex can have such a powerful hold over our lawmakers. The kid who got ten years for consensual sex, it would be interesting to know what State he lives in. I have heard that some American States are very conservative about sexual relations. I hope he can appeal successfully against his sentence. I take it that the girl he had sex with was not underage? Even if she consented it could still be an offence if she is too young. |
AC Send message Joined: 22 Jan 05 Posts: 3413 Credit: 119,579 RAC: 0 |
.....it would be interesting to know what State he lives in. I have heard that some American States are very conservative about sexual relations. Georgia. Yup |
Knightmare Send message Joined: 16 Aug 04 Posts: 7472 Credit: 94,252 RAC: 0 |
It is funny how sex can have such a powerful hold over our lawmakers. The kid who got ten years for consensual sex, it would be interesting to know what State he lives in. I have heard that some American States are very conservative about sexual relations. At the time the crime occurred...he was 17 and she was ( I believe ) 15. Air Cold, the blade stops; from silent stone, Death is preordained Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
It is funny how sex can have such a powerful hold over our lawmakers. The kid who got ten years for consensual sex, it would be interesting to know what State he lives in. I have heard that some American States are very conservative about sexual relations. The girl was 15, he was 17 at the time of the crime. At the time of the crime, and of the conviction, the crime was listed as a felony with a mandatory 10-year jail term. There was video of the incident, making his conviction pretty much a slam dunk. He had little grounds for appeal. He has already served 2 years of the 10 year sentence. Partly motivated by his case, that state legislature has changed the law. Now, in that state, what that kid did is a misdemeanor, punishable by 1 year in jail. However, the law as written could not be retroactively applied to his conviction. The legal process is underway to get him out with time-served, but the effort has got a while to go as it winds its way through our convoluted legal system. Regardless, I don't think the state would owe him anything more than release on time served. Having sexual relations with an underage person (and 15 is underage in most every jurisdiction in this nation) is not only a crime, but is morally wrong. An underage person is not able, under the law, to give consent to sexual activity. The video of the act leaves no doubt that this guy did the deed, and was justly convicted under the laws of his state at the time. The only item under debate is over which penalty, 10 years in prison or 1 year in jail, is the most appropriate given the facts of the case. However, you are correct in saying that sometimes, our laws regarding sex are somewhat bizarre at times. For instance, in Texas not so very long ago, the only legal sexual activity was between a man and a woman, married, to each other, in the missionary position. Times may have changed, and our society gotten more permissive, but the topic of sex, from time to time, still evokes the Puritanical imperative that rears it head in our culture. I feel that in many areas, our society is WAY too prudish. However, the subject of underage kids having sex is not one of those areas. |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
To take up an idea from the "Illegal Immigration - right or wrong" thread: Returning to the topic of the original poster in this thread, I feel that whenever possible it is best to follow the law. If one feels that the law is bad, continue to follow it but work towards getting the law changed. Only in cases where following the law is extremely offensive to your morals and ethics should one consider civil disobedience. In these cases, however, one must strive to be totally non-violent, especially to the authorities when they come to arrest you. Remember, in this case you are protesting the bad law, and most of your protest action is not in violating it, but in being convicted and punished for doing so. Remember, the two masters of civil disobedience in modern times, Ghandi and the Rev. Dr. King, spent a lot of time in jail because of it. Be prepared to do the same if you wish to follow in their footsteps. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Most laws, I do not even question whether I should follow them. Some of them, they make sense to me and so I try not to break them. Either way, I do not want to end up in jail. Furthermore, even if something is legal, that does not mean I do it. So much for someone's anarchy comment in another thread, lol. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. |
The Simonator Send message Joined: 18 Nov 04 Posts: 5700 Credit: 3,855,702 RAC: 50 |
Having sexual relations with an underage person (and 15 is underage in most every jurisdiction in this nation) is not only a crime, but is morally wrong. Never used to bother ancient civilisations, Romans Greeks etc, or indeed many middle eastern countries today, where girls as young as 12 or 13 are married off as soon as possible. Its only 'wrong' because the law says it is. Personally, i lost my virginity at 13, haven't regretted it yet :) Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge. |
Allie in Vancouver Send message Joined: 16 Mar 07 Posts: 3949 Credit: 1,604,668 RAC: 0 |
I am generally against the death penalty, but there are times when I almost change my mind. I know this is off topic, but I didn't want to start a new one for one post. Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas. Albert Einstein |
cRunchy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3555 Credit: 1,920,030 RAC: 3 |
Sorry for my very late reply. Yes my figures for the US seem to have been wrong. I think I got confused with the Pakistan population figures :o)~ Mai maafi chaati hui <=Sorry> As you say the CIA put the USA's population at: 0,301,139,947 The CIA also puts the 'worlds population at: 6,602,224,175 That means that the USA makes up about 1/20th of the worlds population. About 1 in every 20 people on this world resides in the USA. I am genuinely surprised by those figures. But if everything we hear is true about the USA then I am happy that such a significant proportion of people on this planet enjoy freedom, security and hope for the future.. I hope everyone can enjoy at the very least hope. |
Lester Send message Joined: 6 Jun 07 Posts: 414 Credit: 38,111 RAC: 0 |
But what if the law is really, REALLY annoying ? |
Beethoven Send message Joined: 19 Jun 06 Posts: 15274 Credit: 8,546 RAC: 0 |
Doesn't it depend in part on who you are, what you do, and what your position in society is? To give one exaggerated example for clarity's sake: To follow the laws all the time would be ridiculous if you were a professional criminal. However, if you were a Judge, it's the minimum that's expected of you. |
Darth Dogbytes™ Send message Joined: 30 Jul 03 Posts: 7512 Credit: 2,021,148 RAC: 0 |
Doesn't it depend in part on who you are, what you do, and what your position in society is? ...or a criminal on parole. Account frozen... |
Beethoven Send message Joined: 19 Jun 06 Posts: 15274 Credit: 8,546 RAC: 0 |
Doesn't it depend in part on who you are, what you do, and what your position in society is? Even if you starve? Nope, people don't behave that way. The criminal on parole measures the level of enforcement, the extent of supervision, the risk of being caught, against meeting his needs and wants. |
Darth Dogbytes™ Send message Joined: 30 Jul 03 Posts: 7512 Credit: 2,021,148 RAC: 0 |
True, but if he doesn't want any chance of going back he has to be like the judge. Account frozen... |
Beethoven Send message Joined: 19 Jun 06 Posts: 15274 Credit: 8,546 RAC: 0 |
True, but if he doesn't want any chance of going back he has to be like the judge. Agreed! Which furthers my point: it depends in part on the position you're in. ;) |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
Gandhi refused to follow certain laws, and he did that to bring attention to their immorality, but critical to his action was his willingness to take the consequences. Most people don't apply that aspect of "civil disobedience".Kind of like "passive resistances" and bans. ;) LOL Yes, I really have obtained rehabilitation since then, haven't I? About the topic in this thread, laws are created to make society endurable for most of the citizens, living in a banditry where the strongest mob is ruling is not very pleasant, unless, of course, you belong to the strongest mob. Just look at the situation in Campania with the Camorra, which together with the more known Mafia from Sicely and the 'Ndrangheta from Calabria, which all are said to come from the Spanish Garduna, where the population really is suffering from their activities. Laws are created to prevent anarchy in society, to give equal rights to all, strong or weak. They are also created to regulate behaviour and conduct in larger groups of people, so they are created when the needs are created. E.g. a lot of laws now a days were not necessary before, just look at the laws about computer technology, they were not necessary before computers became common among people to use. Some laws are necessary to secure people's rights and to protect them in society. E.g. the traffic laws are necessary to regulate people's behavior on the streets. But sometimes, when you are in situations, where obeying a law seems non important, it's tempting to break it. Speed regulations on good highways with very little traffic and with an experienced driver behind the wheel are very often broken. Myself, when I am, while riding my bike or or walking home late at night after a night out, coming to a traffic light showing red, and there's no other cars in sight, I don't wait for the light to change to green. My general opinion about laws and rules, use your common sense and if you don't hurt or harm others by breaking them, then I don't care. Harming or hurting other people by breaking the laws and rules should be punished after the criminal laws in society. Cheating with taxes harms other people, walking over for red light late at night with nobody else present or even in sight doesn't. "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
But what if the law is really, REALLY annoying ? From THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY: SATAN, One of the Creator's lamentable mistakes, repented in sashcloth and axes. Being instated as an archangel, Satan made himself multifariously objectionable and was finally expelled from Heaven. Halfway in his descent he paused, bent his head in thought a moment and at last went back. "There is one favor that I should like to ask," said he. "Name it." "Man, I understand, is about to be created. He will need laws." "What, wretch! you his appointed adversary, charged from the dawn of eternity with hatred of his soul -- you ask for the right to make his laws?" "Pardon; what I have to ask is that he be permitted to make them himself." It was so ordered. Now we know who's to blame... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
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