Normal Operations (May 30 2007)

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Profile Matt Lebofsky
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Message 578642 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 19:53:09 UTC

People have noted that the "merge hosts" website functionality is broken. I confirmed this and informed David who, as I am typing, is looking into it.

Seems like we finally got beyond our backlog and are back to "normal" operations. Oy. We temporarily employed the use of another server called lando - a rather new dual-proc system with 4GB of memory. We had lando act as a secondary download server to relieve the pressure off penguin (which was suffering all kinds of NFS problems due to the excessive load). Honestly, the real bottleneck was our SnapAppliance (a file server which holds a terabyte's worth of workunits) - it maxes out sending data across the network at 60 Mbps. However, the this is more than adequate, even during disaster recovery. Adding lando to the mix didn't allow us to get data out any faster, but relieved the pressure on poor ol' penguin. This morning I took lando out of the mix - we don't want to use it as a long-term production server as it has an experimental motherboard/BIOS which fails to reboot without a complete power cycle (making remote management impossible).

Some more detail about what "mystified" us this past weekend regarding the slow feeder query: The original problem (months ago) was that the basic form of the query wasn't using the expected indexes. No insult to MySQL, but it doesn't seem to be as "smart" as, say, Informix, which optimizes queries without having to try every obvious permutation (and several not-so-obvious). Anyway, we found the best query format back then, which recently failed again when we split the schedulers over two machines. Why? Because we added a mod clause to the query at the end (i.e. where id % 2 = 1) and that completely broke the optimization. So we had to play with various permutations again and found a new one that works for now. Aggravating this situation were the "rough periods" where feeder queries would drag on for N hours and nothing would help (restarting the project, compressing the database, even rebooting the system) but then suddenly the queries would start running lickety-split without any explanation. So by "mystified" I didn't mean "we didn't understand" as much as "we were confounded by irrational behavior." I should also clarify that I still think MySQL is a wonderful thing, but we're obviously pushing it pretty hard and sometimes it pushes back.

- Matt

-- BOINC/SETI@home network/web/science/development person
-- "Any idiot can have a good idea. What is hard is to do it." - Jeanne-Claude
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Message 578652 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 20:04:07 UTC - in response to Message 578642.  


Seems like we finally got beyond our backlog and are back to "normal" operations. - Matt

Good Job We always trusted that We were in good hands....

Sorry about my bad english.
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Message 578654 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 20:11:29 UTC - in response to Message 578642.  

Seems like we finally got beyond our backlog and are back to "normal" operations.
Oy.


I'll second that, on behalf of the patient, if somewhat frustrated of late, hordes. Well done on overcoming- FOR NOW (lol)- the headaches. Keep up the stering work- 2 all@ssl/s@h/boinc

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Message 578661 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 20:20:00 UTC - in response to Message 578642.  

[...]
Seems like we finally got beyond our backlog and are back to "normal" operations. Oy.

Three cheers for the team :o)

So by "mystified" I didn't mean "we didn't understand" as much as "we were confounded by irrational behavior." I should also clarify that I still think MySQL is a wonderful thing, but we're obviously pushing it pretty hard and sometimes it pushes back.

- Matt

That's the way I read "mystified" in your previous post. It's when computers get irrational that things get really tough to track down...

...so when the going gets tough, the tough get going ;o)

Regards,
Simon.
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Message 578680 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 20:57:33 UTC
Last modified: 30 May 2007, 21:00:00 UTC



------------------------------------------------------------------
5/30/2007 8:28:06 PM|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Started upload of file 27ja05aa.8710.9937.379824.3.168_0_0
5/30/2007 8:28:08 PM|SETI@home|Error on file upload: EOF on socket read : asked for 10176, got 0
5/30/2007 8:28:08 PM|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Temporarily failed upload of 27ja05aa.8710.9937.379824.3.168_0_0: transient upload error

5/30/2007 8:28:08 PM|SETI@home|Backing off 2 hr 14 min 32 sec on upload of file 27ja05aa.8710.9937.379824.3.168_0_0
.
.
.
5/30/2007 10:33:11 PM|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Started upload of file 27ja05aa.8710.9937.379824.3.168_0_0
5/30/2007 10:33:13 PM|SETI@home|Error on file upload: no command
5/30/2007 10:33:13 PM|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Permanently failed upload of 27ja05aa.8710.9937.379824.3.168_0_0
5/30/2007 10:33:13 PM|SETI@home|Giving up on upload of 27ja05aa.8710.9937.379824.3.168_0_0: server rejected file

5/30/2007 10:33:15 PM|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks
5/30/2007 10:33:15 PM|SETI@home|Reporting 1 tasks
5/30/2007 10:33:26 PM|SETI@home|Scheduler RPC succeeded [server version 509]
------------------------------------------------------------------
I got this messages.
At first BOINC wanted to upload.
Got the error messages.
Later BOINC couldn't upload again, and the server rejected the file and I got a 'validate error'.





------------------------------------------------------------------
5/30/2007 10:33:30 PM|SETI@home|Computation for task 19mr05aa.17027.18754.129826.3.167_0 finished
5/30/2007 10:33:30 PM||Starting 09ja05aa.15724.3170.286056.3.223_2
5/30/2007 10:33:30 PM|SETI@home|Starting task 09ja05aa.15724.3170.286056.3.223_2 using setiathome_enhanced version 515
5/30/2007 10:33:32 PM|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Started upload of file 19mr05aa.17027.18754.129826.3.167_0_0
5/30/2007 10:33:35 PM|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Finished upload of file 19mr05aa.17027.18754.129826.3.167_0_0
5/30/2007 10:33:35 PM|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Throughput 8190 bytes/sec
5/30/2007 10:33:42 PM|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks
5/30/2007 10:33:42 PM|SETI@home|Reporting 1 tasks
5/30/2007 10:33:52 PM|SETI@home|Scheduler request failed: HTTP error 0
5/30/2007 10:33:52 PM|SETI@home|Deferring communication 1 min 0 sec, because scheduler request failed
5/30/2007 10:34:52 PM|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks
5/30/2007 10:34:52 PM|SETI@home|Reporting 1 tasks
5/30/2007 10:35:02 PM|SETI@home|Scheduler RPC succeeded [server version 509]
5/30/2007 10:35:02 PM|SETI@home|Message from server: Incomplete request received.
5/30/2007 10:35:02 PM|SETI@home|New host venue:
5/30/2007 10:35:02 PM||General prefs: from SETI@home (last modified 2007-05-29 17:26:24)
5/30/2007 10:35:02 PM||Host location: none
5/30/2007 10:35:02 PM||General prefs: using your defaults

5/30/2007 10:35:02 PM|SETI@home|Deferring communication 11 sec, because requested by project
5/30/2007 10:35:18 PM|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks
5/30/2007 10:35:18 PM|SETI@home|Reporting 1 tasks
5/30/2007 10:35:28 PM|SETI@home|Scheduler request failed: HTTP error 0
5/30/2007 10:35:28 PM|SETI@home|Deferring communication 1 min 0 sec, because scheduler request failed
5/30/2007 10:36:28 PM|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks
5/30/2007 10:36:28 PM|SETI@home|Reporting 1 tasks
5/30/2007 10:36:38 PM|SETI@home|Scheduler request failed: HTTP error 0
5/30/2007 10:36:38 PM|SETI@home|Deferring communication 1 min 0 sec, because scheduler request failed
5/30/2007 10:37:39 PM|SETI@home|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks
5/30/2007 10:37:39 PM|SETI@home|Reporting 1 tasks
5/30/2007 10:37:49 PM|SETI@home|Scheduler RPC succeeded [server version 509]
5/30/2007 10:37:49 PM|SETI@home|New host venue: home
5/30/2007 10:37:49 PM||General prefs: from SETI@home (last modified 2007-05-29 17:26:24)
5/30/2007 10:37:49 PM||Host location: home
5/30/2007 10:37:49 PM||General prefs: using separate prefs for home

5/30/2007 10:37:49 PM|SETI@home|Deferring communication 11 sec, because requested by project
------------------------------------------------------------------
After update the PC he was a new host.
After a few updates again the old one.




O.K., this can happen! ;-)
But maybe this is a sign for a bigger problem what will come in future?!


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Message 578686 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 21:03:53 UTC
Last modified: 30 May 2007, 21:04:03 UTC

It's great to see things flowing normally again. Thanks so much for the hard work.

Now take a (short) vacation and get back to work on AstroPulse and MultiBeam.
;>))

Thanks again!
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Message 578694 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 21:20:21 UTC

here in Germany all goes well :)

thanks to the People for the hard work...........

going to the 8 years Club :)

Greetings from Germany NRW
Ulli






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Message 578707 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 21:31:19 UTC

From a recently returning participant, sincerely thanks for all your hard work.

Also thanks for taking the time to offer detailed explanatons about what has been happening behind the scenes. This goes a long way to help people understand some of the issues faced by your team.

As someone who also works "behind the scenes" in IT, I can certainly relate to your recent difficulties.

I'm really glad it's all running OK again. Also I'm glad now that I held out, and stuck with s@h as my current sole BIONC project. I didn't want to diminish my small contributions even further, this time around.

Regards and best wishes.

----------------------

I need perfection
Some twisted selection
That tangles me
To keep me alive
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Message 578751 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 22:14:55 UTC

People have noted that the "merge hosts" website functionality is broken.


The Client Connection Statistics seems to be broken too... not that important - but I like statistics.

Anyway, thanks for the hard work you put into the project!!!!


mic.
mic.


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Message 578776 - Posted: 30 May 2007, 23:03:24 UTC

Thanks for the hard work. Seems like everything is working normally for me again.
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Message 578828 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 0:06:16 UTC - in response to Message 578642.  

They are not Indexes they are INDICES, why can't people remember this lol






People have noted that the "merge hosts" website functionality is broken. I confirmed this and informed David who, as I am typing, is looking into it.

Seems like we finally got beyond our backlog and are back to "normal" operations. Oy. We temporarily employed the use of another server called lando - a rather new dual-proc system with 4GB of memory. We had lando act as a secondary download server to relieve the pressure off penguin (which was suffering all kinds of NFS problems due to the excessive load). Honestly, the real bottleneck was our SnapAppliance (a file server which holds a terabyte's worth of workunits) - it maxes out sending data across the network at 60 Mbps. However, the this is more than adequate, even during disaster recovery. Adding lando to the mix didn't allow us to get data out any faster, but relieved the pressure on poor ol' penguin. This morning I took lando out of the mix - we don't want to use it as a long-term production server as it has an experimental motherboard/BIOS which fails to reboot without a complete power cycle (making remote management impossible).

Some more detail about what "mystified" us this past weekend regarding the slow feeder query: The original problem (months ago) was that the basic form of the query wasn't using the expected indexes. No insult to MySQL, but it doesn't seem to be as "smart" as, say, Informix, which optimizes queries without having to try every obvious permutation (and several not-so-obvious). Anyway, we found the best query format back then, which recently failed again when we split the schedulers over two machines. Why? Because we added a mod clause to the query at the end (i.e. where id % 2 = 1) and that completely broke the optimization. So we had to play with various permutations again and found a new one that works for now. Aggravating this situation were the "rough periods" where feeder queries would drag on for N hours and nothing would help (restarting the project, compressing the database, even rebooting the system) but then suddenly the queries would start running lickety-split without any explanation. So by "mystified" I didn't mean "we didn't understand" as much as "we were confounded by irrational behavior." I should also clarify that I still think MySQL is a wonderful thing, but we're obviously pushing it pretty hard and sometimes it pushes back.

- Matt


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Message 578882 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 1:39:29 UTC - in response to Message 578828.  

They are not Indexes they are INDICES, why can't people remember this lol

Because they speak English, not Latin? ;)

I can be as pedantic as the next man, but outside the most formal or technical contexts, I can’t see any reason (euphony aside—“radii” sounds much better than “radiuses”, e.g.) for objecting to regular English plurals of words that have been thoroughly naturalized. And even though I have considerable affection for Latinate terminology, I’d much rather see someone use a ‘homely’ Anglo-Saxon form than try for a Latin suffix and botch it: such solecisms as “octopi” and “virii” raise my hackles whenever I see them, and incline me to think the perpetrator a pretentious twit.

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Message 578892 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 2:04:39 UTC

{quote}They are not Indexes they are INDICES, why can't people remember this lol{/quote}

From the Oxford English Dictionary (online) under indexes:

d. Computers. A set of items each of which specifies one of the records of a file and contains information about its address.

"Indices" is also acceptable (see the top of the entry).

Hmmm. {rhetorical}Did I miss the {irony}{/irony} tags?{/rhetorical}

Brendan

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and sometime obscurantist
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Message 578901 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 2:29:39 UTC - in response to Message 578882.  
Last modified: 31 May 2007, 2:31:17 UTC

They are not Indexes they are INDICES, why can't people remember this lol

Because they speak English, not Latin? ;)

I can be as pedantic as the next man, but outside the most formal or technical contexts, I can’t see any reason (euphony aside—“radii” sounds much better than “radiuses”, e.g.) for objecting to regular English plurals of words that have been thoroughly naturalized. And even though I have considerable affection for Latinate terminology, I’d much rather see someone use a ‘homely’ Anglo-Saxon form than try for a Latin suffix and botch it: such solecisms as “octopi” and “virii” raise my hackles whenever I see them, and incline me to think the perpetrator a pretentious twit.


To original poster quoted: "Indexes" and "Indicies" are both correct.

Actually, I kind of like the "i" plural endings - they remind me of my Italian (and, hence, Latin) roots... "Octopus" and "virus" (and "index"!) are Latin words, so the "i" ending is somewhat better, if you want people to remember the words' derivation. (although, by now, they are also correct as "-es") (the proper Latin plural of "virus" is actually "viri" - one "I". You only replace the "us" with an "i"...)

BTW, in Italian, the "i" ending is masculine, an "e" ending is feminine.

.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...
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Message 578942 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 4:00:47 UTC - in response to Message 578901.  
Last modified: 31 May 2007, 4:04:07 UTC

Actually, I kind of like the "i" plural endings - they remind me of my Italian (and, hence, Latin) roots... "Octopus" and "virus" (and "index"!) are Latin words, so the "i" ending is somewhat better, if you want people to remember the words' derivation. (although, by now, they are also correct as "-es") (the proper Latin plural of "virus" is actually "viri" - one "I". You only replace the "us" with an "i"...)

Wrong and wrong—“a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”. Not all Latin words ending in -us form their plurals in -i. For examples of some others that don’t, and are reasonably familar adoptees in English, try apparatus, coitus, corpus, genus, hiatus, impetus, prospectus, opus, and status for starters.

“Octopus” was originally Greek, and was borrowed into Latin before being passed on to us. The Greek plural was oktopodes (four syllables) and the Latin octopedes (ditto)—cf. “tripod” and “pedal” respectively. If you want to pay homage to our classical forebears, feel free to use one of those forms, but I think you’ll find most authorities recommend “octopuses”.

As for virus, we have the problem that there’s no surviving evidence of its plural usage in classical or mediæval Latin. Opinion appears to be divided on how it should be classified: some say it had no plural in use, period (how often do you say “poisonousnesses”?); others think it would have behaved like certain other neuter nouns in -us, indicating the form virora—cf. corpus, corpora—while others still put it in the fourth declension, where its plural would be simply virus (with a long U, to rhyme with “igloos”). At any rate, the only unexceptionable English plural is “viruses”.

Sorry to go on so long OT, but: a) I didn’t start it; b) Latin-abuse is one of my pet peeves; c) blame Misfit.
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Message 578979 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 5:49:46 UTC

Thank You very much, Matt, for the continued communication regarding what you are doing and trying to do to keep things clicking along.
A little information goes a looooong way to help relieve frustrations when things are not working right for the users.


And the kitties say.....'Keep up the good fight! Well done!'
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 579001 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 6:51:33 UTC

Has any one else noticed that the "User of the Day" hasn't changed since all of this began.
Adam Olson
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Message 579003 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 6:55:53 UTC - in response to Message 579001.  

Has any one else noticed that the "User of the Day" hasn't changed since all of this began.

Yeah, same over on SETI Beta, I think the part that changes this in the script is probably down. Since its not a "urgent" thing to fix, it will probably be on the back burner till they get the important stuff taken care of.
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Message 579050 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 8:08:11 UTC - in response to Message 578942.  

Actually, I kind of like the "i" plural endings - they remind me of my Italian (and, hence, Latin) roots... "Octopus" and "virus" (and "index"!) are Latin words, so the "i" ending is somewhat better, if you want people to remember the words' derivation. (although, by now, they are also correct as "-es") (the proper Latin plural of "virus" is actually "viri" - one "I". You only replace the "us" with an "i"...)

Wrong and wrong—“a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”. Not all Latin words ending in -us form their plurals in -i. For examples of some others that don’t, and are reasonably familar adoptees in English, try apparatus, coitus, corpus, genus, hiatus, impetus, prospectus, opus, and status for starters.

“Octopus” was originally Greek, and was borrowed into Latin before being passed on to us. The Greek plural was oktopodes (four syllables) and the Latin octopedes (ditto)—cf. “tripod” and “pedal” respectively. If you want to pay homage to our classical forebears, feel free to use one of those forms, but I think you’ll find most authorities recommend “octopuses”.

As for virus, we have the problem that there’s no surviving evidence of its plural usage in classical or mediæval Latin. Opinion appears to be divided on how it should be classified: some say it had no plural in use, period (how often do you say “poisonousnesses”?); others think it would have behaved like certain other neuter nouns in -us, indicating the form virora—cf. corpus, corpora—while others still put it in the fourth declension, where its plural would be simply virus (with a long U, to rhyme with “igloos”). At any rate, the only unexceptionable English plural is “viruses”.

Sorry to go on so long OT, but: a) I didn’t start it; b) Latin-abuse is one of my pet peeves; c) blame Misfit.


Hi, Odysseus. Like your comment re the misuse of language. I now live in France, where unfortunately this phenomenon is showing up, too. As regards English and Dutch, better no to mention it. The reason I am so interested is that, after some sixty years, I have decided to brush up on my Latin again (took 6 years of it in a gymnasium in the forties). I had forgotten what a beautiful language it is. Now, if you can help me with my SETI problem, I will be really, really happy: my finished wu has been waiting in Transfer for about a week. I keep getting the http server error.

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Message 579067 - Posted: 31 May 2007, 8:50:20 UTC - in response to Message 579003.  

Has any one else noticed that the "User of the Day" hasn't changed since all of this began.

Yeah, same over on SETI Beta, I think the part that changes this in the script is probably down. Since its not a "urgent" thing to fix, it will probably be on the back burner till they get the important stuff taken care of.

Has anyone else checked their results? I'm supposed to have 5 in progress I've only got 2, have I completed the other 3?
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