[quote]Hmmm....what else can I do. Oh get those energy efficient mini flourescent light bulbs, but they cost a fortune and don't work half as well as a normal incandescent bulb. They take a while to warm up and go yellow after a month or so. For me I'll stick with the good ol' standaed bulb since I'm buying renewable electricity.

Hmmm....what else can I do. Oh get those energy efficient mini flourescent light bulbs, but they cost a fortune and don't work half as well as a normal incandescent bulb. They take a while to warm up and go yellow after a month or so. For me I'll stick with the good ol' standaed bulb since I'm buying renewable electricity.

You might like to know that for over 2 years now the UK energy companies have been giving away (for the price of a stamp] 2 energy efficient light bulbs, to every household. 1 equiv to 60w, and one equiv to 100w ordinary bulbs. Plus you also get a questionaire to fill in on your energy usage, and they send you a free report on where you can save money.

The bulbs do take about a minute to fully warm up, but so what? I think the retail price is about

They last about 12 times longer than ordinary bulbs.

We all need to do our bit. It's a little like distributed computing, a lot of computers doing a little bit gets a lot done.

I am buying electricity sourced from renewable sources. This alone halves my greenhouse gas emissions. Now I need to work out how to, cost effectively mind you, reduce my emissions even further. I have a few choices;

1. Give money to an organisation that plants trees, but at this point in time I'm unsure about the overall honesty of the organistions so I am procrastinating. I need to see more oversight and auditing to convince me they are not taking my money and running.

2. Sell my big 6-cyl sedan and get a smaller vehicle. But man-o-man, I paid $6k for this car and I'll have to pay at least triple that for a 4-cyl car that is half decent.

3. Rid my bike to work more often.....OK OK OK....start riding my bike to work.

Hmmm....what else can I do. Oh get those energy efficient mini flourescent light bulbs, but they cost a fortune and don't work half as well as a normal incandescent bulb. They take a while to warm up and go yellow after a month or so. For me I'll stick with the good ol' standaed bulb since I'm buying renewable electricity.

So let me get this right. You've switched your electricity supplier. You've thought about paying for trees to be planted, but you haven't actually done it. You've thought about giving up your huge gas guzzling car for a smaller one, but you haven't actually done it. You've thought about riding a bike, but you haven't actually done it. You've thought about changing your light bulbs, but you haven't actually done it.

Seems to me you think a lot, but don't actually do anything. Apart from change your electricity supplier. Big deal. That'll save the planet for sure.

Well, it sounds like a bucket load more than you've done. Tell us iX, Ice, Sir Beekeeper...., what are doing about it? (yes pissing contest starts now ;) )

The down side is that they contain mercury which is released before/after disposal due to rough handling in the trash.
I use them extensively because of their long service life.

I heard that energy-saving bulbs have mercury inside them?
Yes, mercury is an essential ingredient for energy-saving lamps, but lamps contain only very very small quantities. It depends on the manufacturer, but in general, modern energy saving lights use even smaller amounts, and the European eco-label permits a maximum of 4 milligrams per bulb.

OSLO (Reuters) - Thirteen percent of Americans have never heard of global warming even though their country is the world's top source of greenhouse gases, a 46-country survey showed on Monday.

The report, by ACNielsen of more than 25,000 Internet users, showed that 57 percent of people around the world considered global warming a "very serious problem" and a further 34 percent rated it a "serious problem."

"It has taken extreme and life-threatening weather patterns to finally drive the message home that global warming is happening and is here to stay unless a concerted, global effort is made to reverse it," said Patrick Dodd, the President of ACNielsen Europe

People in Latin America were most worried while U.S. citizens were least concerned with just 42 percent rating global warming "very serious."

The United States emits about a quarter of all greenhouse gases, the biggest emitter ahead of China, Russia and India.

Thirteen percent of U.S. citizens said they had never heard or read anything about global warming, the survey said.

Almost all climate scientists say that temperatures are creeping higher because of heat-trapping greenhouse gases released by burning fossil fuels.

The study also found that 91 percent of people had heard about global warming and 50 percent reckoned it was caused by human activities.

A U.N. report due on Friday is set to say it is at least 90 percent probable that human activities are the main cause of warming in the past 50 years.

People in China and Brazil were most convinced of the link to human activities and Americans least convinced.

The survey said that people living in regions vulnerable to natural disasters seemed most concerned -- ranging from Latin Americans worried by damage to coffee or banana crops to people in the Czech Republic whose country was hit by 2002 floods.

In Latin America, 96 percent of respondents said they had heard of global warming and 75 percent rated it "very serious."

Most industrial nations have signed up for the U.N.'s Kyoto Protocol, which imposed caps on emissions of greenhouse gases, mainly from factories, power plants and vehicles.

President George W. Bush pulled the United States out of Kyoto in 2001, but said last week that climate change was a "serious challenge."

President George W. Bush pulled the United States out of Kyoto in 2001, but said last week that climate change was a "serious challenge."

President George W. Bush pulled the United States out of Kyoto in 2001, but said last week that climate change was a "serious challenge."

Do you disagree with the "serious challenge" statement? Or do you simply want his analysis of the proper way to address climate change to be identical with yours?

Another solution I ahve mentioned ( I think ) once before is to use LED light bulbs.

The cost is rather prohibitive right now, about $35 US, but they work very well, and last around 10 times longer than even the flourescent bulbs.

They are also very energy efficient. You can run one of them for just a couple of dollars a year.

Information on LED Light Bulbs available from the C. Crane Company

How are you going to crush China's economic expansion? I've already said they are going backwards and making the world's climate change problem worse as we speak. (And please don't ask what "I" am going to do - this micro decision making for individuals means squat if China continues) Their current plans call for the opening of a new power station every week, most of them coal-fired. Yes, I'll say it again. ONE NEW POWER STATION EVERY WEEK from here till eternity. For those that like graphs go and argue this one out with China;
How much CO2 do you think this lot will put into the atmosphere?

How are you going to crush China's economic expansion? I've already said they are going backwards and making the world's climate change problem worse as we speak. (And please don't ask what "I" am going to do - this micro decision making for individuals means squat if China continues) Their current plans call for the opening of a new power station every week, most of them coal-fired. Yes, I'll say it again. ONE NEW POWER STATION EVERY WEEK from here till eternity. For those that like graphs go and argue this one out with China;
How much CO2 do you think this lot will put into the atmosphere?

How is China, or any newly developing Industrial Country, going to afford anything BUT Coal or Oil fired power plants? They have no money coming in until they develop their Country. Farms do not pay enough taxes to pay for Nuclear power plants! Solar power plants, absolutely ridiculous! Wind power you say, not reliable enough to be the sole supplier. So what does a Country do to provide power so Companies can be formed and built to provide those taxes required to be fancy dancy power plants that then actually provide power and reduce the overall output of emissions?
Climate Change is a FACT! China is aware of that fact, the problem is they do not have enough money to pay for "one new power station a week" that is of the non-polluting type! 100 years from now, they absolutely could, IF they started banking the money required. The US, and the UK, could too IF they started banking the money required. Right now the money is required elsewhere, the Politicians have pork barrels to fill!

A "serious challenge" is a cop out politicians statement that could mean one of many things. For Bush it could mean that he didn't think he could persuade America to adhere to Kyoto requirements without being made even more unpopular and losing office because of it. (That is, not worried about saving the planet). Let's face it if 87% of Americans haven't even heard of Climate Change, they are hardly going to thank him for bringing in austere measures.

Stop. Clarify the statement in bold with the Reuter's article you quoted in your previous post to the one quoted here.

Another solution I ahve mentioned ( I think ) once before is to use LED light bulbs.

The cost is rather prohibitive right now, about $35 US, but they work very well, and last around 10 times longer than even the flourescent bulbs.

They are also very energy efficient. You can run one of them for just a couple of dollars a year.

Information on LED Light Bulbs available from the C. Crane Company

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

If not, we all go down the Climate Change plug together. And face the prospect of WW3 as we squabble over the dwindling energy reserves as coal, oil and gas all gets used up.

If not, we all go down the Climate Change plug together. And face the prospect of WW3 as we squabble over the dwindling energy reserves as coal, oil and gas all gets used up.

The squabble over oil will be fairly long in comming. Read the THE OIL RESERVE FALLACY on the Radford University web site for information that is not generally reported.

<snip>...identified, probable, potential, ultimately recoverable and unconventional.

If not, we all go down the Climate Change plug together. And face the prospect of WW3 as we squabble over the dwindling energy reserves as coal, oil and gas all gets used up.

The squabble over oil will be fairly long in comming. Read the THE OIL RESERVE FALLACY on the Radford University web site for information that is not generally reported.

From the link you posted....

<snip>...identified, probable, potential, ultimately recoverable and unconventional.

Wouldn't " potential " reserves be considered guessing. How can anyone " count " something they aren't sure isn't there??
" There is potentially 50 billion barrels of oil in that place so we have to count that too. "
That seems a tad bit ludicrous.
I have the potential to make 50K a year in wages. So does that mean I actually get to count that money, rather than what I know I have??
" Probable " could fall into the same category.

It is now official. Temperatures in the UK this January are the mildest ever recorded for January, except for in 1916. Tonight, the last day in January, no place in the UK will experience frost, which is very unusual for the end of January. Normally it is bitterly cold. No place in the UK will be below 5C in the UK tonight; in fact most places will be around 6C or 7C. Right now at 6:20pm in Surrey it is 9C (48F).