@ Margaret - Make another POST / COMMENT, and then immediately go back and Edit the same comment (change the Title from the ALL CAPS to fix the 'Problem' mentioned by Dogbytes . . . hope this helps ;)

The China Post, Thursday February 01 2007

The Environmental Protection Administration said yesterday the cold front that is expected to hit Taiwan today will bring more air pollutants to the country and advised people with cardiovascular or respiratory disease to avoid heading outdoors.

According to Chang Shun-chin, a section chief at the EPA's Department of Environmental Monitoring and Information Management, most of the pollutants that have flowed to Taiwan along with cold fronts recently are industrial waste produced by factories in China's coastal areas.

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flaming balloons

I don’t know what to say…I did not know so many people disagree with me. I cannot persuade you; but I have a request: why not take the name of Hong Kong and China as a whole? It has already belonged to China for nearly ten years!
To nobody, John, Pawly and all who care for me: thank you very much!
To Pawly: to tell you the truth, I have never seen it too.
To Doqbytes: there is something wrong with the picture and I cannot see it.

Hong Kong is rightfully a part of China...it was originally stolen from China by the British. They forced the Imperial Dowager Empress to cede to them as reparations for the Boxer Rebellion with a 99 year lease. BTW, everyone is welcome here, just because we may not agree, doesn't mean anything personally...my disagreement with your first post was just that.

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Account frozen...

I don’t know what to say…I did not know so many people disagree with me. I cannot persuade you

Naturally you cannot persuade me. My world-view was not formed through the prism of the Chinese dictatorships state-censored teachings and media. Your lack of knowledge is really not your fault.

I don’t know what to say…I did not know so many people disagree with me. I cannot persuade you; but I have a request: why not take the name of Hong Kong and China as a whole? It has already belonged to China for nearly ten years!
To nobody, John, Pawly and all who care for me: thank you very much!
To Pawly: to tell you the truth, I have never seen it too.
To Doqbytes: there is something wrong with the picture and I cannot see it.

Hi Margaret, welcome to the forums. I think you probably speak for many mainland Chinese who view Taiwan as a province of China and do not like that the Taiwanese maintain their sense of independence from the mainland Chinese. China, of course, is not the only country to have such internal difficulties. In Canada, we have "La Belle Provence", Quebec. They have their own lanuage and culture and many wish to be formally independent from the rest of Canada. Russia has difficulty with Chechnia, Spain has difficulty with the Basques. The United States fought a civil war to prevent its sourthen states from leaving to form their own country. The fact is: no country wants to see itself split up.

Separation need not be a hostile parting of ways, though. Consider the former Czechoslovakia, as an example. That happened very peacefully, and Slovakia, Moravia and the Czech Republic have very good relations. It is not an insult that people in a particular area with common backgrounds sometimes wish to conduct their own affairs.

I can only say that I hope these differences between China and Taiwan can be resolved peacefully over time...whatever the final result may be.

Good luck.

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Margaret-welcome!

1) I believe Hong Kong has been returned to the Chinese per the end of the 99-year lease.

2) I am one who believes Taiwan deserves to maintain their separate identity. Being in mainland China, you are indoctrinated to the beliefs and "training" imposed on you by the Communist government. I encourage you to study beyond the rules and learn about the mistreatment and poverty the government enforces on some such as the Tibetans.

If you're striving for a full education, be completely educated...embrace different views. You may find your views to be modifed in the process.

Best wishes.
Pete

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Can anyone give us a brief rundown on the history of Taiwan? If I remember rightly, there was a military coup and it was run by a number of generals a while ago.

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Margaret-welcome!

1) I believe Hong Kong has been returned to the Chinese per the end of the 99-year lease.

2) I am one who believes Taiwan deserves to maintain their separate identity. Being in mainland China, you are indoctrinated to the beliefs and "training" imposed on you by the Communist government. I encourage you to study beyond the rules and learn about the mistreatment and poverty the government enforces on some such as the Tibetans.

If you're striving for a full education, be completely educated...embrace different views. You may find your views to be modifed in the process.

Best wishes.
Pete

To be fair Pete, anyyone who's been raised in a public school system, anywhere in the world, has been subject to plenty of indoctrination. It's part of what all school systems do everywhere. Is it just a coincidence that you probably attended schools or university where a doctrine of liberalism prevailed?

It's the history, the claims, and the culture of the people in Taiwan that are at issue here, imho, not that those with different views were schooled elsewhere.

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Can anyone give us a brief rundown on the history of Taiwan? If I remember rightly, there was a military coup and it was run by a number of generals a while ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

Can anyone give us a brief rundown on the history of Taiwan? If I remember rightly, there was a military coup and it was run by a number of generals a while ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

Thanks for this, Robert. I knew there was a general involved in this, but I didn't realized it was Chiang Kai-shek, ousted from mainland China by Mao Tse Tung.

What this history tells me is that the Taiwanese have been an occupied people for a very long time, but have always wanted to be independent. It seems they also have their own culture and indiginous people. Also interesting is that the postwar handover from Japan to China was never fully formalized. I would think that mainland China's claim looks somewhat weaker to me, given that they never actually conquered Formosa. It certainly seems odd to me that they would claim "lineage" through Chiag Kai-shek, their enemy. And if not him and his KMT, what "Chinese" are we talking about here?

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To be fair Pete, anyyone who's been raised in a public school system, anywhere in the world, has been subject to plenty of indoctrination. It's part of what all school systems do everywhere. Is it just a coincidence that you probably attended schools or university where a doctrine of liberalism prevailed?
It's the history, the claims, and the culture of the people in Taiwan that are at issue here, imho, not that those with different views were schooled elsewhere.

Absolutely true, here in the US schools in the former Confederate Southern States talk about the US Civil War as if it was started by the North to free the slaves. In the Northern States it is taught as a war over trade practices. Two views of the same war taught even today. I guess if you are in the South and the thinking is you lost the war, it was a bad war. In the North, which won, the war is viewed as those Southerners being uppity! Won and lost are terms only, in a war no side wins and all sides lose! ESPECIALLY Civil Wars!

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Can anyone give us a brief rundown on the history of Taiwan? If I remember rightly, there was a military coup and it was run by a number of generals a while ago.

I could be wrong, Beethoven; however, I believe you are thinking about Thailand, not Taiwan.

;-D

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

@Beethoven- I am fortunate to have exposed myself to a mix. I attended a conservative public school system, and then 2 liberal colleges-one being a school based in a Quaker area of North Carolina (studied Psych). Then got my Social Work degree so I was exposed to many different points of view.

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@Beethoven- I am fortunate to have exposed myself to a mix. I attended a conservative public school system, and then 2 liberal colleges-one being a school based in a Quaker area of North Carolina (studied Psych). Then got my Social Work degree so I was exposed to many different points of view.

Heh, nothing personal, Blurf. I guess I just had the feeling that you were attributing Margaret's opinion on this issue solely on the fact that she was a communist from mainland China. My point was intended to be that people aren't just indoctrinated automatons because they're Communist. She might have thought it through and decided that she (independently) agreed with the position the Communist Party was taking. Just because she's communist doesn't mean she's incapable of thinking.

I certainly didn't mean to offend you. ;)


Cheers!

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Can anyone give us a brief rundown on the history of Taiwan? If I remember rightly, there was a military coup and it was run by a number of generals a while ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

Thanks for this, Robert. I knew there was a general involved in this, but I didn't realized it was Chiang Kai-shek, ousted from mainland China by Mao Tse Tung.

What this history tells me is that the Taiwanese have been an occupied people for a very long time, but have always wanted to be independent. It seems they also have their own culture and indiginous people. Also interesting is that the postwar handover from Japan to China was never fully formalized. I would think that mainland China's claim looks somewhat weaker to me, given that they never actually conquered Formosa. It certainly seems odd to me that they would claim "lineage" through Chiag Kai-shek, their enemy. And if not him and his KMT, what "Chinese" are we talking about here?

Hi Beethoven, I did a bit or reading on China myself the other day. It seems Margaret has got a few of us researching up on China and Taiwan.

The way I read it was the there was a civil war and the 'original' Chinese (those who governed China at the time) had to flee to the islands when the Communists took over. In fact the ROC (Republic of China based in Taiwan) still claim to be the 'real' China.

So Margaret's Communists are still continuing that struggle to take over from the original ROC.

I could be wrong, but I want to know what's with these Chinese and why this civil war is taking so long.

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flaming balloons

No offense taken....

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Hong Kong is rightfully a part of China...it was originally stolen from China by the British. They forced the Imperial Dowager Empress to cede to them as reparations for the Boxer Rebellion with a 99 year lease. BTW, everyone is welcome here, just because we may not agree, doesn't mean anything personally...my disagreement with your first post was just that.

What a load of utter tosh!
If you wanna pontificate, DB, please read up on your history - heed the old dictum " Sometimes it is better for one to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt".
Firstly, "Hong Kong" is and was an Island. The mainland part of the ex colony was/is called Kowloon.
The British, to redress their net outflow of payments to China for tea and to force China to conduct relations like other states, invaded China, winning the First Opium War in 1841. During the war, Victoria Island was first occupied by the British, and then formally ceded from the Qing Dynasty of China in 1842 under the Treaty of Nanking.
Hong Kong became a Crown Colony in 1843 with the first urban settlement in Victoria City (now called Admiralty). The Kowloon Peninsula south of Boundary Street and Stonecutter's Island was ceded to the British in perpetuity in 1860 under the Convention of Peking after China's defeat in the Second Opium War. Expansive adjacent lands to the north, known as the New Territories (including New Kowloon and Lantau Island), were then leased by Britain from China for 99 years, from 1 July 1898 to 30 June 1997. For the first 20 years there was little contact between the European and Chinese communities. The first specially-recruited Hong Kong civil servants to be taught Cantonese were recruited in 1862, markedly improving relations.
If your shotgun approach to history is indicative then a lack of erudition seems to be a prerequisite for the post of moderator here.

It is a fact, during (or after) the revolution in china, the people decided to build different countries.
We had the same here in germany. After the WWII, people decided to build the FRG and GDR. The FRG (Western Germany) never accepted the GDR as an separate country.

But if the people of taiwan do not want to be a part of china, is this ok. Because the china is not a free country.

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We had the same here in germany. After the WWII, people decided to build the FRG and GDR. The FRG (Western Germany) never accepted the GDR as an separate country.

Really? Nothing to do with the fact that the German people had no choice what-so-ever (they had just been crushed in a war) and that it was Russia who made all the decisions? Russia being the country that the Germans considered to be sub-human, and Russia making sure the Germans would be treated similar?

It would seem that you know less about your own country than the Chinese know of theirs. Or are you conveniently trying to re-write history, as DogBytes was trying to re-write the history for (the British stole! what crap) Hong Kong?

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flaming balloons

Really? Nothing to do with the fact that the German people had no choice what-so-ever (they had just been crushed in a war) and that it was Russia who made all the decisions? Russia being the country that the Germans considered to be sub-human, and Russia making sure the Germans would be treated similar?

This is not what i said. I said People- not the german people decided...
But it is also a fact, that there was a lot of german people, who liked, what they have done.

It would seem that you know less about your own country than the Chinese know of theirs. Or are you conveniently trying to re-write history, as DogBytes was trying to re-write the history for (the British stole! what crap) Hong Kong?

And have a look at your own history. The british troops occupied a small part of china. They called it Hong Kong. The chineese had no choice. They had to accept this. And these contract, was a joke.
But anyway this is history.

Free Taiwan!!!!

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