NB: This is a re-post of a reply in another thread. I started a new thread to show to crunch3r he has support. Anyone who wants to add, please do.

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Crunch3r has done so much and volunteered so much of his time optimizing applications and answering people's questions on this board that, even if he was suspected of cheating (WHICH I DO NOT THINK HE HAS DONE AT ALL), he should have gotten a courtesy call or e-mail.

Countless times have I said I need to uninstall/install this or that and have not had the time to get to it. I also have computers that I cannot reach but I can discontinue "work requests" at the click of a button since I have a web gui interface (I can access my intranet website through a VPN).

From what I gather (through Hans Dorn's explanation), there was a window where he could install 5.11 on machines (not in Beta) and not know he was doing something wrong (ROM's e-mail adds possibilities to that).

I even understand having 5.11 on his website as an old version because it was an old version. A purist would say if it was once offered, it should be acknowledged as an old version (which I would agree to and it seems Crunch3r does as well). Crunch3r even said there was a problem with it asking for too many credits. I saw it there and did not download it. If it is a problem for SETI@home then the SETI seniors should ask for it to be removed (which is what Crunch3r said in his post).

It is also possible he knew in the back of his mind that it was wrong but still didn't get around to it because, in any case, his result would be thrown out by the quorum. Nothing wrong with that (if end result is not affected).

All this seems to be a big misunderstanding. I cannot imagine that somebody who devotes a lot of time helping others would compromise his integrity by saying: YES, I WILL CHEAT. This does not mesh with all of Crunch3r's posts.

The SETI "powers that be" should step in (as ROM did) to defend this oversight (which is all it seems to be).

Michael

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There is no evidence Crunch3r cheated! He has made a massive contribution to the project and its so bad he is treated like a criminal. I sincerely hopes he sees this thread and comes back.

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I second it.

He is the last person to cheat. *IF* one had intended to cheat, he/she wouldn't have done it that way. Everyone can see it and he knows he is famous and that everyone would see his computers. And he knows even if only he claimed higher credits, if others don't, he could get normal credits granted. He can understand it as a matter of course. So from an objective viewpoint also, he didn't intend to cheat.

Personally I guess it's just a mistake (ex, forgot to upgrade his crunchers or something.)

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Luckiest in the world. WMD = Weapon of Mass Distraction.
Click this table.

Hello!


When Crunch3r would like to cheat, why he don´t "hidden" his computers?

And...
There must be 3 (4) completed WUs (from different PCs!) to become Credits...
And when one is "cheat", nothing happens!

I don´t know, why here (S@H) is a discussion over Crunch3r?
"And I don´t understand why Crunch3r stay in front of a wall here?!"
We must be happy that he is/ was :-( here!


...we are searching for "ET" here, or?
Or we counting the Credits here?
Can someone buy something with the Credits?


Greetings!

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I'll third it.

It is being suggested in the "please read what happened to..." thread that both SETI USA and SETI Germany are considering pulling out. Between them they have 17,860 users and have contributed over 228M credits. If this possibility actually happens then the fall-out from this is going to impact on the project considerably more than anyone may yet realise.

The fallout has begun. There are several members of our team (SETI.USA) and members of SG that have pulled the plug on Seti and are not comming back.

I believe that individuals and members of other teams have done the same...

Edit: Here is a interesting graph of number of active users participating in Seti

I second it.

He is the last person to cheat. *IF* one had intended to cheat, he/she wouldn't have done it that way. Everyone can see it and he knows he is famous and that everyone would see his computers. And he knows even if only he claimed higher credits, if others don't, he could get normal credits granted. He can understand it as a matter of course. So from an objective viewpoint also, he didn't intend to cheat.

Personally I guess it's just a mistake (ex, forgot to upgrade his crunchers or something.)

If TMR with his credability in the project belives this to be a simple mistake then I am even more convinced that Crunch3r deserves an appology.

If TMR with his credability in the project belives this to be a simple mistake then I am even more convinced that Crunch3r deserves an appology.

Yes, I also think he needs an apology, but that it's no more than a minor mistake. A small "sorry" will be fine.

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Luckiest in the world. WMD = Weapon of Mass Distraction.
Click this table.

I wholly agree.

The allegation of cheating made no sense:

a) It does not fit with the character that I have observed on these forums.
b) There was no motive, nor real opportunity.
c) The original evidence presented was at best flimsy, and explained away by others as well as Crunch3r.
d) The public manner in which the allegation was made was astounding and left me wondering what was behind the scenes.

Sadly, although an apology is certainly due, It alone cannot be enough now.

To Crunch3r. I hope you will re-consider your decision. In any event, thank you for what you have done, and all the best wishes for the future.

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Edit: Here is a interesting graph of number of active users participating in Seti

So, it is your contention, that 7,000 users have read what happened with Tony's over-enthusiastic "discovery" of Crunch3r's "cheating", and have decided that they should quit the project? Or, just that that was a funny trend?

Seriously, what is the audience of these forums? Maybe, maybe 500 people, total? How many people have an opinion on this? 150 maybe? And word of mouth spread that heavily?

Ridiculous.

Germany has a hard on for Crunch3r 'cause he's one of their own and their hero. The rivalry between Germany and USA means the USA has a similiar affiliation.

If anything, the max exodous is occurring/will occur because of 2 reasons:

1) Credit lovers (and anyone on a competative team is one, that's the game and they like to play) got all psyched up about what they could do with Optimized, and now that rocket has run out of fuel.

2) Farmers/Power Crunchers are obcessed with keeping their machines running 24/7 at peak use. They don't use the machines, they keep them running to do work, not sit and loop. The bugs in the new Enhanced app are immediately noticed by them, and they do not like "wasting" their massive amount of crunching resources.

The former is due to a backwards take on the concept of "fairness" and a little bit of elitism. Their VIP card has been shredded.

The latter is sadly, more valid. Temporary, by all means, but, I get the feeling it's like they lent their neighbor their garden hose to water the flowers, and the neighbor just left it running and pouring into the street all day.

Anyone actually on a crunching team is a huge geek, and geeks commonly never learned to act like adults. All they ever got was how things worked in Junior High, with bullying and threats and snearing. Almost ever geek I've ever known was socially awkward and immature. Put two of them together, and it's middle school all over again. So of course everyone here is acting like children.

Right when everyone's having to get used to the reality of the new credit, and the focus is all on the power of Optimized clients and how the Optimized users are claiming to being raped over a barrel... was reaaaaally the wrong time for anyone to be picking a fight with the hero of Optimizing.

The Optimized community (a good portion of the entire S@H forum community) now has an angry badger up their asses.

If everyone sits back and chills, things will be cool again.

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Edit: Here is a interesting graph of number of active users participating in Seti

I'm afraid that graph doesn't represent anything current.
Note that an active user is one who has reported a result in the last 30 days.
If the graph represents users that have left, then it represents users who left 30 days ago - before all this.

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Guess we'll have to wait a few more weeks then to see the mass exodus shown graphically.


Will check back in 3 weeks cuz i cba reading anymore of this forum. Its doin my nut in atm.

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Guess we'll have to wait a few more weeks then to see the mass exodus shown graphically.


Will check back in 3 weeks cuz i cba reading anymore of this forum. Its doin my nut in atm.

I have to say a correctly moded forum would of at least prevented the Crunch3r problem eg. No personal attacks, If you suspect someone is cheating, email a mod, don't post it. plus any other common sence forum rules you care to think of.

Babyface UK

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Stupid discussion at all it seems,

there are so many good argues why there´s no evidence of cheating or manipulating seti @all.

I do not follow all the things going around in proging seti and boinc, i´m just crunching for the search of ET :-)

That´s the main thought of this project and it always should be.

To crunch3r:

Just be aware there were people in the middle ages who said "earth is no plate".
To me it seems berkeley and all the people against your work are acting the same.

Why use the free and non profit work of someone who has different ideas and know-how.
Berkeley gets all the donated money for the project. To me it seems that the honey collectors are not willing to share the big potential of the idea of this project.

"I got paid for it, so i decide" - Such thoughts make me sick.

Crunch3r,

again thanks for the time spending and working for free.
Go on being a pioneer. Many will follow, just wait and see.

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All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.

Thank you Crunch3r for all the work done for this community,
take care, because there will always be minor minds who want to make themselves bigger than they really are, ... by trying to rub others in the dirt.

Greetings from Belgium,
HP ;-))

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Crunch3r, thank you for all you have done for us, I really hope you read this thread and have a change of heart. I only have two slow machines and your apps helped me to get some real results.

PLEASE COME BACK TO US.

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PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC

Crunch3r,

Thanks for your help and good luck in whatever you decide to do.

And "May the force be with you." ;-)

Thanks,
Vader

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Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station. - Grand Moff Tarkin

some new Info, before the Strike begins

I have just recieved an email from Crunch3r, and he is suggesting that we wait for a while with any protest strike. He is in direct negotiations with Rom Walton and Dr. Anderson. We need to wait at least until the middle of next week before organizing a mass protest, so that the negotiations between them can take place. Crunch3r said that the whole of Planet3DNow team will also support the strike, IF it is necessary. So, for now, we need to just hold on until Crunch3r gives the word.

Regards, Daniel.

http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2152

for Info

Greetings from Germany NRW
Ulli

some new Info, before the Strike begins

I have just recieved an email from Crunch3r, and he is suggesting that we wait for a while with any protest strike. He is in direct negotiations with Rom Walton and Dr. Anderson. We need to wait at least until the middle of next week before organizing a mass protest, so that the negotiations between them can take place. Crunch3r said that the whole of Planet3DNow team will also support the strike, IF it is necessary. So, for now, we need to just hold on until Crunch3r gives the word.

Regards, Daniel.

http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2152

for Info

Greetings from Germany NRW
Ulli

I got a little head start on this. I stopped receiving new work yesterday. Waiting to see how this comes out before returning to the project. As it stands right now - Einstein here I come.

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http://www.setiusa.net

some new Info, before the Strike begins

I have just recieved an email from Crunch3r, and he is suggesting that we wait for a while with any protest strike. He is in direct negotiations with Rom Walton and Dr. Anderson. We need to wait at least until the middle of next week before organizing a mass protest, so that the negotiations between them can take place. Crunch3r said that the whole of Planet3DNow team will also support the strike, IF it is necessary. So, for now, we need to just hold on until Crunch3r gives the word.

Regards, Daniel.

http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2152

for Info

Greetings from Germany NRW
Ulli

Message received, Will comply.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

He is the last person to cheat. *IF* one had intended to cheat, he/she wouldn't have done it that way. Everyone can see it and he knows he is famous and that everyone would see his computers. And he knows even if only he claimed higher credits, if others don't, he could get normal credits granted. He can understand it as a matter of course. So from an objective viewpoint also, he didn't intend to cheat.

Personally I guess it's just a mistake (ex, forgot to upgrade his crunchers or something.)

Absolutely :)

Ned

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