Never got into smoking. I'd rather drink lots of red bull before draging body parts at triple digit speeds while on two wheels for hours on end. Best drug ever!

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IAS - Where Space Is Golden!

Never got into smoking. I'd rather drink lots of red bull before draging body parts at triple digit speeds while on two wheels for hours on end. Best drug ever!

...o0(Now I know what I'll do the next 4-wheeling trip, the question is, will i be able to get pictures of it) (if only they knew Mikey, they'd know you don't need medication to be screwed up.

Perhaps it should be made a prescription drug?

Lets face it, prescription drugs are more widely used than any kind of recreational or illegal drug(s) (including alcohol) and its so easy to get presecriptions anyway.....

At least in time, there would be plenty of data to analyse exactly what impact it is having on society at large (if any).

You go to the doc because of stress and he gives you a stick and a bong perhaps recommending a few tracks of Bob Marley....Cool.....

---

Belief gets in the way of learning

Perhaps it should be made a prescription drug?

Lets face it, prescription drugs are more widely used than any kind of recreational or illegal drug(s) (including alcohol) and its so easy to get presecriptions anyway.....

At least in time, there would be plenty of data to analyse exactly what impact it is having on society at large (if any).

You go to the doc because of stress and he gives you a stick and a bong perhaps recommending a few tracks of Bob Marley....Cool.....

Like I have said before this argument needs to be centered around the idea that one's body belongs to oneself. It doesn't belong to the government, your neighbors, your cat, or anyone else.

If, philosophically speaking, one's body is your own then the answer is obvious. You can trash it, sign it up for military service, engage in romantic encounters, employ it, sell it for the highest dollar, move it around (*flailing arms in a panic comes to mind:-)*)

Do whatever.........That's why many of the controversial topics of the day get buried....The debaters don't know the definition or identity of what an individual is.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Perhaps it should be made a prescription drug?

Lets face it, prescription drugs are more widely used than any kind of recreational or illegal drug(s) (including alcohol) and its so easy to get presecriptions anyway.....

At least in time, there would be plenty of data to analyse exactly what impact it is having on society at large (if any).

You go to the doc because of stress and he gives you a stick and a bong perhaps recommending a few tracks of Bob Marley....Cool.....

Like I have said before this argument needs to be centered around the idea that one's body belongs to oneself. It doesn't belong to the government, your neighbors, your cat, or anyone else.

If, philosophically speaking, one's body is your own then the answer is obvious. You can trash it, sign it up for military service, engage in romantic encounters, employ it, sell it for the highest dollar, move it around (*flailing arms in a panic comes to mind:-)*)

Do whatever.........That's why many of the controversial topics of the day get buried....The debaters don't know the definition or identity of what an individual is.

Robert, I do agree. I'm a biker, and I always wear a helmet. It is my personal choice, also the law here. BUT, I say, it should be the bikers choice...if he wants to spread his jello out all over the highway, I say let him, it is his body.

Same with seat belts for adults. Should be a choice, and I don't believe the government should dictate our choice.

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Robert, I do agree. I'm a biker, and I always wear a helmet. It is my personal choice, also the law here. BUT, I say, it should be the bikers choice...if he wants to spread his jello out all over the highway, I say let him, it is his body.

Same with seat belts for adults. Should be a choice, and I don't believe the government should dictate our choice.

Who's paying to scrape all those brains of the highway? ;-)

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Reality Internet Personality

Robert, I do agree. I'm a biker, and I always wear a helmet. It is my personal choice, also the law here. BUT, I say, it should be the bikers choice...if he wants to spread his jello out all over the highway, I say let him, it is his body.

Same with seat belts for adults. Should be a choice, and I don't believe the government should dictate our choice.

Who's paying to scrape all those brains of the highway? ;-)

In the case of smoking weed...why is it illegal, yet, Alcohol (which is just as dangerous) is legal?

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In the case of smoking weed...why is it illegal, yet, Alcohol (which is just as dangerous) is legal?

Preaching to the choir here. You don't get people coming home from a night out smoking pot and beating up their wives.

It's not physically addictive the way alcohol is, it rarely causes aggression.

It is totally ridiculous that it is illegal.

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Reality Internet Personality

Perhaps it should be made a prescription drug?

Lets face it, prescription drugs are more widely used than any kind of recreational or illegal drug(s) (including alcohol) and its so easy to get presecriptions anyway.....

At least in time, there would be plenty of data to analyse exactly what impact it is having on society at large (if any).

You go to the doc because of stress and he gives you a stick and a bong perhaps recommending a few tracks of Bob Marley....Cool.....

Like I have said before this argument needs to be centered around the idea that one's body belongs to oneself. It doesn't belong to the government, your neighbors, your cat, or anyone else.

If, philosophically speaking, one's body is your own then the answer is obvious. You can trash it, sign it up for military service, engage in romantic encounters, employ it, sell it for the highest dollar, move it around (*flailing arms in a panic comes to mind:-)*)

Do whatever.........That's why many of the controversial topics of the day get buried....The debaters don't know the definition or identity of what an individual is.

Robert, I do agree. I'm a biker, and I always wear a helmet. It is my personal choice, also the law here. BUT, I say, it should be the bikers choice...if he wants to spread his jello out all over the highway, I say let him, it is his body.

Same with seat belts for adults. Should be a choice, and I don't believe the government should dictate our choice.

I would agree with this reasoning, IF people under the influence of DRUGS and ALCOHOL stayed at home (or some other safe place) and didn't get in their cars, bikes and what not and damage other peoples bodies, property etc etc.

Some people under the influence of drugs and alcohol do things that could be classed as "out of character" which affects innocent people and just adds to normative social problems. It seems that ethics and morals are just "switched off" until the next morning.....

If you want to drink or take drungs fine, just do it in certain designated places and stay there until your behavior and senses return to normal. Then get in your car/bike/plane or what ever.

The no helmet scenario is the same.... everyone pays, not just the person on the bike or the person without their seatbelt on.

---

Belief gets in the way of learning

I'm addicted to chocolate, the dark kind, with at least 45% cocoa. Usually eating a hundred grams a day. Lindt Excellence is a favourite brand.

I'm with ya on the dark chocolate, the real stuff.

Lindt's nice, and creamy smooth, but I kinda like Godiva's, myself.

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Perhaps it should be made a prescription drug?

Lets face it, prescription drugs are more widely used than any kind of recreational or illegal drug(s) (including alcohol) and its so easy to get presecriptions anyway.....

At least in time, there would be plenty of data to analyse exactly what impact it is having on society at large (if any).

You go to the doc because of stress and he gives you a stick and a bong perhaps recommending a few tracks of Bob Marley....Cool.....

Like I have said before this argument needs to be centered around the idea that one's body belongs to oneself. It doesn't belong to the government, your neighbors, your cat, or anyone else.

If, philosophically speaking, one's body is your own then the answer is obvious. You can trash it, sign it up for military service, engage in romantic encounters, employ it, sell it for the highest dollar, move it around (*flailing arms in a panic comes to mind:-)*)

Do whatever.........That's why many of the controversial topics of the day get buried....The debaters don't know the definition or identity of what an individual is.

Robert, I do agree. I'm a biker, and I always wear a helmet. It is my personal choice, also the law here. BUT, I say, it should be the bikers choice...if he wants to spread his jello out all over the highway, I say let him, it is his body.

Same with seat belts for adults. Should be a choice, and I don't believe the government should dictate our choice.

I would agree with this reasoning, IF people under the influence of DRUGS and ALCOHOL stayed at home (or some other safe place) and didn't get in their cars, bikes and what not and damage other peoples bodies, property etc etc.

Some people under the influence of drugs and alcohol do things that could be classed as "out of character" which affects innocent people and just adds to normative social problems. It seems that ethics and morals are just "switched off" until the next morning.....

If you want to drink or take drungs fine, just do it in certain designated places and stay there until your behavior and senses return to normal. Then get in your car/bike/plane or what ever.

The no helmet scenario is the same.... everyone pays, not just the person on the bike or the person without their seatbelt on.

You missed my point.

Alcohol (also a drug) is LEGAL to buy and kills just as much as illegal drugs.

So if Alcohol is legal, and there are laws that are supposed to prevent you from driving while under the influence of that drug...why can't weed be legal too with the same restrictions on use?

You cannot compare them becuase they are BOTH drugs. The difference is, one is legal, while the other is not and that is GAY.

---

In the case of smoking weed...why is it illegal, yet, Alcohol (which is just as dangerous) is legal?

Preaching to the choir here. You don't get people coming home from a night out smoking pot and beating up their wives.

It's not physically addictive the way alcohol is, it rarely causes aggression.

It is totally ridiculous that it is illegal.

I agree here. And I don't advocate its legality by comparing it to alcohol which is far more dangerous. Polemically speaking, it's useful to compare it to things that are legal like beer and cigarettes in order to point out the hypocrisy inherent in the law. But in my view it still comes down to a matter of rights....either you own your body or you don't. You're free or your not and if someone is cornered by this logic then they'll end up asking themselves if they fundamentally advocate the position that an individual isn't an individual and belongs to the state, or the commune, or the herd, or god, or any other entity the little despots want to dream up next.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Perhaps it should be made a prescription drug?

Lets face it, prescription drugs are more widely used than any kind of recreational or illegal drug(s) (including alcohol) and its so easy to get presecriptions anyway.....

At least in time, there would be plenty of data to analyse exactly what impact it is having on society at large (if any).

You go to the doc because of stress and he gives you a stick and a bong perhaps recommending a few tracks of Bob Marley....Cool.....

Like I have said before this argument needs to be centered around the idea that one's body belongs to oneself. It doesn't belong to the government, your neighbors, your cat, or anyone else.

If, philosophically speaking, one's body is your own then the answer is obvious. You can trash it, sign it up for military service, engage in romantic encounters, employ it, sell it for the highest dollar, move it around (*flailing arms in a panic comes to mind:-)*)

Do whatever.........That's why many of the controversial topics of the day get buried....The debaters don't know the definition or identity of what an individual is.

Robert, I do agree. I'm a biker, and I always wear a helmet. It is my personal choice, also the law here. BUT, I say, it should be the bikers choice...if he wants to spread his jello out all over the highway, I say let him, it is his body.

Same with seat belts for adults. Should be a choice, and I don't believe the government should dictate our choice.

I would agree with this reasoning, IF people under the influence of DRUGS and ALCOHOL stayed at home (or some other safe place) and didn't get in their cars, bikes and what not and damage other peoples bodies, property etc etc.

Some people under the influence of drugs and alcohol do things that could be classed as "out of character" which affects innocent people and just adds to normative social problems. It seems that ethics and morals are just "switched off" until the next morning.....

If you want to drink or take drungs fine, just do it in certain designated places and stay there until your behavior and senses return to normal. Then get in your car/bike/plane or what ever.

The no helmet scenario is the same.... everyone pays, not just the person on the bike or the person without their seatbelt on.

You missed my point.

Alcohol (also a drug) is LEGAL to buy and kills just as much as illegal drugs.

So if Alcohol is legal, and there are laws that are supposed to prevent you from driving while under the influence of that drug...why can't weed be legal too with the same restrictions on use?

You cannot compare them becuase they are BOTH drugs. The difference is, one is legal, while the other is not and that is GAY.

Given that EITHER Alcohol or Cannabis cause the following to a lesser or greater degree collectively (ie. an individual may expereience one or more of the following when taking them)

1. Anti-social behavior (individuals or groups)
2. Addiction
3. Directly contribute to increased fatalities of innocent people
4. When used to excess cause bodily harm (and a burden on the health system)

Alcohol is widely used (legally and illegaly) because

a. Its legal
b. Its readily accessible

If weed was also legal you would most certainly multiply the problems (1-4) as a cross-section of society who don't currently drink may take up weed. Or drinkers that don't smoke weed, may start taking both or just weed! Does this make sense?

The net results: An increased use of drugs.

The question of whether weed should replace alcohol, may be more sensible. But adding to an already major problem is simply nonsensical!

Weed may create a whole set of problems which medicine is not aware of
beacuse the relative number of people taking it today as compared to drinkers is simply not known. The long term affects of alcohol on physical health, sanity etc are better know today (but far from fully understood IMO).

Do we know (medically speaking) the long terms affects of cannabis on a broad cross-section of society??

---

Belief gets in the way of learning

Enigma, my point is more simple...to make Alcohol legal while making weed illegal is stupid.

They both harm...

---

Perhaps it should be made a prescription drug?

Lets face it, prescription drugs are more widely used than any kind of recreational or illegal drug(s) (including alcohol) and its so easy to get presecriptions anyway.....

At least in time, there would be plenty of data to analyse exactly what impact it is having on society at large (if any).

You go to the doc because of stress and he gives you a stick and a bong perhaps recommending a few tracks of Bob Marley....Cool.....

Like I have said before this argument needs to be centered around the idea that one's body belongs to oneself. It doesn't belong to the government, your neighbors, your cat, or anyone else.

If, philosophically speaking, one's body is your own then the answer is obvious. You can trash it, sign it up for military service, engage in romantic encounters, employ it, sell it for the highest dollar, move it around (*flailing arms in a panic comes to mind:-)*)

Do whatever.........That's why many of the controversial topics of the day get buried....The debaters don't know the definition or identity of what an individual is.

Robert, I do agree. I'm a biker, and I always wear a helmet. It is my personal choice, also the law here. BUT, I say, it should be the bikers choice...if he wants to spread his jello out all over the highway, I say let him, it is his body.

Same with seat belts for adults. Should be a choice, and I don't believe the government should dictate our choice.

I would agree with this reasoning, IF people under the influence of DRUGS and ALCOHOL stayed at home (or some other safe place) and didn't get in their cars, bikes and what not and damage other peoples bodies, property etc etc.

Some people under the influence of drugs and alcohol do things that could be classed as "out of character" which affects innocent people and just adds to normative social problems. It seems that ethics and morals are just "switched off" until the next morning.....

If you want to drink or take drungs fine, just do it in certain designated places and stay there until your behavior and senses return to normal. Then get in your car/bike/plane or what ever.

The no helmet scenario is the same.... everyone pays, not just the person on the bike or the person without their seatbelt on.

You missed my point.

Alcohol (also a drug) is LEGAL to buy and kills just as much as illegal drugs.

So if Alcohol is legal, and there are laws that are supposed to prevent you from driving while under the influence of that drug...why can't weed be legal too with the same restrictions on use?

You cannot compare them becuase they are BOTH drugs. The difference is, one is legal, while the other is not and that is GAY.

Given that EITHER Alcohol or Cannabis cause the following to a lesser or greater degree collectively (ie. an individual may expereience one or more of the following when taking them)

1. Anti-social behavior (individuals or groups)
2. Addiction
3. Directly contribute to increased fatalities of innocent people
4. When used to excess cause bodily harm (and a burden on the health system)

Alcohol is widely used (legally and illegaly) because

a. Its legal
b. Its readily accessible

If weed was also legal you would most certainly multiply the problems (1-4) as a cross-section of society who don't currently drink may take up weed. Or drinkers that don't smoke weed, may start taking both or just weed! Does this make sense?

The net results: An increased use of drugs.

The question of whether weed should replace alcohol, may be more sensible. But adding to an already major problem is simply nonsensical!

Weed may create a whole set of problems which medicine is not aware of
beacuse the relative number of people taking it today as compared to drinkers is simply not known. The long term affects of alcohol on physical health, sanity etc are better know today (but far from fully understood IMO).

Do we know (medically speaking) the long terms affects of cannabis on a broad cross-section of society??

Enigma, I address here 2 points while I have the time. I persist that this is a 'rights' issue and not a practical one insofar as public safety is concerned. This is a thing that I want to reduce to philosophic premises and not traffic concerns. Anyone endangering others is subject to criminal punishment. I don't use illegal drugs and don't advocate their usage as a matter of course (medical circumstances as the exception).

The main point being, if we are to uphold the idea of one's body belonging to oneself as property then we must uphold this idea ultimately and fundamentally, and do so without failure.

I do not care much for the harms that cannabis supposedly has upon a populace. Most of us understand that much of this sentiment is rooted in old fears propagandized by old governments. But I'll be more forthright about this position and go over the top and state that if you desire to use cocaine or heroin or opium that should be your right. If you truly own yourself then I don't know how to logically back away from this claim. It does NOT mean that I think using drugs is a good thing to do......it just means I advocate one's right to choose one way or another as each man/woman belongs to theirselves...I hope I've been clear here but if not I will elaborate.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Enigma, my point is more simple...to make Alcohol legal while making weed illegal is stupid.

They both harm...

Made illegal in a time of 'more ignorance'?? Stupid or not, its the law <grin> and making alcohol illegal would not be the correct course of action either.

At one time it was legal to drink and drive and smoke (cigarettes) anywhere.

Now its illegal to smoke in many public places (in Australia) and well drink/driving is heavily regulated. Perhaps in time alcohol will be outlawed or its usage dramatically restricted at which point other drugs may become legal within the same frame-work?? Who knows.

So what do you suggest?

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Belief gets in the way of learning

Enigma, my point is more simple...to make Alcohol legal while making weed illegal is stupid.

They both harm...

Made illegal in a time of 'more ignorance'?? Stupid or not, its the law <grin> and making alcohol illegal would not be the correct course of action either.

At one time it was legal to drink and drive and smoke (cigarettes) anywhere.

Now its illegal to smoke in many public places (in Australia) and well drink/driving is heavily regulated. Perhaps in time alcohol will be outlawed or its usage dramatically restricted at which point other drugs may become legal within the same frame-work?? Who knows.

So what do you suggest?

I am opposed to all of that. I stand by liberty and advocate it unequivocally. No exceptions.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I agree here. And I don't advocate its legality by comparing it to alcohol which is far more dangerous. Polemically speaking, it's useful to compare it to things that are legal like beer and cigarettes in order to point out the hypocrisy inherent in the law. But in my view it still comes down to a matter of rights....either you own your body or you don't. You're free or your not and if someone is cornered by this logic then they'll end up asking themselves if they fundamentally advocate the position that an individual isn't an individual and belongs to the state, or the commune, or the herd, or god, or any other entity the little despots want to dream up next.

Rob, i chose to respond to this post rather than your later one's as this captures the essence of what you are saying (and i am too lazy to go back through all the posts lol).

Don't take this personally, but to me, your reasoning is completely polarised. Black and White and totally without context.

By your line of reasoning, you can put substances in your body which have consequences beyond you and your body. Or you can take substances out of your body, which also has consequences beyond you and your body.

ANY kind of abortion, drug use, 'public display' or 'general behavior' (involving your body) would be okay!?

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Belief gets in the way of learning

I agree here. And I don't advocate its legality by comparing it to alcohol which is far more dangerous. Polemically speaking, it's useful to compare it to things that are legal like beer and cigarettes in order to point out the hypocrisy inherent in the law. But in my view it still comes down to a matter of rights....either you own your body or you don't. You're free or your not and if someone is cornered by this logic then they'll end up asking themselves if they fundamentally advocate the position that an individual isn't an individual and belongs to the state, or the commune, or the herd, or god, or any other entity the little despots want to dream up next.

Rob, i chose to respond to this post rather than your later one's as this captures the essence of what you are saying (and i am too lazy to go back through all the posts lol).

Don't take this personally, but to me, your reasoning is completely polarised. Black and White and totally without context.

By your line of reasoning, you can put substances in your body which have consequences beyond you and your body. Or you can take substances out of your body, which also has consequences beyond you and your body.

ANY kind of abortion, drug use, 'public display' or 'general behavior' (involving your body) would be okay!?

How did abortion get tossed into this?

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