We all know that many Classic users are angry and yelling on this forum because they'd rather Seti continue to crunch the same units over and over rather than progress to actually do science.

Well, look... they're complaining to other projects too :) Thread starts at bottom.

http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3414

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Intresting. Why did that guy say that the classic users "recieved shabby treatment towards the end" and thus pushed him over to Einstein? They were only warning about closing down classic for over a year now... Sounds like someone was a little lazy too switch everything over to the better project. Cant say i blame him for that, but it couldnt have gone on forever. The software was old. The work was old.

Id like to know what he meant by "shabby treatment" its not like they were left out in the cold, there were links all over the classic site directing to the new seti boinc site and tons of info for getting everything up and running.

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We all know that many Classic users are angry and yelling on this forum because they'd rather Seti continue to crunch the same units over and over rather than progress to actually do science.

Well, look... they're complaining to other projects too :) Thread starts at bottom.

http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_thread.php?id=3414

I have to assume that people who didn't know that Classic was closing and they should move to BOINC, also wouldn't be aware that they were crunching the same work over and over, not advancing the science.

Frankly I don't have much time for those that feel the were poorly treated. They chose to stick their heads in in the sand and hope it wouldn't go away.

An 18 month change-over period was in the circumstances incredilbly generous of Berkeley. Given their equipment shortage thsy could have gone for a smash and grab shutdown and re-deploy.

I know there are participants who have hardware/networking constraints that mean they cannot move to BOINC as is. Those prople should have come over here and put their case for changes during the past 18 months, not wait for the day and then bleat.

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Crying Classic Users (SETI@home orphans)
Not the most welcoming of thread titles.

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Grant
Darwin NT

You're assuming I meant for it to be welcoming!

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Crying Classic Users (SETI@home orphans)
Not the most welcoming of thread titles.

Classic is the proverbial dead horse. We really need to stop beating the horse, it's over, dead, done, pau, finished. It isn't coming back. Ever.

... and while we're on the subject, we also need to remember that if you want to catch a bee, use honey, not vinegar. Those late-adopters that are just now moving from Classic need to be aware that bashing BOINC is not going to inspire those who are best positioned to help.

... and yeah, SETI could have done a better job communicating if they weren't running a project on a shoestring, with almost no staff and vanishingly small funding.

We've all seen the joke about doing more and more with less and less, but SETI is actually doing practically everything with virtually nothing.

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Crying Classic Users (SETI@home orphans)
Not the most welcoming of thread titles.

Classic is the proverbial dead horse. We really need to stop beating the horse, it's over, dead, done, pau, finished. It isn't coming back. Ever.

... and while we're on the subject, we also need to remember that if you want to catch a bee, use honey, not vinegar. Those late-adopters that are just now moving from Classic need to be aware that bashing BOINC is not going to inspire those who are best positioned to help.

... and yeah, SETI could have done a better job communicating if they weren't running a project on a shoestring, with almost no staff and vanishingly small funding.

We've all seen the joke about doing more and more with less and less, but SETI is actually doing practically everything with virtually nothing.

LOL, all good points!

However, I take exception to the concept they are in complete poverty though. I certainly wouldn't mind having the contents of their server closet at my disposal. :-)

Alinator

Crying Classic Users (SETI@home orphans)
Not the most welcoming of thread titles.

Classic is the proverbial dead horse. We really need to stop beating the horse, it's over, dead, done, pau, finished. It isn't coming back. Ever.

... and while we're on the subject, we also need to remember that if you want to catch a bee, use honey, not vinegar. Those late-adopters that are just now moving from Classic need to be aware that bashing BOINC is not going to inspire those who are best positioned to help.

... and yeah, SETI could have done a better job communicating if they weren't running a project on a shoestring, with almost no staff and vanishingly small funding.

We've all seen the joke about doing more and more with less and less, but SETI is actually doing practically everything with virtually nothing.

LOL, all good points!

However, I take exception to the concept they are in complete poverty though. I certainly wouldn't mind having the contents of their server closet at my disposal. :-)

Alinator

Even so, everything they have would kindly be called "experienced" with the possible exception of the V40z.

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Even so, everything they have would kindly be called "experienced" with the possible exception of the V40z.

LOL, I like that. I'll use that terminology the next time I sell off a used machine. :-)

Alinator

We should use something like this: "Like it, or leave it ;)" Kinda rough, but it gets the idea through, f you know what I mean.
I mean come on people, nobody is beign forced to change projects or whatever. The only thing I might request is the "original" screen saver. Even tho, i stopped using tha after 6 months of using classic and i switched to the command line one...

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Everybody who cries about orphaned units had plenty of time to convert and oodles of warnings, etc, about exiting Classic. They even know that Classic units were scientifically worthless toward the end. I'm glad I converted on November 1 and 2, before the ultimatum. Here at Boinc I'm crunching units half-again as fast thanks to Tetsuji Maverick Rai. Unfortunately I can't use the newest cruncher developed by Maverick and several others, including Crunch3r, because I only have Windows 98SE. Don't know what's gonna become of the newly-released 65nm version of the Pentium Double Core Extreme mentioned at Toms. I suppose it'll be more expensive than the current Extreme Dual-Core, but I don't know.

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Here's a (perhaps) new slant on this topic...

My signature shows the time and processed WU that I've contributed to SetiClassic. I'm proud of that contribution. I suffered with the folks at Berkeley thru their various crises: the flooded closet, the random building-wide power shut-offs, the stolen cables. I didn't do it to gain some sort of braqging rights with others. I did it to contribute to an important (IMHO) scientific endeavor.

I knew that SetiClassic was dying and that I would need to switch to BOINC eventually. But BOINC was not compatible with my crunching style: moving from classroom computer to classroom computer, carrying a USB drive with SetiDriver, setiathome, and some teaching aids. When the final ultimatum came thru, I went quietly, and now I'm BOINCing away on two computers, still contributing to science, and moving up the Credit Chart (OK, SOME bragging rights...).

What leaves me feeling betrayed is the fact that my last SetiClassic contributions were p***ed away to let some people meet their own self-imposed WU goals. Once SetiClassic stopped doing real science they should have shut it down cold. It's as if the Habitat For Humanity (?) people sent a bunch of their volunteers around painting and repainting the same surfaces, just to keep them busy after the home was finished... Or the Red Cross kept taking blood donations after the freezer was full, and flushing them, just so some donors could reach some volume level...

When the last compilation of SetiClassic WU is done, I WISH that the PowersThatBe could separate them into "real" WUs crunched, and "placebo" WUs. I feel uncomfortable with the latter in my signature.

Oh, by the way, Happy New Year...

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Here's a (perhaps) new slant on this topic...

(snip)

What leaves me feeling betrayed is the fact that my last SetiClassic contributions were p***ed away to let some people meet their own self-imposed WU goals. Once SetiClassic stopped doing real science they should have shut it down cold.

(snip)

Oh, by the way, Happy New Year...

As with the shutting down of any business, sometimes sacrafices have to be made to do what is needed. Shutting down any earlier could have created some great havok than was seen. They were trying to be as ready for the influx of new users as possible, before the shutdown. So they set a date and a goal. I can see your point, but some factors are beyond control. Maybe they had some other issues to resolve before the shutdown that we do not see. Things like their working on grant purposals that they needed certain counts for to make work out.

It's not necessarily as black and white as you put it. I too am proud that I crunched Classic for a couple of years. I am proud of all the people who did their part. I do not think the last few weeks were necessarily futile. I am betting if we saw all the pieces of the puzzle, we'd understand more. We sit here and can speculate so many things, but we are not there, we do not know what the day to day havok is like. The thousands of e-mails each one receives on a daily?/weekly? basis.

I am sure it could be explained to us why it went through the stages it did, but I know they did what they could to make it as smooth as they could.

BOINC is not perfect (yet), and has some growing, but with the dedication of the team they have, the loyalty of users like yourself, this project can grow into something we may never have believed could have been done.

I applaud all your hard work over the years. I applaud all Classic crunchers. You did a very fine job. Give yourself a pat on the back for making this project one of the world's more recognized.

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My movie https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/502242

Everybody who cries about orphaned units had plenty of time to convert and oodles of warnings, etc, about exiting Classic. They even know that Classic units were scientifically worthless toward the end. I'm glad I converted on November 1 and 2, before the ultimatum. Here at Boinc I'm crunching units half-again as fast thanks to Tetsuji Maverick Rai. Unfortunately I can't use the newest cruncher developed by Maverick and several others, including Crunch3r, because I only have Windows 98SE. Don't know what's gonna become of the newly-released 65nm version of the Pentium Double Core Extreme mentioned at Toms. I suppose it'll be more expensive than the current Extreme Dual-Core, but I don't know.

I'm using Crunch3r's SSE app on a 500 mhz pent3 with 98 SE and haven't had a problem. It might work for you as well.

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Once SetiClassic stopped doing real science they should have shut it down cold.

Unfortunately BOINC wasn't ready at that stage.

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Grant
Darwin NT

... and while we're on the subject, we also need to remember that if you want to catch a bee, use honey, not vinegar. Those late-adopters that are just now moving from Classic need to be aware that bashing BOINC is not going to inspire those who are best positioned to help.

And people abusing those coming over isn't going to help either.
It works both ways.

Basic netiquette applies- ignore the noisy idiots & try to help those that ask for it.
As far as the moaners are concered, forget them - they'll either get over it or they won't. But titles such as for this thread (and the attitudes it implies) will alienate many others that initially didn't feel alienated.

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Grant
Darwin NT

And people abusing those coming over isn't going to help either.
It works both ways.

Basic netiquette applies- ignore the noisy idiots & try to help those that ask for it.

In the help desk forums we even try to help those that don't ask for it. That way some were saved and are now happy crunchers. Others are just plain obnoxious and only there to troll and be obnoxious as they cannot be so over here, for they have no credits.

So I hope that people see a bit further than just the NC forum and come look down in the underworld some day. It's easy to point people to post in the "correct forum" in Science and the Cafe, but if you never follow the people to the place you sent them to, it's not much use either.

And then of course all kudo's and credit always go to mmciastro, easily forgetting those of us who slaved in those forums way before he made his entry and way after he left it. ;)

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...oodles of warnings, etc, about exiting Classic. They even know that Classic units were scientifically worthless toward the end....

I for one did not know about the coming switch or that my units were worthless. I never visited the website and was not signed up for the newsletters. The first notice I received was the ultimatum message that popped up in Seti classic near the end.

Had I known I was crunching worthless numbers I would have switched a long time ago, and I was quite happy when I found all these other projects that I could run at the same time. BOINC has got me reading the forums, participating in three additional projects (Rosetta, Einstein, ufluids) and is overall a much better program from what I can tell.

I have not been crying about lost work units, so I suppose your message was not actually directed at me, but my interpretation is that you are assuming everyone who is complaining knew about the coming change which I think is a very wild assumption considering my own experience.

Although, I am crying a bit -- Since I'm still living in exile from New Orleans I don't have a broadband connection. So my computer with much better number crunching ability is unable to receive work units! The agony is unbareable! ;-)

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We all know that many Classic users are angry and yelling on this forum because they'd rather Seti continue to crunch the same units over and over rather than progress to actually do science...

I really don't think that most Classic users wanted to continue to crunch the same units over and over - but I do believe that many who had been through the early days of the original SETI@Home project remembered the problems with the clients, and weren't particularly thrilled about being "early adopters" (read: beta testers) for the new project. However, now that SETI@Home I is over, I see a number moving over to BOINC (both SETI and other projects) - and the most common complaint re: SETI (if you can call it a complaint, I think it's more of a "wish") is that there had been some method planned to migrate the credit from the original project into the current one, even if it weren't possible for it to be completely accurate.

Anyway - yes, there's some wailing and gnashing of teeth, and not all of it's justified - but I think that a method (even if imperfect) for the migration of credit to the new project would have counted for a lot. Of course, that's just the opinion of one Crying Classic User (SETI@Home orphan).

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Here at Boinc I'm crunching units half-again as fast thanks to Tetsuji Maverick Rai. Unfortunately I can't use the newest cruncher developed by Maverick and several others, including Crunch3r, because I only have Windows 98SE.

I'm using Crunch3r's SSE app on a 500 mhz pent3 with 98 SE and haven't had a problem. It might work for you as well.

Thanks, Firebird. I may give that a try.

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