I know when I was crunching Classic, I NEVER visited the home page. I either had saved links to the stats page, or mainly used the team's 3rd party stats. Anything else was just fluff.

It was your choice to be ignorant of what was hapening around you, so that makes it your problem.

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Grant
Darwin NT

...No, this is certainly not a complete waste and ... appreciate, that developing the distributed computer project as the Classic Seti@Home, ... and now is replaced with the BOINC Seti@Home, has become a landmark in the ability to compute data...

We owe the guys here at Seti@Home a huge thank you, because they made it possible for us to participate in projects of different kind...

Thank you! Someone else who knows what I'm talking about. As illustrated in previous posts, ... I just wish that conditions can be accepted the way they are. To meet the demands of all, they have compromised to the middle and set. But all in all, I think things are very good. So, Happy Holidays everyone and Merry Christmas!

I think that most users will agree with the above sentiments.

Note that those making a big noise and fuss on these forums about credits I estimate to be only about 0.001% of all Boinc-s@h users. Less still for the other projects combined. (Note: Careful use of words and stats there! I do not knowingly, or assume to speak, for everyone!!)

On those stats, looks like Berkeley have done a remarkably good transition between their phases of s@h for SETI.

Good work Berkeley!

Happy crunchin',
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I want to see SETI-II (advanced, or enhanced or whatever it's called) start over at 000,000

Angus,

For that to be workable, Berkeley would need to start the _enhanced SETI app. on a seperate project. A lot of people compete on "cross project" total BOINC credits. If Berkeley was to zero out the S@H/BOINC credit totals, that would anger a large number of people. For instance, S@H/BOINC is a little less than half of my cross-project total. Someone else might have done ALL their work on S@H/BOINC, and a third person might have done NO S@H/BOINC. If S@H/BOINC credits were zeroed out, some people would get screwed while others gain a LOT.

However, BOINC was designed to offer multiple types of work unit on the same project. This is one of the advantages for projects that use BOINC. Frankly, it would be silly in the extreme, not to mention cost-prohibitive, if S@H (or ANY other project) had to bring online a new array of servers/processes EVERY time they 'changed' the science app or the data format.

It is possible in the future that Berkeley may be offering SEVERAL different types of work units: Different 'scopes with different data formats, even MORE 'in-depth' analysis of various 'interesting areas', even totally different analysis methods (AstroPulse, for instance). All this can be run from ONE 'project'; the user requests work, and Berkeley sends a mix of whatever is available at the moment.

So, in short, zeroing out S@H/BOINC credit is NOT an option, nor is it a Good Thing!(tm).

Have a nice day.

So the newly arrived Classic folks are screwed every which way. Nice job.

If that's the way you want to see it.

You could equally argue that the folks crunching BOINC for a long time would lose their credits if a new "SETI-II" was launched.

There is probably nothing that can be done that can't be "spun" so that it is somehow designed to disenfranchise or discourage some groups.

Why not assume, just for a little while, that the folks behind the scene are at least trying to do the right thing for everyone to the best of their ability?

... because making everyone happy all the time is nearly impossible.

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After reading thru about half of this post, I find myself shacking my head in wonder. Am i the only one here to help in the "search" only? My machine has crunched numbers for both classic and boinc and i am just glad to be able to particapate. Thanks to all at Berkly and thank you for letting me help.
Happy Holidays and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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If that's the way you want to see it.

You could equally argue that the folks crunching BOINC for a long time would lose their credits if a new "SETI-II" was launched.

No more so than the Classic users who have "lost" their credit. It would be saved for posterity as part of the archived stats for SETI-1.

There is probably nothing that can be done that can't be "spun" so that it is somehow designed to disenfranchise or discourage some groups.

Why not assume, just for a little while, that the folks behind the scene are at least trying to do the right thing for everyone to the best of their ability?

... because making everyone happy all the time is nearly impossible.

Maybe because they didn't ASK the masses?

Would it have been so difficult to send a survey 2 years to all the SETI users asking questions about how they would prefer credits to be treated, instead of just making a decision either in a vacuum, or with teh limited input of the BOINC beta testers?

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I guess i find "credit" selfserving. Im just here to find ET

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Maybe because they didn't ASK the masses?

Would it have been so difficult to send a survey 2 years to all the SETI users asking questions about how they would prefer credits to be treated, instead of just making a decision either in a vacuum, or with teh limited input of the BOINC beta testers?

Possible future projects came back with:
We want something easy and meaningful.

SETI@Home community at the time said:
We want something fair.

The BOINC credit system is both.

It just had to break with the legacy of SETI@Home classic.

It wasn't going to be possible to make a system that was easy and meaningful to everyone and fair under the old system using just a workunit counter which would mean something different to each project.

The credits awarded per day can be used to gauge the overall size of the project.

Currently http://www.boincstats.com/ rates the number of TeraFlops SETI BOINC is doing at 320 based on the awarded credits per day. The same metric can be applied against all the projects and you can see how each project is growing. The project admins didn't have to do anything special to expose that number, they just had to export their stats with the default BOINC stat exporter.

The credit system is a direct result of feedback from the community with regards to SETI@home's variable workunit issues and discussion with other DC projects.

Just go through the classic forums on discussions of how fair are the sweet workunits that SetiQueue exposed and such.

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----- Rom
BOINC Development Team, U.C. Berkeley
My Blog

Agnus,
With all respect and merriment due to the holiday season, I must say this. I am at peace. I am at peace because everyone else is at peace. This is a happy holiday for everyone... except you. Haven't you noticed by now that you are the ONLY person left in this forum who is still saying that you are dissatisfied about the credit scoring? Haven't you noticed that you are the ONLY person who is blaming the creators of this project for your dissatisfaction? And haven't you noticed that you are the ONLY person in this forum who is thinking of nobody else but themselves? When you bring up the thought that the creators didn't let the masses speak, guess what, they did. The masses spoke and from the proof that lies in this forum alone, you are not part of the masses. Face it. You are out in the cold on this one. You are the ONLY person left in your so called "masses". When you talk about SETI being in a vacuum, everyone else (the vast majority) is in there with them. And the other projects are sheep following the SETI shepherd. They only work because they know what didn't work with SETI. Now in the spirit of the Holidays, we all stand around with arms open ready to accept you when you accept the project AS IS, no ifs, ands or buts. If you're not willing to do that, then please quit the project while YOU are ahead and clog this forum no more with YOUR banter about how YOU were mistreated. None of the rest feel this way. And if they do, they're respectful enough not to belittle the creators of the project in their own forum (yes, it was started by Matt, an original project creator). Please, this is not a hard concept to understand. And in the spirit of the holidays, just stop. And to all the rest of you guys, HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

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Matt

This is soooo not true - it is nothing to tick two counters when a WU is validated - one for WU count and one for BOINC points.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, i said they're not comparable.
Hence to do so would be pointless in the extreme.

And to use your argument- rip off all those that helped with the development of BOINC.

I disagree that it would be pointless. A WU is still a WU. And for those of us who don't care about BOINC credits (as great as they may be), upping the classic counter once for every WU completed still has relevance. It gives positive incentive to the classic users to keep going. I would start crunching for BOINC today if my WU credits were added to my classic account. It looks like the BOINKERS are afraid of the classic people eventually surpassing the BOINKERS credits in their own game. It would not bother me in the least to start two years into the BOINC project. I say BRING IT ON!

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I disagree that it would be pointless. A WU is still a WU. And for those of us who don't care about BOINC credits (as great as they may be), upping the classic counter once for every WU completed still has relevance.

No it doesn't, please read the earlier parts of this thread to see why.

It looks like the BOINKERS are afraid of the classic people eventually surpassing the BOINKERS credits in their own game. It would not bother me in the least to start two years into the BOINC project. I say BRING IT ON!

Bollocks (i've already worn out rubbish)...
Where do you think almost all of the "BOINKERS" came from? If you want to crunch, crunch. If not, then don't. But please don't endlessly keep moaning about nothing. All i can say is "Cry a river, build a bridge & get over it".

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Grant
Darwin NT

[.... Bollocks (i've already worn out rubbish)...
Where do you think almost all of the "BOINKERS" came from? If you want to crunch, crunch. If not, then don't. But please don't endlessly keep moaning about nothing. All i can say is "Cry a river, build a bridge & get over it".

The polite way to say this is "thirteen aye eleven ess" you have to write it down a short as possible with no spaces.

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[It looks like the BOINKERS are afraid of the classic people eventually surpassing the BOINKERS credits in their own game.

Actually, I doubt it ...

If you look closely, I stopped doing SETI@Home Classic well over 2 years ago, but still have a total score higher than most people. But I moved on.

It is always so interesting how much angst surrounds this topic. And especially the expressions of feeling like the entire design and intent is to single out some individual, group, or class. Even more interesting to me are the protestations of dedication to the project with absolutely no awareness that changes were in the winds. Three years without looking at the UCB site at all? The mind boggles.

I also do find this a LITTLE hard to credit with the long and furious fight waged here ...

Oh well, as I wrote in the FAQ lo these many years ago, no matter what was done, there will be plenty of people that are unhappy. Just as a point of order, I will be just as loud in complaint if they {b]did[/b] try a conversion ... sorry ... but *I* made the switch because now you have a pretty good assurance that my work is valid and *DOES* deserve credit. Don't contaminate my earnings from the improved system with suspect numbers from the past ...

Just an alternative point of view ... for those of us that see no problem with dual representation of earnings ... two projects, two scoring systems ... heck, goto WCG and they have "points" ... :)

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A WU is still a WU.

Actually... We are downloading Results and returning WUs. Unless your view of the right column of the Server status tells you different.

So a wU is not a Wu is not a WU.

Who of the persons still complaining about WUs versus Credits came in in 2001?
Or at least after the masses started in 1999. Did you complain then? Did you want everyone's WU status to be nulled so you could "fight" them on equal terms?

If you didn't then, why do it now?

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Let's not forget the goals of the Seti, and now the Bionic projects. We are all here to help solve some of life serious mysteries.

I have been a member of the Seti project for over 6 years now and I had accumulated somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 work units. Although it would be nice to see a record of that, it is not important, and I am not upset about loosing those work units. All that is important is that I, we, continue to help achieve the goals of the project.

Please remember, you are volunteering your computer's resources to help answer big questions. This is not a race, or a competition to see who can get the most WU's or credits, but a global effort to solve real world problems.

I am sure that the administrators of the project would appreciate if there were less complaining about personal losses and more input on how the system might be improved.

My 2 Cents

Let's not forget the goals of the Seti, and now the Bionic projects. We are all here to help solve some of life serious mysteries.

I have been a member of the Seti project for over 6 years now and I had accumulated somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 work units. Although it would be nice to see a record of that, it is not important, and I am not upset about loosing those work units. All that is important is that I, we, continue to help achieve the goals of the project.

Please remember, you are volunteering your computer's resources to help answer big questions. This is not a race, or a competition to see who can get the most WU's or credits, but a global effort to solve real world problems.

I am sure that the administrators of the project would appreciate if there were less complaining about personal losses and more input on how the system might be improved.

My 2 Cents

My first wu took 120 hours. Pentium 90, I believe. When I was broke, tried running it on 486, but the grass grew faster. :)

Ditto on the quote. It is for the science. I "lost" ten thousand WU, but gained lots in return. I tried just about every kind of computer on SETI and gained lots of experience keeping them going, day after day.

Looks like the WU thing is not going to go the way some folks want. Sorry if we cannot get past that. Real sorry. There is more I could say, but there are numbers to crunch. . . . . .

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I just don't understand, why is it so hard to comprehend that nobody are losing anything!

Nobody has lost any Classic credits or WU counts, they are stated on your account pages! You can even make a sig showing them under your posts! No, the Classic WU's are not stated under your avatar, just as our Seti credit is not stated under our avatars in other projects!

EDIT: I'll post the link to mundayweb's Classic sig site again: http://seti.mundayweb.com/

And Merry Christmass to everybody!

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Let's not forget the goals of the Seti, and now the Bionic projects. We are all here to help solve some of life serious mysteries.

I have been a member of the Seti project for over 6 years now and I had accumulated somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 work units. Although it would be nice to see a record of that, it is not important, and I am not upset about loosing those work units. All that is important is that I, we, continue to help achieve the goals of the project.

Please remember, you are volunteering your computer's resources to help answer big questions. This is not a race, or a competition to see who can get the most WU's or credits, but a global effort to solve real world problems.

I am sure that the administrators of the project would appreciate if there were less complaining about personal losses and more input on how the system might be improved.

My 2 Cents

Let's not forget the goals of the Seti, and now the Bionic projects. We are all here to help solve some of life serious mysteries.

I have been a member of the Seti project for over 6 years now and I had accumulated somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 work units. Although it would be nice to see a record of that, it is not important, and I am not upset about loosing those work units. All that is important is that I, we, continue to help achieve the goals of the project.

Please remember, you are volunteering your computer's resources to help answer big questions. This is not a race, or a competition to see who can get the most WU's or credits, but a global effort to solve real world problems.

I am sure that the administrators of the project would appreciate if there were less complaining about personal losses and more input on how the system might be improved.

My 2 Cents

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
OK, I'm a BOINC newbie and am naive about the process. I don't care very much about credits, competition, etc. However, I've always kept my comuter running 24/7 doing SETI@Home. Since switching to BOINC a few days ago, my computer has been idle- hardly doing anything for 2 days.

So why should I bother to keep to running? Can somebody gove me an explanation why my status has read "won't accept new work for 2 days? I want it to be productive, participate, make my little contribution, etc. I've been diliigent and dedicated for about 6 years. But my initial experience with BOINC has not been posiitive. Not yet, anyway.

I will hang in there as long as there is hope of things getting going. Maybe I should try the Climate Predictor to take up this slack time?

Steve

OK, I'm a BOINC newbie and am naive about the process. I don't care very much about credits, competition, etc. However, I've always kept my comuter running 24/7 doing SETI@Home. Since switching to BOINC a few days ago, my computer has been idle- hardly doing anything for 2 days.

So why should I bother to keep to running? Can somebody gove me an explanation why my status has read "won't accept new work for 2 days? I want it to be productive, participate, make my little contribution, etc. I've been diliigent and dedicated for about 6 years. But my initial experience with BOINC has not been posiitive. Not yet, anyway.

I will hang in there as long as there is hope of things getting going. Maybe I should try the Climate Predictor to take up this slack time?

Steve

Steve, your cpu last communicated with Seti about 21 hours ago and you have not downloaded anything to crunch. Since you don't have anything in a cache, try a "project reset". It may help also to have some descriptions from the message tab as to why it isn't working.

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Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....

OK, I'm a BOINC newbie and am naive about the process. I don't care very much about credits, competition, etc. However, I've always kept my comuter running 24/7 doing SETI@Home. Since switching to BOINC a few days ago, my computer has been idle- hardly doing anything for 2 days.

So why should I bother to keep to running? Can somebody gove me an explanation why my status has read "won't accept new work for 2 days? I want it to be productive, participate, make my little contribution, etc. I've been diliigent and dedicated for about 6 years. But my initial experience with BOINC has not been posiitive. Not yet, anyway.

This thread is getting very unweildy as it is, can I suggest you start a new thread on one of the Help Desk boards? In the post there, paste the last twenty or so entries from your Messages tab, so we can see exactly what BOINC is saying, and add any other information that might help, like what if any other projects you're working.

I will hang in there as long as there is hope of things getting going. Maybe I should try the Climate Predictor to take up this slack time?

Climate Prediction is a great project, if you're interested in climate prediction. But as a backup project, its work units are much too long, you can get caught with it needing to run to make deadline instead of the project you want to be running. A project with shorter work, like Rosetta or Protein Predictor, would let you fill in for a time without leaving leftover work that has to be done.

MJ

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